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View Poll Results: How did the Horn get to Roland?

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  • He himself picked it up.

    65 48.51%
  • It was "a present" or something from Gan.

    49 36.57%
  • He just found it over there.

    2 1.49%
  • Something else.

    11 8.21%
  • I have no idea.

    7 5.22%
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Thread: So the Horn... hey, let's stop for a sec

  1. #51
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    He picked up the Horn because he is changing. Progressing. For me it's absolutely clear, there is no question about it.
    The Horn is the symbol of the tired still changing soul of Roland.
    Just my two cents.
    BUT
    if he has to restart his quest from the desert how the blue hell can he pick it up? I haven't found or got an acceptable answer for this.

    Roland would have understood.

  2. #52
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    To me, it doesn't matter where he starts from. Even if he starts from the desert Letti, does that mean that Roland has no past, no childhood, no Jericho Hill? To me, it doesn't. It is entirely possible for all of this to be true and for him to still pick up the horn, regardless of if he starts at the desert, Pleasantville or Mejis.

  3. #53
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    It doesn't make a big difference if he starts from the beginning or from the desert but I can't help but looking for the logic behind it. Does it make any sense?
    This thing doesn't disturb me a lot it's not a big problem but I would like to understand it. That's all.

    Roland would have understood.

  4. #54
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Well, it does make sense to me. As much sense as a fictional quest in a fantasy world can. However, "time travel" and the idea of a repeat can understandably be difficult to understand and fit perfectly into a story.



    *I use the words time travel very loosely....

  5. #55
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    I think this series is absolutely logical. But there are some parts where my mind refuses to work.

    Roland would have understood.

  6. #56
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    I think this series is absolutely logical. But there are some parts where my mind refuses to work.
    there's no contradiction. The logic of the series (by definition of a series about the Tower) must surpass the logic we're accustomed to, because the story goes far beyond our experience (physical or mental)

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #57
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    there's no contradiction. The logic of the series (by definition of a series about the Tower) must surpass the logic we're accustomed to, because the story goes far beyond our experience (physical or mental)
    Perfectly put, my friend.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  8. #58
    Gunslinger Apprentice wildfire1290 is on a distinguished road wildfire1290's Avatar

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    I think SK just decided to start Roland back into the desert because that is where we(the readers) had started the tale with Roland. Mayhap when Roland then gets to the point where he is on the Topeka highway talking with his ka-tet, no matter who they are, about his trip with Susan, maybe the story would be different, and when he recalls about the memories on Jericho Hill, those memories could be different because, like Leti has said, he could be changing. He could very well remember the events of his past visits through many other loops, but before he was just too damn stubborn to change his ways, and now that he had learned a plenty on his last loop(the one we read) he had mayhap changed his ways.
    Not sure how much sense that really made, I'm just kinda rambling on at this point, but I guess that was my 2 cents.

  9. #59
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I do think that what happened to him at Jericho Hill changed with his being sent back. Maybe with each growth and with each loop his own history changes. Its a very interesting thought.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  10. #60
    Gunslinger Apprentice wildfire1290 is on a distinguished road wildfire1290's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    I do think that what happened to him at Jericho Hill changed with his being sent back. Maybe with each growth and with each loop his own history changes. Its a very interesting thought.
    And with you saying that, it now makes me think that, now that he has changed an event within the past loop, will he still have the same companions that he had had during the loop that we had read about.

  11. #61
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfire1290 View Post
    And with you saying that, it now makes me think that, now that he has changed an event within the past loop, will he still have the same companions that he had had during the loop that we had read about.
    I am currently just over half way through a re-read of The Gunslinger and he mentions off-handedly to Jake to "sit yourself" and or however Susannah says it and wonders to himself who it was that he knew that said that and couldn't remember. That little part makes me think that he does have the same ka-tet each time.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  12. #62
    Gunslinger Apprentice wildfire1290 is on a distinguished road wildfire1290's Avatar

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    Does he mention Susannah's name though? Because it could be the same personality types, just different names and faces. Maybe he was referring to the previous ka-tet that he had during the time when he was with Susan?

