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Thread: The children...

  1. #51
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    Conversely though, I do think that people sometimes read too much into certain works. I hated having to analyse paintings when I studied art...or poetry when I was likewise studying English Lit, because it detracted something from it for me. As an artist myself, I often paint on the whim of a particular emotion, so there is meaning to me to what I've painted - and someone else might try and read a whole lot more into it - but I would personally feel that they were trying to turn something simple, and enjoyable because of it's simplicity, into something complicated that made it crass or conceited somehow.
    That was pretty much where I was going with my post. Any number of works of art can be interpreted to mean any number of things by individuals.

    Now, whether that is a positive or a negative goes to the standard question of where is the art, in the process or the product? I believe it's both, in the process for the artists, but just as much in the product for the individual (reader in the case of King's work). Like I said earlier, unless the artist specifically confirms somewhere that "this piece of art is about ________" then that blank doesn't necessarily represent anything. We can fill in the blank however we want, but we can't reasonably expect everyone else will see it precisely the same way, and we definitely can't state these interpretations as facts. Making the comparisons can be a fun intellectual challenge, but I don't think any of us knows what any artist really "means" with their work unless they state it outright.

    For me it's hard not to read things into everything, but I also remind myself that it's not much more than an intellectual exercise than it is getting at the supposed 'reality' of something so subjective, which is to say, I agree with Lisa.

    So how far off topic am I now?

    "Won't somebody please think of the children!?!" - Helen Lovejoy

  2. #52
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    About as off topic as I've taken the thread in the first place

  3. #53
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    I suppose we could discuss different theories on what the children of the Callas may represent symbolically. I contend Tian Jaffords opened that door with his right pretty speech about the tree and its wood, so using the children as a metaphor is fair game.

  4. #54
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Like I said earlier, unless the artist specifically confirms somewhere that "this piece of art is about ________" then that blank doesn't necessarily represent anything.
    Actually, I don't even think if he does confirm it it would mean anything; a work of literature is a product of interaciton between the text and the reader, and once the author writes "The End", there's nothing he can do to influence this process; but you were right, we're drifting further and further off... The question of whether what the author says or thinks or writes outside a finished piece has any bearing on the meaning of the piece is itself very interesting (I know my position is extreme), and certainly requires a separate thread - as I already hinted when people tried to argue at me with another "King said so himself".

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #55
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    The question of whether what the author says or thinks or writes outside a finished piece has any bearing on the meaning of the piece is itself very interesting (I know my position is extreme), and certainly requires a separate thread - as I already hinted when people tried to argue at me with another "King said so himself".
    Now that would be an interesting thread indeed. I think most could guess where I stand on that one.

  6. #56
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Like I said earlier, unless the artist specifically confirms somewhere that "this piece of art is about ________" then that blank doesn't necessarily represent anything.
    Actually, I don't even think if he does confirm it it would mean anything; a work of literature is a product of interaciton between the text and the reader, and once the author writes "The End", there's nothing he can do to influence this process; but you were right, we're drifting further and further off... The question of whether what the author says or thinks or writes outside a finished piece has any bearing on the meaning of the piece is itself very interesting (I know my position is extreme), and certainly requires a separate thread - as I already hinted when people tried to argue at me with another "King said so himself".
    Start the thread and I'll keep arguing with you.

  7. #57
    Gunslinger Apprentice Whitey Appleseed is on a distinguished road Whitey Appleseed's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I mean, what you're trying to say is - you can read something extra into everything. And what I'm saying is - that may be, but there isn't always any need to do so.
    And I reply, please Darkthoughts, please let me (and others) speculate to our hearts content about symbology, metaphors, the magic of words and their multiple connotations. The magic that is King is just that, magic, because one can read multiple connotations in the product. No, we don't need to do that, and the product is probably better if the artist wasn't trying to create some long drawn out allegory, and maybe along the lines of what Jean is saying...I think...and mayhap King himself...something along the lines of him not having any control over it...that's wrong, he does have control.

    Sorry, I lost my train of thought there...






    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post

    Do you see my point? You're suggesting that I'm shallow or near sighted for not wanting to read meaning into every little detail, but I'm saying that somethings can quite rightfully be appreciated for simply being/appearing to be what they are, even though I am fully aware of the details.
    Certainly, Darkthoughts. I got your point the first time you made it. I apologize for not acknowledging that I got your point...I realize at times I come across as a real numbskull but give me a little credit.

    I got your point back around the time I wrote something about not having a dog in this fight. All I wanted to do was to talk about the possibilities and the multiple connotations available--that's what makes King stories appealing to me. Sure, first time through, I read for the pure enjoyment of the story. They're great stories. Cry yer pardon, and all who read this, if I happen to be that way. Gawd no I'm not suggesting you're shallow, or near-sighted for not wanting to read meaning into every little detail--I don't read meaning into every little detail.

    What was this thread about? Oh yeah, the children. I imagine the powers that be know what they're doing and can finesse the thread or work their magic.

    What I do object to, however, is someone telling me I'm reading something into every little detail or suggesting that talking about it confuses the issue, when they've used the same language to talk about some detail...ubermensch...yeah, but everyone knows that and all the connotations of that...King used the word uberstory in the Coda section of SOS...and I like how he says he repudiates something...Dis...or something...

    So, anyway, for not having a dog in this fight--that the children of the callaa could or couldn't be read as a metaphor for something--I haven't made that argument, nor have I stated it as fact--anyway, the dog fights, for what their worth, we'd sure covered all the bases...or not...shrug...dunno.

    Spit if you want to know.

  8. #58
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    Spit if you want to know?

    Ok, cool. Divine what you will if it makes you happy

  9. #59
    Gunslinger Apprentice AIMB will become famous soon enough AIMB's Avatar

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    Easier than having to get rid of the bodies themselves.

  10. #60
    John F. Kennedy grobblewobble will become famous soon enough

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    They did it because otherwise the readers would have had to miss the horror of formerly normal kids turned into braindead giants.

    Seriously though, I do like the explanation Jean gave in another thread:

    I think it's because no inhuman ruling wants to pose as such. Be it fascism or communism, or any other dragon demanding human sacrifices, the ideology never says, "we're tyrants, we'll rape and rob you daily because such is our desire." Everything is done for some good aim, and it is always emphasised that no excessive cruelty is ever imposed. Children are brought back, after all. We don't want anything that doesn't belong to us. We have used the kids for the sake of the Greater Good you're all unable to understand, and now here they are, you can have them, we're no robbers.
    (Sorry to quote that bit twice, but it really was a brilliant post imo.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brainslinger View Post
    I wondered if the common occurence of twins was due to genetic manipulation by the Crimson King's followers too. After all they're not a common occurence in that world either. Only that arc.
    Moreover, it is mentioned somewhere (was it in the conversation with granddaddy?) that it didn't use to be like that, that in the time before the wolves came, twins were the exception. So it's more or less implied that there was some sort of spell at work.

  11. #61
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    grobble... bears feel honored... no, double honored

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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