The Crimson King *spoilers*

[osseolax28]

where did u here the red queen was Alice in wonderland? i always thought he was always evil. Forgive me but who is Tak? Sounds familiar but can't put my finger on it.

[19eye-rosecrow-gun]

Someone on this site said the Crimson Queen is his mother http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...read.php?t=710. She was a creature of the Prim (The darkness where here there be monsters, so to speak) and was impregnated by Arthur Eld. The Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland was a red haired evil entity to wanted Alice decapitated. Perhaps she is from the Prim? In any case, let's move on to Tak.

He is an evil entity from the novels Desperation and The Regulators, who's physical form is an orb of flashing lights (described by King as resembling lights from a bicycle reflector). He has telekinetic and psychic powers to control minds and matter. He is completely evil. I wonder if the crimson king and Tak are related, or if they are the same being in a way?

[osseolax28]

oh ya o.k., now i remember who Tak is. i knew he sounded familiar. I never thought about the Alice in wonderland thing. i guess it's possible since King took elements from the Wizard of Oz, LOTR, as well as others.

I don't think they are the same being. i think from what i've seen in the movie, Tak is more of an entity like Pennywise. But i haven't read the books yet so i could be completly wrong. But i'm sure they must be related in some way.

[Letti]

Hi there 19eye-rosecrow-gun, long days and pleasant nights.
I am absolutely sure that the Red Queen has no connection with Alice in Wonderland.

Anyway here we have a really great and exciting thread about the Crimson King: http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...ead.php?t=2430
I hope you will like it. In some days we will need to merge the two threads.

where did u here the red queen was Alice in wonderland? i always thought he was always evil. Forgive me but who is Tak? Sounds familiar but can't put my finger on it.

I don't think there is any connection but in the comics you can find tons of information about the CK (and many other chracters and things) you cannot find in the series. For example the mentioned one that the Crimson King is the son of the Crimson Queen.

[19eye-rosecrow-gun]

I have read most of the DT comics, and I remember him saying he was born of a mother who was a creature of the Prim. I just thought of the Red Queen from Alice in Wonderland because she is similar in a way, since she is also screaming crazy. I would have to backtrack and read again about him.

[Letti]

I have read most of the DT comics, and I remember him saying he was born of a mother who was a creature of the Prim. I just thought of the Red Queen from Alice in Wonderland because she is similar in a way, since she is also screaming crazy. I would have to backtrack and read again about him.

I don't think it's enough to think that they are the same.

[19eye-rosecrow-gun]

She is red, he is red. Her skin is white, his hair is white. They both rule as dominate powers, and they are insane. Completely.

Anyhow, I think the Crimson King is a funny guy.

Is there a post about Flagg? Im sure there must be. I really want to find a picture of him from The Stand comics. He is in his black hooded robe on a cliff with fire coming up about him. Its really cool.

[Letti]

She is red, he is red. Her skin is white, his hair is white. They both rule as dominate powers, and they are insane. Completely.

This way we can make many characters related.
I don't say you shouldn't think this way I just can't agree.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Well I was thinking the Crimson King and

Duma Key spoiler

Spoiler:

Perse from Duma Key might be related?

Just a thought.

[turtlex]

Okay... this logo look familiar to anyone ?!?



I surely will not be taking a Lindblad Expedition any time soon.

[Brice]

[Jean]

[Jon]

Thanks for the spoiler tag Lady Pornbot!!

[Letti]

Okay... this logo look familiar to anyone ?!?



I surely will not be taking a Lindblad Expedition any time soon.

If someone dares to tell me the Dark Tower is just a fiction I will show them this.

[turtlex]

Sincerely don't consider it a work of fiction at all.

[flaggwalkstheline]

Sincerely don't consider it a work of fiction at all.

Here here

[Ward007]

Hi I'm new here and have a question..

Just finish reading the series, and what really bug me is, why is the Crimson King so weak at the end of the final book? I mean his attack is mostly consist of throwing grenades at Roland and Patrick. Isn't he suppose to be god-like in term of power and abilities? What happen?

Thank you

[osseolax28]

In my mind and in my view of the series, the Crimson King was just a powerful entity. Unlike Flaggs glamour and tricks, The Crimson King's powers are real and not just mirages. But that doesn't mean he is God-like. The CK was ment to be an opposer of The Tower and Gan, but not equivelint to Gans powers.

Idk if my words are making sense. Basicaly, the Crimson King is a powerful demon, higher in the rankings of the tower (metaphorical tower) but there are much higher powers of evil and good than him. Plus, i think that since The Tower trapped him, his "powers" were useless.

If you have read or are going to read Insomnia, it will become much clearer than my jumbled ranting, since Insomnia expands on the "theory" of The Dark Towers universe and workings

[LovesSweetExile]

I think the fact he was trapped in the tower considerably lowered his powers, either that or the fact it was Rolands KA to reach the tower, not even the Crimson King can challenge KA, plus the tower is most likely protecting him.

[Letti]

He was as crazy as possible so even if he had power he couldn't use it anymore. He had no control over himself. I think that's why he behaved the way he did. He failed.
Anyway I never thought him God-like.

