Suntup Editions

[WeDealInLead]

The question doesn't need to be tough. Look at it from a King collector's perspective and just imagine how much different everyone's collections (on here at least) would be different if the first published book determined the ENTIRETY of a publisher's customer base. How many 'Salem's Lot (Centipede) owners own previous books Jared did? Or on a bigger scale, think about all the King books Cemetery Dance published and think how many collections would be different if people had to have bought CD #1? Or not being able to get The Green Mile from Subterranean? Or not being able to get a Ray Bradbury or a Neil Gaiman book because you missed some crummy Kelley Armstrong book (or a Connie Willis novella - this one's for you ur2ndbiggest fan).

Appeasing the customers who got in on the action with The Eyes of the Dragon portfolio would be neat - in theory. Things would get messy if those owners started passing on future books. Would they still hold the rights to that number in 2030 even if they bought nothing since 2018?

Just food for thought without any prior knowledge as to what the next book might be.

[webstar1000]

The question doesn't need to be tough. Look at it from a King collector's perspective and just imagine how much different everyone's collections (on here at least) would be different if the first published book determined the ENTIRETY of a publisher's customer base. How many 'Salem's Lot (Centipede) owners own previous books Jared did? Or on a bigger scale, think about all the King books Cemetery Dance published and think how many collections would be different if people had to have bought CD #1? Or not being able to get The Green Mile from Subterranean? Or not being able to get a Ray Bradbury or a Neil Gaiman book because you missed some crummy Kelley Armstrong book (or a Connie Willis novella - this one's for you ur2ndbiggest fan).

Appeasing the customers who got in on the action with The Eyes of the Dragon portfolio would be neat - in theory. Things would get messy if those owners started passing on future books. Would they still hold the rights to that number in 2030 even if they bought nothing since 2018?

Just food for thought without any prior knowledge as to what the next book might be.

Allow me to play devils advocate... the rights follow the last book.. so why would someone that bought the first book matter in 2030? I agree though with ya... things would be much different in the instances you mentioned...

[Father Cody]

The question doesn't need to be tough. Look at it from a King collector's perspective and just imagine how much different everyone's collections (on here at least) would be different if the first published book determined the ENTIRITY of a publisher's customer base. How many 'Salem's Lot (Centipede) owners own previous books Jared did? Or on a bigger scale, think about all the King books Cemetery Dance published and think how many collections would be different if people had to have bought CD #1? Or not being able to get The Green Mile from Subterranean? Or not being able to get a Ray Bradbury or a Neil Gaiman book because you missed some crummy Kelley Armstrong book (or a Connie Willis novella - this one's for you ur2ndbiggest fan).

Appeasing the customers who got in on the action with The Eyes of the Dragon portfolio would be neat - in theory. Things would get messy if those owners started passing on future books. Would they still hold the rights to that number in 2030 even if they bought nothing since 2018?

Just food for thought without any prior knowledge as to what the next book might be.

As a pretty motivated and aggressive collector, I’d be lying if I said it’s not a bit disheartening to know I’m out of DRE game unless someone else opts out (and even then it’s a crap shoot). In my short time as a member here and collecting altogether, I’ve somewhat gotten to know Paul and I like the guy. I’m genuinely interested in his journey as he builds his company. It’s fun to watch someone you like succeed in accomplishing a dream. The books are awesome, too, but I really doubt I’d have nearly as much of an interest in them knowing I won’t ever own one, if we were talking about any company other than Suntup. My point is this. Will other collectors who don’t know that much about the Suntup story give a rat’s ass about these books when they realize they simply can’t own one? And how does that affect their collectibility in the long run?

[Brian861]

I'll always regret having to pass up on the Dragon Rebound. For a brief moment, I was a member of the exclusive club.

As far as the Misery Limited, the 185 original folks will always be just that. Outside of the numbers changing hands via aftermarket sales. Obliviously there is a huge demand for Paul's product so I can't see him staying at 185. Of course as far as the limiteds, it's whatever number the author is willing to sign. Without looking back, weren't there 750 of the GEs for Misery published?

[amd013]

The question doesn't need to be tough. Look at it from a King collector's perspective and just imagine how much different everyone's collections (on here at least) would be different if the first published book determined the ENTIRETY of a publisher's customer base. How many 'Salem's Lot (Centipede) owners own previous books Jared did? Or on a bigger scale, think about all the King books Cemetery Dance published and think how many collections would be different if people had to have bought CD #1? Or not being able to get The Green Mile from Subterranean? Or not being able to get a Ray Bradbury or a Neil Gaiman book because you missed some crummy Kelley Armstrong book (or a Connie Willis novella - this one's for you ur2ndbiggest fan).

