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  1. #1
    Manni Folken zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig's Avatar

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    Hi All.

    So, I'm not quite ready to make an official announcement for the next custom-bound book, however, I have a dilemma which I'd like your opinion on. If I execute this one with the complete vision I have for it, it will not be cheap, and will cost more than Firestarter. It will be amazing, but costly. It involves the work of 4 different artisans, each with a diffetent specialty. I am so excited about this one.

    So anyway, I've been thinking it through, and each time I consider scrapping some of the ideas, I just can't bring myself to do it because I really want to produce it in the way I have envisioned.

    This morning, I came up with a possible solution. I offer two versions. Without revealing too much at this stage, what I have planned is a full leather binding. One way to cut costs would be to offer a 2nd version that will be quarter bound in leather (so spine in leather, front and back boards in paper, or possibly another non-leather material.) Still exquisite and elegant, but with the benefit of not being as costly as full leather.

    I'm thinking it may be helpful to provide a ballpark price, and perhaps we can see how many of you would be willing to invest that for the higher priced version. Right now it's shaking out at somewhere between $1,200 and $1,500. I don't have a ballpark on the lower priced version yet. As usual, there would be interest-free payment terms. I could potentially even extend those over a longer period for the more costly version.

    In my heart of hearts, I do not want to scrap my initial vision, but I think the idea of offering two versions, at two price points, may be the best solution. What do you all think?

  2. #2
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    Paul... I have seen the work your doing thus far. I would be voting... DO WHAT YOUR VISION IS. It will no doubt be one for the books. Period.
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    I don't want you to scrap your original vision. I don't like the idea of two different priced versions. That being said, I would need payments less than $250 if the book goes over $1200.

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    IMHO - If you are keeping to the same limitation as before (Ie all Lettered) Don't do the 2 versions. Stick with the one. For the completists it would actually work out cheaper (they dont need to buy both!) and the book remains consistent across all letters.

    Would it be cheaper to buy some calves and raise the leather yourself?
    "A real limited edition, far from being an expensive autograph stapled to a novel, is a treasure. And like all treasures do, it transforms the responsible owner into a caretaker, and being a caretaker of something as fragile and easily destroyed as ideas and images is not a bad thing but a good one...and so is the re-evaluation of what books are and what they do that necessarily follows." - Stephen King

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroppygoblin View Post
    IMHO - If you are keeping to the same limitation as before (Ie all Lettered) Don't do the 2 versions. Stick with the one. For the completists it would actually work out cheaper (they dont need to buy both!) and the book remains consistent across all letters.

    Would it be cheaper to buy some calves and raise the leather yourself?
    I agree.
    Go with your vision.

  6. #6
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    My guess is that you would probably be unhappy with anything less than your original vision, so I would vote for that - as long as it doesn't lead you to financial ruin. Maybe get a deposit from interested intenders and then just go with a limitation that only includes the number of confirmed orders (should it be less than 26).
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  7. #7
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    Starting to sound like Firestarter will be my last rebound book purchase.

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    Based on what you've created so far, I vote for the full vision.


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    I am inclined to agree with everyone else about producing just one. While it pains me a little to say that because I don't think I'll be able to get this I believe your original vision and the one that you truly want to do should be the one that gets done. Put all of your love and care into one.
    If it's the one you hinted at before than I can't wait to see the details and who the artists are! I'm going to hold out and see if I can swing it somehow but it all depends.....

  10. #10
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    Hold true to your vision, and only offer one edition.
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    VISION

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    Paul, I vote for one edition and I think you should try to achieve your vision but I also have to add that $1500 + is steep
    for a re-bound book, in my opinion. I adore the Eyes of the Dragon, of course I haven't seen Firestarter yet, but I am hard pressed
    to imagine a book priced 3x or more better than the EOTD. There may be a point where the costs of additional artisans exceeds the overall presentation.
    As a hard core completist it is getting tougher by the year with so many editions, now, get King to sign it and it will be worth every penny!
    You know I love your work, just my 2 cents worth of thoughts.
    -K

