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Thread: Roland: Enemy Of The White And Gan? *Spoilers for the whole series*

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    :radioactive: Roland: Enemy Of The White And Gan? *Spoilers for the whole series*

    Okay, this one can go alot of different directions so rather than explain myself I'm just gonna' see where it goes for now based solely on the thread title.

    It could be interesting...controversial...silly...etcetera.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Let me be the first to say:

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    Super Saiyan Mark is on a distinguished road Mark's Avatar

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    He fought so desperatly for The White though, i don't see how he can be the enemy of it...
    2:45 am- 11th February 2008- I Finished The Dark Tower

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark88880 View Post
    He fought so desperatly for The White though, i don't see how he can be the enemy of it...
    If someone can be their own worst enemy can't they be the enemy of their own goals also?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  5. #5
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    Let me be the first to say:

    Believe me; I was specifically thinking of you Monte when I chose the exact title. I KNEW you'd love it.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Well...I'll start by saying that I believe he can be the enemy of Gan without being the enemy of The White. Roland being the enemy of Gan doesn't bother me...

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    So are you suggesting Gan could be enemy to The White?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    So are you suggesting Gan could be enemy to The White?
    No. I'm only suggesting it is possible to be for The White and not for Gan. I don't think Gan is anyone's enemy.

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Well, why not then?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  10. #10
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    whenever there's an organized force that usurps the right to fight for any good cause - and such is the case with the gunslingers and the white - they end up perverting the idea and spilling the same amount, if not more (historically, alas, I am afraid I have to say more), of blood as is spilled for a bad cause. Gunslinging was bound to go against the white, and Roland, of course, is a gunslinger.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Hmmm, interesting point Jean.
    I guess how we each define The White is important in how we might go about discussing/arguing this interesting topic.

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Well, why not then?
    Gan is no one's enemy because I'd like to think he/she is a silent, impartial observer.

    Damn....I keep thinking this over and my thought are running over one another.

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Well, why not then?
    Gan is no one's enemy because I'd like to think he/she is a silent, impartial observer.

    Damn....I keep thinking this over and my thought are running over one another.

    Well, I think that's a valid argument for Gan having no enemies from Gan's perspective, but someone else can still be Gan's enemy from their own.

    Edit: Oh, and that's exactly what they're supposed to do. It'll make for interesting conversation.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Well, why not then?
    Gan is no one's enemy because I'd like to think he/she is a silent, impartial observer.

    Damn....I keep thinking this over and my thought are running over one another.

    Well, I think that's a valid argument for Gan having no enemies from Gan's perspective, but someone else can still be Gan's enemy from their own.
    I couldn't agree more. Gan keeps none but I'm sure plenty hold him/her in such regard.

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Well, our enemies from our own perspectives are our enemies...the only ones that really matter, aren't they? It is at least legitimately possible to be Gan's enemy if one believes it. I doubt you'd argue that the CK was Gan's enemy would you?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    No, CK believed Gan was his enemy but I do not think Gan thought the CK was his. Again I say damn, that is confusing.

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    If I think you are my enemy (just an example) and work against you constantly are you not my enemy irregardless of how you feel?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  18. #18
    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    But if I think you are my friend, regardless if you are working against me in every way, isn't that different?

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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    I have another question:
    If Roland is an enemy of The White, who is he for/with? Hmmm.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Okay.
    Here is my shot.
    Even if Roland is his own enemy as well, he is not the enemy of the White or Gan.
    First of all because we all are our own enemies, too. Some people are really good at ruining themselves others can avoid it quite well. But we all make mistakes and we all ruin our own faith.
    Enemy is a very strong harsh word with a very deep meaning. Of course if Roland would like to serve the White but spoils his own faith he will make no good to the White still he will not hurt it either. He will not become an enemy. It's possible that he won't serve it well... or he won't reach everything he could... but he will still be a soldier /not a perfect one/ of the White.
    Roland is fighting with himself to be able to serve the White.

    Maybe I am not convicing. Whenever I feel I can describe my view better I will, my friends.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    No...it makes you confused. If you think I am your friend and I think you are my enemy I believe the negative effectively trumps the positive. I mean you can disillusion yourself that I'm your friend in that situation, but if I'm consistently working against you do you think I'm your friend or enemy from an impartial observer's perspective.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  22. #22
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    I have another question:
    If Roland is an enemy of The White, who is he for/with? Hmmm.
    Why would he need to be for or against anyone, but hisself?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The White! MonteGss is on a distinguished road MonteGss's Avatar

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    I guess you're right Brice, I had not thought of it that way.
    Let me ponder this some...

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I think it might be interesting to discuss what gives Gan pleasure i.e. how is he existentially viable? If he is the progenitor of the tower cycle, and the cycle is contingent upon Roland, then I don't see how Roland could be his enemy. Of course, this means that CK and the black also cease to be his enemies in a sense...I mean we have discussed this before in other threads. If Gan's nature is dualistic, then I think the tower is a perfect emodiment because it (the tower) is threatened and preserved continually. This seems like a question about theodicy (justification for the problem of evil) i.e. salvation/redemption is contingent upon the existence of evil.

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    If Gan's nature is dualistic, then I think the tower is a perfect emodiment because it (the tower) is threatened and preserved continually.
    well somebody finally seems to get my "why Roland NEVER stops looping" interpretation of things. thanks Ryan!

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