Appeasing the customers who got in on the action with The Eyes of the Dragon portfolio would be neat - in theory. Things would get messy if those owners started passing on future books. Would they still hold the rights to that number in 2030 even if they bought nothing since 2018?

Just food for thought without any prior knowledge as to what the next book might be.

Allow me to play devils advocate... the rights follow the last book.. so why would someone that bought the first book matter in 2030? I agree though with ya... things would be much different in the instances you mentioned...

Personally I think the rights should follow the last book by the same author. So if Paul's next book is by Dean R Koontz, it should be wide open to who can buy it. If his third book is Different Seasons, then those who bought Misery should be able to match their numbers regardless of whether they bought the Dean R Koontz book.

I've been able to match my numbers with CD even though I have only bought SK Limited editions from them.

Just my 0.02

Mike

[PennyUnwise]

The question doesn't need to be tough. Look at it from a King collector's perspective and just imagine how much different everyone's collections (on here at least) would be different if the first published book determined the ENTIRETY of a publisher's customer base. How many 'Salem's Lot (Centipede) owners own previous books Jared did? Or on a bigger scale, think about all the King books Cemetery Dance published and think how many collections would be different if people had to have bought CD #1? Or not being able to get The Green Mile from Subterranean? Or not being able to get a Ray Bradbury or a Neil Gaiman book because you missed some crummy Kelley Armstrong book (or a Connie Willis novella - this one's for you ur2ndbiggest fan).

Appeasing the customers who got in on the action with The Eyes of the Dragon portfolio would be neat - in theory. Things would get messy if those owners started passing on future books. Would they still hold the rights to that number in 2030 even if they bought nothing since 2018?

Just food for thought without any prior knowledge as to what the next book might be.

Allow me to play devils advocate... the rights follow the last book.. so why would someone that bought the first book matter in 2030? I agree though with ya... things would be much different in the instances you mentioned...

Personally I think the rights should follow the last book by the same author. So if Paul's next book is by Dean R Koontz, it should be wide open to who can buy it. If his third book is Different Seasons, then those who bought Misery should be able to match their numbers regardless of whether they bought the Dean R Koontz book.

I've been able to match my numbers with CD even though I have only bought SK Limited editions from them.

Just my 0.02

Mike

I agree with your notion that rights follow the authors. This way those interested in the next author can get in on the action, while those only interested in King don't have to worry about shelling out more money just to keep out for the likelihood of another King book. It is all up to Paul though, so I respect his decision.

[MikeDuke]

One thing is confusing to me. Unless I am wrong, the only people who were going to get a S\L misery for sure are those who bought the EOTD portfolio. But that was done in Paul's Dragon Rebound side of the company. The Misery was done on the Suntup side of things. To me, that just seems (seemed) a little confusing. I know that caused the EOTD portolios to sell out though.

I like Paul. We have talked a few times and they have always been good talks. And I understand about people wanting a certain number to match what they already have. I just don't know about needing something from the Dragon Rebound side to get something from the Suntup side. Once the remaining Misery books were free to the rest of the public, it was probably almost impossible to get one. That's the only thing that confused me. Paul has two great business going on and that's great. To me though, someone who was not aware of his work, it did not work out. I guess I could have bought a portfolio and then I would have the rights to the Misery book but I did not. So unless something changes, I will probably be out for good. I look at is an "oh well" moment. TBH, I mainly collect only King. So if the next Suntup book was not a King book, or something really cool, who knows if I would get it. I am not upset or mad. I still have a few other S\L that I need to get. This went on way too long so I will stop here.

[RichardX]

Demand is always going to be much greater than supply with these books unless the prices are raised to some exorbitant level. Even then they probably still sell out. So some folks are always going to be left out. And there is a secondary market. So I wouldn't worry so much about 2030. If we are still alive then, that will be reward enough.

[frik]

One thing is confusing to me. Unless I am wrong, the only people who were going to get a S\L misery for sure are those who bought the EOTD portfolio. But that was done in Paul's Dragon Rebound side of the company. The Misery was done on the Suntup side of things. To me, that just seems (seemed) a little confusing. I know that caused the EOTD portolios to sell out though.