  13. #63
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    No he doesn't mention the name, I just said he couldn't remember who it was. It sounds an awful lot like Susannah though. My belief is that Eddie, Jake and Susannah are the core members of his original ka-tet continuosly coming back to him, drawn together because maybe they can't be broken.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  14. #64
    Gunslinger Apprentice wildfire1290 is on a distinguished road wildfire1290's Avatar

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    Oh the wonders Ka brings us.

  15. #65
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Anyway I don't think that there are so many people in our world who could work with Roland to become gubslingers. So there is no way to draw new people all the time.

    Roland would have understood.

  16. #66
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I found it -

    "The gunslinger smiled. "No you won't. Sit yourself, Jake." Whose phrase had that been? Some woman. Susan? He couldn't remember."
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  17. #67
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    I can't believe I never noticed that before. Huh!

  18. #68
    Gunslinger Apprentice wildfire1290 is on a distinguished road wildfire1290's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Anyway I don't think that there are so many people in our world who could work with Roland to become gubslingers. So there is no way to draw new people all the time.
    Maybe Ka choose different people to be gunslingers when Roland had to redo his loop?
    Opinion in politics, and politics, is an evil which has caused many a fellow to be hung while he’s still young and pretty.


  19. #69
    Life is beautiful LadyHitchhiker has a spectacular aura about LadyHitchhiker has a spectacular aura about LadyHitchhiker's Avatar

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    Being a weirdo with Jean and Letti?

  20. #70
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Liz, did you go off the deep-end?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  21. #71
    Servant of Gan Brainslinger will become famous soon enough Brainslinger will become famous soon enough Brainslinger's Avatar

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    I thought originally that maybe Gan gave the horn to Roland as a reward, and his memory was altered to think he picked it up. However, I also remember Roland stating in one book (it was either the Waste Lands, or Wizard and Glass) "The past is also in motion in my world, rearranging in different ways." (That's me paraphrasing.)

    So yes, I think it's quite possible his past was changed and he picked up the horn at Jericho hill, even though he wasn't sent back that far in his loop. Maybe Gan/The Tower/whatever reminded him to pick it up and he thought it was just his own thought. Or maybe the change in his personality from his growth also permeated back through his history too all the way.

    However, even if the horn was a reward, I don't take that to mean his progress in the previous loop was any less important. Ultimately I see the horn as being the positive side of being a Gunslinger. The horn provides a rallying call to ones men and therefore can be seen as a symbol of ka-tet, indicative of Roland's need for others to succeed, something he really learned in this loop.

    At the start of the Revised Gunslinger he ponders on having left the horn behind at Jericho hill, and then speculates "Surely it's the guns that are important?"

    True the guns were important. They saved his life and his ka-tet a number of times (whilst ending others) but in the end they are just machines of death, the negative part of being a gunslinger. That's why just leaving the gun at the foot of the Tower was not enough. He needed the symbol of the positive side, manifested by sounding his horn in the field of roses as well.

  22. #72
    Weedeater ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai has a brilliant future ladysai's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainslinger View Post
    However, even if the horn was a reward, I don't take that to mean his progress in the previous loop was any less important. Ultimately I see the horn as being the positive side of being a Gunslinger. The horn provides a rallying call to ones men and therefore can be seen as a symbol of ka-tet, indicative of Roland's need for others to succeed, something he really learned in this loop.

    At the start of the Revised Gunslinger he ponders on having left the horn behind at Jericho hill, and then speculates "Surely it's the guns that are important?"

    True the guns were important. They saved his life and his ka-tet a number of times (whilst ending others) but in the end they are just machines of death, the negative part of being a gunslinger. That's why just leaving the gun at the foot of the Tower was not enough. He needed the symbol of the positive side, manifested by sounding his horn in the field of roses as well.
    This is an excellent theory! I believe this makes perfect sense, and fits in well with all the dualities within the story.
    Good thinking, Brainslinger!

  23. #73
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    I have just added a poll to this thread.

    Roland would have understood.

  24. #74
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker View Post
    Being a weirdo with Jean and Letti?

    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Liz, did you go off the deep-end?
    she is referring to our posts on page 1

    I have voted... I see Nikolett has voted, too

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #75
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Absolutely.

    Roland would have understood.

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