Suntup Editions

[lotuz]

We know (based on the availability of the various lettered editions) that there are ~25 people who currently buy every lettered edition, and probably each buy a numbered edition too. I assume that a number of them are on the DRE train as well, but have no indication of how many. I think that a much smaller group of people purchase all the prints (based on the fact that most prints are ~100 total copies and most are still available in one or both sizes).

I'd be curious to know what percentage of the ~250 numbered slots have been filled by people who plan to purchase every book. My guess is that this is currently a much higher percentage than most, if not all, of the other small genre presses (thinking mainly about Centipede Press, Sub Press, Cemetery Dance, PS Publishing, and Charnel House, with Letterpress Publications a bit too early in the process to tell). I think this is why Suntup Editions is the only press that requires you to buy every edition to maintain a specific number with pre-order status. All the other presses have a variety of tracks (King tracks, specific author tracks, specific series tracks, etc.) that allow you to maintain a number under certain circumstances and only request it in others.

I would bet that at some time in the future there will be a tipping point, at which time there will be a minority of sales coming from customers who buy every book and a majority coming from a mix of customers who buy many but not all books plus customers who buy only books that they have a special interest in. I'm sure that this is the current case for all the other small presses (maybe not Charnel House), and I'm also sure that it's related to the much greater output of all those presses (also excepting Charnel House). However, Suntup does maintain a consistently higher price point for both limited and lettered editions, which makes it extra hard to try to predict how many yearly releases will eventually result in the tipping point! Is it 4 books? 6? Probably if it were to go up to 12 books per year it would "tip".

I hope that at that point (if it comes), Paul might consider a model similar to what Centipede Press uses (other presses might do this as well, but I don't know): if you agree to a subscription in which you purchase all of the books, you are guaranteed the same number, access to all releases, and a discount off the list price.

But all of this only considers the buyer's standpoint, not the publisher's!

Those concerns would probably include:

1. When is profit maximized?

2. When is the ability to spend as much time as necessary on each book compromised?

3. What is the optimal work/life balance for the proprietor?

And those are probably all different points! My gut feeling is that (2) is the current priority and (3) is probably a higher work/life ratio than normal, given that we all know that Paul was a collector first, and very much prioritizes the needs and desires of collectors. But let's give him ten years and see if he gets a little jaded

Of course this is all rampant speculation on my part. Would be curious to hear other people's thoughts...

(And their book choices as well!)

[Hunchback Jack]

My picks

Slob - Rex Miller
Darwin's Blade - Dan Simmons

Gone South - Robert McCammon

Ooh, good suggestions. Instead of your second, though, I'd prefer

Spoiler:

The Crook Factory

And 4 books a year was my pick as well, partly for expense, and partly because each release becomes more of an event. But if more books are needed to make Suntup a going concern, bring them on!

HBJ

[firemonkey66]

My picks

Slob - Rex Miller
Darwin's Blade - Dan Simmons

Gone South - Robert McCammon

Ooh, good suggestions. Instead of your second, though, I'd prefer

Spoiler:

The Crook Factory

And 4 books a year was my pick as well, partly for expense, and partly because each release becomes more of an event. But if more books are needed to make Suntup a going concern, bring them on!

HBJ

My top 3 were:
Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
Blood Music by Greg Bear
Sphere by Michael Crichton

I also chose 4 books a year, and I echo HBJ’s reasoning

[cit74]

I had:
Name of the Wind
Something by Neil Gaiman (even his Childrens stories - lots of art and thought this would be fun)
Harry Potter series

[zelig]

Thank you for the submissions! I'm amazed at how many survey submissions have come through. A whole lot more than I expected. Some never completed the survey, so they won't be included for the prize draw. But a ton of great information.

It's always good to see what books are important to you. Some of the ones mentioned are either in the works, or they are on the radar.

Jerome, you may get an increase in traffic after that survey went out. 35% had not heard of the site, but they have now!

A few comments:

I also opted for four books a year but my greatest preference is for however many keep Suntup rolling strong.

But if more books are needed to make Suntup a going concern, bring them on!

HBJ

This is really what it boils down to in terms of how many books I put out in a year. I completely understand that for most people, 4 a year would be more "comfortable" or affordable than 6 or 8 or 12. Believe me, I get it. But at the same time, I have to keep the business rolling and remain focused on building it.