I like Paul. We have talked a few times and they have always been good talks. And I understand about people wanting a certain number to match what they already have. I just don't know about needing something from the Dragon Rebound side to get something from the Suntup side. Once the remaining Misery books were free to the rest of the public, it was probably almost impossible to get one. That's the only thing that confused me. Paul has two great business going on and that's great. To me though, someone who was not aware of his work, it did not work out. I guess I could have bought a portfolio and then I would have the rights to the Misery book but I did not. So unless something changes, I will probably be out for good. I look at is an "oh well" moment. TBH, I mainly collect only King. So if the next Suntup book was not a King book, or something really cool, who knows if I would get it. I am not upset or mad. I still have a few other S\L that I need to get. This went on way too long so I will stop here.

Well-said, Mike!

sk

[jsmcmullen92]

One thing is confusing to me. Unless I am wrong, the only people who were going to get a S\L misery for sure are those who bought the EOTD portfolio. But that was done in Paul's Dragon Rebound side of the company. The Misery was done on the Suntup side of things. To me, that just seems (seemed) a little confusing. I know that caused the EOTD portolios to sell out though.

I like Paul. We have talked a few times and they have always been good talks. And I understand about people wanting a certain number to match what they already have. I just don't know about needing something from the Dragon Rebound side to get something from the Suntup side. Once the remaining Misery books were free to the rest of the public, it was probably almost impossible to get one. That's the only thing that confused me. Paul has two great business going on and that's great. To me though, someone who was not aware of his work, it did not work out. I guess I could have bought a portfolio and then I would have the rights to the Misery book but I did not. So unless something changes, I will probably be out for good. I look at is an "oh well" moment. TBH, I mainly collect only King. So if the next Suntup book was not a King book, or something really cool, who knows if I would get it. I am not upset or mad. I still have a few other S\L that I need to get. This went on way too long so I will stop here.

Half right. ETOD Portfolio was required to get Misery BUT that was the first publication out of Suntup. You are also correct though that it was based on the owners of EoTD rebound from DRB. Some people jumped on it, others passed due to lack of an interest in portfolios so the Lettered wand numbered were open to buy to the public.

[amd013]

One thing is confusing to me. Unless I am wrong, the only people who were going to get a S\L misery for sure are those who bought the EOTD portfolio. But that was done in Paul's Dragon Rebound side of the company. The Misery was done on the Suntup side of things. To me, that just seems (seemed) a little confusing. I know that caused the EOTD portolios to sell out though.

I like Paul. We have talked a few times and they have always been good talks. And I understand about people wanting a certain number to match what they already have. I just don't know about needing something from the Dragon Rebound side to get something from the Suntup side. Once the remaining Misery books were free to the rest of the public, it was probably almost impossible to get one. That's the only thing that confused me. Paul has two great business going on and that's great. To me though, someone who was not aware of his work, it did not work out. I guess I could have bought a portfolio and then I would have the rights to the Misery book but I did not. So unless something changes, I will probably be out for good. I look at is an "oh well" moment. TBH, I mainly collect only King. So if the next Suntup book was not a King book, or something really cool, who knows if I would get it. I am not upset or mad. I still have a few other S\L that I need to get. This went on way too long so I will stop here.

No the EOTD portfolio was the first Suntup Publishing product. It was not a Dragon Rebound product. However having said that, was the lettered edition of the portfolio based on the Dragon Rebound ownership? I am just trying to remember why I didn't buy a lettered EOTD portfolio. I cant remember if I wasn't eligible, was too late, or I was just too cheap.


EDIT: Looks like I was beaten to it, by Josh, who also answered my questions.

[WeDealInLead]

Brian can correct me, but isn't CD matching numbers just them being super nice to their customers (unless it's the Doubleday set)? I don't think anyone's guaranteed a book, let alone a number. You stand in the proverbial line with the rest of us and hope you're fast enough.

Different publishers have different approaches to rights and such; Centipede and Subterranean will match numbers for books in a series (with ordering being limited to previous owners) but stand alones by those writers aren't guaranteed. Charnel house has books limited to 100 and they're open to everyone. I know they had a subscription but I can't remember the specifics.

I'm also in the camp of those who don't understand why the art portfolio of book A determined the rights to an actual limited of Book B. What's done is done but yeah, it's a bit disheartening to know if the limitation doesn't go up, I'm SOL for future books because I didn't buy a portfolio.

[amd013]

Brian can correct me, but isn't CD matching numbers just them being super nice to their customers (unless it's the Doubleday set)? I don't think anyone's guaranteed a book, let alone a number. You stand in the proverbial line with the rest of us and hope you're fast enough.