[arrawyn]

yeah, i just thought of him as a crazy old guy (and wizard) who might've been powerful at one time, but not anymore.

[candy]

Hi I'm new here and have a question..

Just finish reading the series, and what really bug me is, why is the Crimson King so weak at the end of the final book? I mean his attack is mostly consist of throwing grenades at Roland and Patrick. Isn't he suppose to be god-like in term of power and abilities? What happen?

Thank you

i agree, when i first read the book i was very disappointed in the crimson king story line. I also felt him weak and pathetic, esp after insomnia and the dark house. But having said that, on a re-read, i think its because he has gone insane after being locked in the tower, a lot of things that happen to roland and suzanne on the way to the tower hold this theory out. I think

[fernandito]

I agree with Candy. Having been near the Tower for so long must have had a considerable effect on both his mind and his physical state. Although I must admit that I was a little disappointed in the final battle too.

[Brainslinger]

I think it might be a number of factors.

The Dark Tower (DT7) spoilers:

Spoiler:

• I think when he commited suicide, becoming undead, he might have lost part of his power along with his life.
  
• There was also a suggestion in the book that stopping the breakers work on the Beam might have contributed to his loss of power too. I'm not sure I quite buy that though. I understand that preventing the Beams' damage means that it starts to heal, and that the strengthening of the Beams also means the Tower itself might increase in strength as these thing are all interlinked, but I don't think the King would loose that much power so soon as a result.
  
• Destruction of the Wizard's Rainbow. I'm not sure how much of the Red King's power is in the glasses. According to the comics they were created by the wizard Maerlyn from the prim itself, but as The Crimson King is a creature of the prim, at least in part, and Black Thirteen is often likened to his eye (although this might have largely been the imagination of the characters) it's quite possible they are linked.
  
• Imprisonment in the Tower. This has been mentioned already, and it makes sense to me that the Tower would create some kind of magic dampening field to negate the King's influence. It perhaps just goes to show how powerful he still is that he was able to use his ability to influence the song of the Roses to put Patrick to sleep. (Or that was allowed by the Tower to fulfil Ka. )

Black House Spoiler:

Spoiler:

The destruction of the Big Combination in Black House. It seems he draws a lot of his power from the evil things that happen throughout the multiverse. It makes a lot of sense to me that losing this was a major blow to his power.

Despite these things, I was rather disappointed with the depiction of the Crimson King as well. I understand that part of the reason was to show that the main power these beings have is in people's fear of them. That ultimately, if you stand and be true, they are weaker than they first appear (but not that weak surely?). But it was a shame nonetheless, and I think more explanation would have been welcome.

Spoiler:

I think part of the reason King took that route was also because The Crimson King and the powers of Discordia as a whole were portrayed as the mastermind(s) behind the arise of these big corporations and their emphasis on technology and the departure of magic and the prim from the world.* Thus, CK relies on a robot horse to transport him (where did that go by the way?) , and sneeches are his weapons of choice. So it might have been a more thematic choice on Stephen King's part rather than a loss of power... much as that makes little sense from an in-universe point of view.

*That is an interesting contradiction considering The Crimson King, Walter and Maerlyn owe much of their power and their very existence to the prim and it's creatures.

[Tik]

I think one of the key things to take into account is what we learn of the Crimson King's nature in the novel Black House. Mainly, that this being is (Black House spoilers here):

Spoiler:

simulataneously a god near the top of the Tower AND a being that exists in Mid-World in his Court and Castle. To quote an earlier post of mine, in Black House Parkus/Speedy states that the Crimson King is "pent in a cell at the top of the Tower, but he has another manifestation, every bit as real, and this lives in Can-tah Abbalah - the Court of the Crimson King." Like Jack says, the Red King is in "Two places at once."

The second manifestation is Los' the Red King, the creature Roland faced at the end of his quest. We know this because Los' was the one who dwelt in Le Casse Roi Russe, the court and castle of the King. As Jack says in Black House, the Crimson King "is presumably hanging out in his court (the part of him that isn't imprisoned in Speedys Dark Tower that is)."

What this would mean is that its only an avatar of the true Red King Roland meets at the end of DT7. And quite possible a significantly less powerful version too.

Just because its an avatar doesn't mean its weak though, far from it. We already learn what the Red King did to his castle of minions in DT7....he would be able to wipe Roland out with a thought if not for a few things (DT7 spoilers follow):

Spoiler:

Firstly, the Crimson King is trapped on a balcony by Gan. Recall what we learned of what a balcony of the Tower is:

"Reality is organic, reality is alive."

"In any case, theres this hypodermic hole in the living flesh of reality....this balcony on the flank of the Dark Tower."

"a balcony on the Tower; when we come here we're outside the Tower but still attached to the Tower."

"It's a place outside of time, outside of reality."

Basically, the King isn't technically part of reality anymore....he is trapped beyond it, the only connection being the doorway back into the Tower. The fact that the Crimson King could manage to send anything back through into reality and attack Roland (such as sneetches) shows how powerful the King could be.

Secondly, the fact that when the last fight took place the two characters were miles from each other - the Crimson King kept Roland at bay. They were 5 miles apart!