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Thread: Did Jake know about the fall? How could he?

  1. #26
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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  2. #27
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    So, I know this is off topic but was the cat dead or alive?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  3. #28
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    i always assumed it was a hypothetical and that no real kitties were harmed in the formulation of the theory. if he really did it, i have no idea. i do love joke's about changing an outcome through observation though

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    i always assumed it was a hypothetical and that no real kitties were harmed in the formulation of the theory. if he really did it, i have no idea. i do love joke's about changing an outcome through observation though

    I'm pretty sure he didn't actually do it.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  5. #30
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Hmmm...I'm not sure its solved that easily for me.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  6. #31
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    nope, that's the answer, accept it.

  7. #32
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    First time I've been in this thread...and lo and behold!...everything I was going to say has been said by Jayson and Brice

  8. #33
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    shocking lisa, just shocking

  9. #34
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I see...so the common belief is that the "history" behind when they drew Jake is not relevant because the loop was closed.

    Basically that it doesn't matter?
    Last edited by Letti; 03-08-2008 at 02:52 AM. Reason: I vanished my own spoiler tags because I realised there wasn't spoiler here.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  10. #35
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I see...so the common belief is that the "history" behind when they drew Jake is not relevant because the loop was closed.

    Basically that it doesn't matter?
    not in my estimation... maybe it didn't "matter" in that jake still lived, but it still mattered bc he and Roland both remember the droppage so it goes to the trust they have to re-establish. jake has to learn to trust roland with his life all over again bc he remembers that once he was betrayed to his "death" even if he didn't die for keeps.

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    So no body under the mountains right?
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.
    It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet

    I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis

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    Gunslinger Apprentice aurora is on a distinguished road aurora's Avatar

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    I have to also agree with what has already been said and add that is is only possible because Jake was not from Keystone Earth. If he had then you could not have two Jake time lines since time only runs forward and once lost to/from the Keystone world its always lost.

    As for a body under the mountain, I 'think' the answer is no, but I need to meditate on that one a bit longer as there is a way, theoretically speaking that there is a body that was Jakes but is not Jake. Theres a concept called conifold transitions that 'may' allow strings (as in String theory in physics) to be protected from influencing the dimensions around them as they collapse through a base dimension point, thus prevent a rip in dimensional sub-spaces. Now extend the possibility of such an event happening through a process Einstein loved to term 'spookiness' in which a single atom can be in two places with the same states at the same time. Now expand the whole thing up to two Jakes existing at one time, in order to prevent a temporal rip could a conifold transition take place around the Jake under the mountain to prevent the divergent time lines of another Jake in the same dimensional multi-verse. Hmm maybe I'll change my dissertation to this instead!

  14. #39
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.
    Would that include the meeting at the Gogatha?
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  15. #40
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    So no body under the mountains right?
    i still don't know how that worked metaphysically but if i had to guess, probably not.

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    I wouldn't advice anyone to go hunting for it anyway, or for any other conclusive artefacts of time loop aftermath. Paradox may grow exponentially, and I am afraid nobody can know what it might lead to.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
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    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. #42
    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.
    Would that include the meeting at the Gogatha?
    Interesting.
    It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet

    I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis

  18. #43
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    shocking lisa, just shocking
    I know I was just stunned by this revelation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I see...so the common belief is that the "history" behind when they drew Jake is not relevant because the loop was closed.

    Basically that it doesn't matter?
    Everything is always relevant....even if it isn't. It all matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    So no body under the mountains right?

    There is absolutely a body under the mountains in my estimation and it IS Jake's.

    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.
    Well, it still both did and didn't happen I believe. It is just useless information to the continuance of the story beyond the bond and trust issues between Roland and Jake.

    Quote Originally Posted by aurora View Post
    I have to also agree with what has already been said and add that is is only possible because Jake was not from Keystone Earth. If he had then you could not have two Jake time lines since time only runs forward and once lost to/from the Keystone world its always lost.
    I don't think this disallows Jake being from Keystone Earth. Remember Roland is as confused by the two time lines as Jake is in his own world. Even though time and space in Roland's world are moving on there is nothing to my recollection to indicate that time runs in any way, but forward. If the two time lines can exist in Roland's world I don't see why they can't in Jake's. Really the two timelines exist only in their memories for our purposes right here and are only awaiting resolution to sorta' negate one or the other at this point in the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by aurora View Post
    As for a body under the mountain, I 'think' the answer is no, but I need to meditate on that one a bit longer as there is a way, theoretically speaking that there is a body that was Jakes but is not Jake. Theres a concept called conifold transitions that 'may' allow strings (as in String theory in physics) to be protected from influencing the dimensions around them as they collapse through a base dimension point, thus prevent a rip in dimensional sub-spaces. Now extend the possibility of such an event happening through a process Einstein loved to term 'spookiness' in which a single atom can be in two places with the same states at the same time. Now expand the whole thing up to two Jakes existing at one time, in order to prevent a temporal rip could a conifold transition take place around the Jake under the mountain to prevent the divergent time lines of another Jake in the same dimensional multi-verse. Hmm maybe I'll change my dissertation to this instead!
    Why might there be a temporal rip at all caused by Jake existing at two places at the same time? I'll admit the concept of conifold transition is new to me so maybe I'm missing something, but I see no need for any sort of temporal rip in dimensions. Or then...perhaps that's precisely what the doors and todash space are in our terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT
    Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.

    Which never happened cause he knew no Jake to go looking for in New York because he never met him at a way station???

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Would that include the meeting at the Gogatha?
    Well, if he never met Jake at the way station then he never sacrificed him at Walter's bidding which was Walter's price for the palaver. Maybe he also never found doorways on a beach? Or saved a tower? Maybe he's still back at Brown's? Or never left the desert?


    I think it all happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    So no body under the mountains right?
    i still don't know how that worked metaphysically but if i had to guess, probably not.
    ...and here is where our opinions seperate my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I wouldn't advice anyone to go hunting for it anyway, or for any other conclusive artefacts of time loop aftermath. Paradox may grow exponentially, and I am afraid nobody can know what it might lead to.

    wise words.


    Spoiler:
    ,but down the rabbit hole we go Alice.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  19. #44
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    like i said brice, it's no more than a guess when it comes to the body. i'm not at all sure how it worked with jake's deaths and where the bodies go [that's why i brought up callahan earlier]. there very well could be dead jake under the mountains. i say it's another cat and by looking for it we change the outcome.

  20. #45
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    like i said brice, it's no more than a guess when it comes to the body. i'm not at all sure how it worked with jake's deaths and where the bodies go [that's why i brought up callahan earlier]. there very well could be dead jake under the mountains. i say it's another cat and by looking for it we change the outcome.
    Or when we look it isn't there and when we don't it is?


    I'm not sure either. I'm just enjoying looking at it from different angles.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  21. #46
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Same here--is truly fascinating.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  22. #47
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    It really is. I love that there are so many threads that force you to think in new ways around here.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  23. #48
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    glad you started this one matt, this has been a good one for sure

  24. #49
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Matt gives good thread.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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