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
    Paul, I vote for one edition and I think you should try to achieve your vision but I also have to add that $1500 + is steep
    for a re-bound book, in my opinion. I adore the Eyes of the Dragon, of course I haven't seen Firestarter yet, but I am hard pressed
    to imagine a book priced 3x or more better than the EOTD. There may be a point where the costs of additional artisans exceeds the overall presentation.
    As a hard core completist it is getting tougher by the year with so many editions, now, get King to sign it and it will be worth every penny!
    You know I love your work, just my 2 cents worth of thoughts.
    -K

    VERY good point.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
    Paul, I vote for one edition and I think you should try to achieve your vision but I also have to add that $1500 + is steep
    for a re-bound book, in my opinion. I adore the Eyes of the Dragon, of course I haven't seen Firestarter yet, but I am hard pressed
    to imagine a book priced 3x or more better than the EOTD. There may be a point where the costs of additional artisans exceeds the overall presentation.
    As a hard core completist it is getting tougher by the year with so many editions, now, get King to sign it and it will be worth every penny!
    You know I love your work, just my 2 cents worth of thoughts.
    -K

    Absolutely!

  15. #15
    Manni Folken zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig's Avatar

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    Thanks for all the comments everyone. Looks like we'll be going with the original plan. Believe me, I always do my best to keep costs down, and when I started adding this one up, well, I hesitated and then thought I'd get your opinions. The fact that there are 4 main 'arts' involved here, does not add significantly to costs. I mean, simply because there are 4 people. The contribution of one of those is so insignificant in terms of added cost, that I am not even including that in the pricing. There are generally two areas which take up the lion's share. One of those, I am absolutely not compromising on because it is just too wild, too cool, and too unique to not do; and the only other major cost factor, which is the binding itself, was the only place I could go to save costs...

    Anyway, with these custom bound projects, the work involved is immense. Hundreds of accumulated hours to manage, and co-ordinate all the moving parts. I am doing a teaser video (does not add to the cost) and that will be ready soon, and then I'll make a more official announcement. Working on the prototype now. I want to tell you more, but I'm gonna keep my mouth shut for the moment.

    Oh, and yes, getting Mr. King to sign these would sure be cool, but that ain't gonna happen y'all.

    Peace...

  16. #16
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    You know I adore everything you have done and I have bought it all...

    That said, when I saw the price for Firestarter, I hesitated. Not due to the price vs value, but just price overall and worries that each production would cost more and more and is this really something I am going to be able to afford long term. Without the payment plans, I just wouldn't be able to do it and if there comes a day I have to pass due to price or my own circumstances I will feel compelled to sell my existing set to someone who can complete the set, as it should be. I so badly want to have the complete letter G of every Dragon Rebound/Suntup Press production and will do everything I can to continue for as long as I can. Realistically, I have a kid starting college in a year, another two years later, and the last three years after that. Who knows if I have to bow out at some point due to my own finances...we'll see.

    That said, here are my own personal needs in order to continue to stay all in the Zelig master productions game:
    • payment plans of less than $250/month
    • the next production's payment plan doesn't overlap with an existing payment plan, aka if I am still paying on a rebound book and you start taking orders on an art portfolio where I would be paying two separate payment plans at once.

    So essentially if you can keep my cost to $250/month (I am not including the covers in this since the cost is more manageable and there is a product with each payment) I can swing it.

    Someday when the kids college is paid for and they are all on their own (or mostly at least) I will be able to do this stuff without a blink (God willing)...I am just not there yet

    So...all of that said...seriously, you do you Paul. What you are doing is incredible and something really special.

  17. #17
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    I hear you James... thanks for the comments. I'm hoping for the one after this to come down in price. I don't want each one to start costing more than the previous. Right now, it has just worked out that way, but I don't see it as a trend. Keeping the payments down is important to me. Anyway, back at it.

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    A little late to the party, but I say absolutely go with your vision. Absolute no doubter.

  19. #19
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    I'm going to differ with everyone just a little bit. Vision is one thing, but running a successful business endeavor is another. You absolutely must create what you want to create, but must keep in mind the business aspect of it all, especially because you are a small business with a very limited customer base. Take a look at your sales and see how they progressed for the different editions. Was EOTD a complete sellout in XX amount of days versus Firestarter in XX amount of days? Was the initial sellout due to the novelty of the item? How many return customers did you have? How many did you lose? For those who bought EOTD but not have Firestarter, were you able to ascertain the reason? (Title, Style, Cost, Value, Personal Finances, etc.) Would your customer base be willing and able to go $1.2K - $1.5K for a rebound? If the answer to that is no, would they be willing to skip one volume and then continue on later, or having broken the sequence would they just say forget it for other volumes? That would affect long term sales, which are necessary to keeping the business and vision going.