Different publishers have different approaches to rights and such; Centipede and Subterranean will match numbers for books in a series (with ordering being limited to previous owners) but stand alones by those writers aren't guaranteed. Charnel house has books limited to 100 and they're open to everyone. I know they had a subscription but I can't remember the specifics.

I'm also in the camp of those who don't understand why the art portfolio of book A determined the rights to an actual limited of Book B. What's done is done but yeah, it's a bit disheartening to know if the limitation doesn't go up, I'm SOL for future books because I didn't buy a portfolio.

I think you are right that you are not guaranteed a book, but CD generally gives advance notice to previous customers, but I don't think even that is guaranteed. I don't know if that is only done with
Doubleday set or not, since Salem's Lot was one of the first Limited editions I bought from the publisher (I did buy the SOD S/L, but at that time I was not committed to collecting and may have blown off any email from CD, so not sure if that gave me any rights or not).

But from that point of view I am sure Paul would not guarantee a book to anyone either, you might get an earlier opportunity to buy, but if you don't pull the trigger in time, I am sure you will be SOL.

[becca69]

It's not an easy thing to decide how future rights to books should go, and there will be many discussions, I'm sure, but as far as Misery being pre-sold to EOTD customers (which is a Suntup product) - it was about being loyal to those who had supported Paul from the beginning. And he gave everyone who didn't have one a chance to get in on it before Misery went on sale. It's hard for any collector to accept not being able to have something they want, but limited editions are just that - limited… and in this case, extremely limited. It's just not possible to please everyone.

I definitely overpaid to get into the Dark Tower S/L club, back in the day, so I could purchase future books at cost (and not even a number under 500).

[Pasiuk57]

I, for one, like the way Paul sold the Misery three editions.
I would like my potential future books to "match" my current items-who wouldn't. but if the next book is not King, I'm not sure I would buy it.
It all depends on the book though.
How about a Joe Hill?
King might be so excited with Misery he ok's another for Paul to design.
I hope so!
Anyway, great discussions...

[TravelinJack]

It's not an easy thing to decide how future rights to books should go, and there will be many discussions, I'm sure, but as far as Misery being pre-sold to EOTD customers (which is a Suntup product) - it was about being loyal to those who had supported Paul from the beginning. And he gave everyone who didn't have one a chance to get in on it before Misery went on sale. It's hard for any collector to accept not being able to have something they want, but limited editions are just that - limited… and in this case, extremely limited. It's just not possible to please everyone.

I definitely overpaid to get into the Dark Tower S/L club, back in the day, so I could purchase future books at cost (and not even a number under 500).

Well said Becca.

[St. Troy]

My concerns are much smaller scale: for the right book (not all definitely; I am small-time), I would eventually like access to a Suntup gift edition.

I haven't had any trouble yet getting 1 of 3,000 from CD (although that may be tested very soon...right?), but I don't know just how chaotic it will get (how much I should panic about notice and acting fast, as well as how many elbows to the head, abdomen and/or groin I may suffer) if I try to get a Suntup GE (there were 1,250 for Misery; I don't know if this will be the limitation for future gift editions).

[St. Troy]

Does anyone recall how long it took Suntup to sell out of the Misery GEs?

[webstar1000]

Does anyone recall how long it took Suntup to sell out of the Misery GEs?

less than a week I think

[becca69]

Does anyone recall how long it took Suntup to sell out of the Misery GEs?

less than a week I think

Closer to 4 weeks.

[webstar1000]

Does anyone recall how long it took Suntup to sell out of the Misery GEs?

less than a week I think

Closer to 4 weeks.

WOW! IT was a month! Seemed so fast!

[zelig]

I appreciate all the discussion on this. How we handle it will be posted when the next book is released.

[Brian James Freeman]

I appreciate all the discussion on this. How we handle it will be posted when the next book is released.

You're going with my idea to select names and book numbers/letters from two oversized novelty hats, right?

[lotuz]

I appreciate all the discussion on this. How we handle it will be posted when the next book is released.

You're going with my idea to select names and book numbers/letters from two oversized novelty hats, right?

Maybe you guys should try it first and report back how it goes

[St. Troy]

I appreciate all the discussion on this. How we handle it will be posted when the next book is released.

You're going with my idea to select names and book numbers/letters from two oversized novelty hats, right?

Yeah, like Folio Society does (and their shipping department does something similar).