    So ... you need a happy medium. UNLESS ... you do something a little different, like presell and only create the actual number of books that are ordered, like CD does for some of their limited editions. This would limit your risk. Or do an "Out of Series" publication, so if the owner of letter T or Z or whatever can't do the $1.5K, he/she could skip it, not miss out, and still be on board for the rest of the normal lettered series. Instead of letters, you could always do something else like numbers or be really different and do a small Remarque of a character or something from the story (it would be cool to say instead of "I have letter X", rather "I have The Man in Black".

    That's my 5 cents! Whatever you do, it will be welcomed and coveted.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by George at C-Springs View Post
    I'm going to differ with everyone just a little bit. Vision is one thing, but running a successful business endeavor is another. You absolutely must create what you want to create, but must keep in mind the business aspect of it all, especially because you are a small business with a very limited customer base. Take a look at your sales and see how they progressed for the different editions. Was EOTD a complete sellout in XX amount of days versus Firestarter in XX amount of days? Was the initial sellout due to the novelty of the item? How many return customers did you have? How many did you lose? For those who bought EOTD but not have Firestarter, were you able to ascertain the reason? (Title, Style, Cost, Value, Personal Finances, etc.) Would your customer base be willing and able to go $1.2K - $1.5K for a rebound? If the answer to that is no, would they be willing to skip one volume and then continue on later, or having broken the sequence would they just say forget it for other volumes? That would affect long term sales, which are necessary to keeping the business and vision going.

    So ... you need a happy medium. UNLESS ... you do something a little different, like presell and only create the actual number of books that are ordered, like CD does for some of their limited editions. This would limit your risk. Or do an "Out of Series" publication, so if the owner of letter T or Z or whatever can't do the $1.5K, he/she could skip it, not miss out, and still be on board for the rest of the normal lettered series. Instead of letters, you could always do something else like numbers or be really different and do a small Remarque of a character or something from the story (it would be cool to say instead of "I have letter X", rather "I have The Man in Black".

    That's my 5 cents! Whatever you do, it will be welcomed and coveted.
    I agree with pretty much everything George said.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zelig View Post
    Thanks for all the comments everyone. Looks like we'll be going with the original plan. Believe me, I always do my best to keep costs down, and when I started adding this one up, well, I hesitated and then thought I'd get your opinions. The fact that there are 4 main 'arts' involved here, does not add significantly to costs. I mean, simply because there are 4 people. The contribution of one of those is so insignificant in terms of added cost, that I am not even including that in the pricing. There are generally two areas which take up the lion's share. One of those, I am absolutely not compromising on because it is just too wild, too cool, and too unique to not do; and the only other major cost factor, which is the binding itself, was the only place I could go to save costs...

    Anyway, with these custom bound projects, the work involved is immense. Hundreds of accumulated hours to manage, and co-ordinate all the moving parts. I am doing a teaser video (does not add to the cost) and that will be ready soon, and then I'll make a more official announcement. Working on the prototype now. I want to tell you more, but I'm gonna keep my mouth shut for the moment.

    Oh, and yes, getting Mr. King to sign these would sure be cool, but that ain't gonna happen y'all.

    Peace...
    As for me....in for a penny,in for a pound.

  22. #22
    Manni Folken zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig has much to be proud of zelig's Avatar

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    Official Teaser video drops Friday. Don't miss it!


  23. #23
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    As always I wont be able to afford it, but I am really intrigued about the design that this book will have !
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  24. #24
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    At first I thought, with the idea of four artists, that we were going to see another rebound version of Different Seasons. However, if your pic there is the teaser, anything with a red balloon is well, It. Not a bad idea given the current hype and rate of things with the upcoming adaptation. Whatever it is I'm happy to see what it will be. I agree with the gang, go with your vision.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zelig View Post
    Official Teaser video drops Friday. Don't miss it!

    Waiting...

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