...I think this is why Suntup Editions is the only press that requires you to buy every edition to maintain a specific number with pre-order status. All the other presses have a variety of tracks (King tracks, specific author tracks, specific series tracks, etc.) that allow you to maintain a number under certain circumstances and only request it in others.

You made a lot of really good observations in your full post. I haven't been doing this long enough to have established several 'tracks' though, other than King and not King. So multiple tracks isn't really feasible at this stage. The way it works currently evolved out of requests from customers. Something that has become very clear to me is that the entire Suntup brand is considered a series by many. As to where this goes, tipping points, etc... we will have to see how it plays out.

[webstar1000]

Not included in the poll, but a fact of life is that Suntup produces "x" amount of books per year, "x" amount of highest quality cover prints, and Dragon Rebound produces "x" amount of exquisite rebound books per year.
If there are 4 Suntup books (usually a lettered, numbered, and a gift edition), 4 prints (usually 2 sizes, and possible remarques) and 2 rebound books per annum, that is a hefty chunk of change. Expecting collectors to consistently spend $10K a year just for Suntup/Dragon productions is a stretch.

But I have to ask.. what does Dragon have to do with Suntup other than the owner?


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Not sure why you didn't understand.

A dedicated follower (people who spend their hard earned dollars), buys everything Suntup and Dragon Rebound produces. That means a significant outlay every year.

They are two separate companies and I believe should be treated as such. Perhaps the words “don’t understand” was wrong as I do know what you mean man however grouping the two I no longer do as they have zero to do with each other. Then you might as well include every other fan favourite small press too. Subpress and CD... that’s all I meant.


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[Br!an]

Not included in the poll, but a fact of life is that Suntup produces "x" amount of books per year, "x" amount of highest quality cover prints, and Dragon Rebound produces "x" amount of exquisite rebound books per year.
If there are 4 Suntup books (usually a lettered, numbered, and a gift edition), 4 prints (usually 2 sizes, and possible remarques) and 2 rebound books per annum, that is a hefty chunk of change. Expecting collectors to consistently spend $10K a year just for Suntup/Dragon productions is a stretch.

But I have to ask.. what does Dragon have to do with Suntup other than the owner?


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Not sure why you didn't understand.

A dedicated follower (people who spend their hard earned dollars), buys everything Suntup and Dragon Rebound produces. That means a significant outlay every year.

They are two separate companies and I believe should be treated as such. Perhaps the words “don’t understand” was wrong as I do know what you mean man however grouping the two I no longer do as they have zero to do with each other. Then you might as well include every other fan favourite small press too. Subpress and CD... that’s all I meant.


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They both involve Paul though. His time is valuable. Each effort affects the other. Misery was to be a Dragon Rebound and ended up a Suntup S/L. [Redacted] has been put on hold for now as a Rebound since Paul is busy with Suntup productions.

[MikeDuke]

Lotuz
"I'd be curious to know what percentage of the ~250 numbered slots have been filled by people who plan to purchase every book."
That would be me. I plan on getting everything numbered Paul puts out. And you made some very good points in your post. I am just glad that I found
Suntup when I did. Because the whole process is exciting. From the teaser vid, to the naming of the book and full trailer, to the updates and getting that
book in your hands. I love it. And I don't want to miss one second of it. So far I am very happy with how things are unfolding. I am looking forward
to years of Suntup books to be added to my collection.
And there was a subscription option when Paul was first getting started at different levels. They all sold out. If Paul were to open that up again, I would most likely jump on it.

[zelig]

Couple other points of note is that price points on Numbered level books will be planned in such as way as to not have the more costly letterpress books released back to back. As you've seen with Brother, and also The Road. Artist Gift editions are interesting. At first I wasn't too crazy about making these, but I feel differently now. You will start to see more of these with each release. I'm not saying every book will have one, but more of them will in the future.

[Patrick]

There may come a day that I choose not to buy every numbered edition that Suntup produces, but that day hasn’t yet come.

I’m also a subscriber to the Covers Collection, but starting to wonder how long I should keep that monthly annuity payout going. I love the quality so much, but I hadn’t realized how long the series would continue on.

Having missed the Dragon Rebound train, I have to live vicariously through others and my wallet thanks me.

I would like Suntup Editions productions of:
Oryx and Crake,
anything written by Kurt Vonnegut,
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[jeffingoff]

One thing I hadn't considered is a Suntup Edition of a brand new release. That would be amazing. A brand new book by a respected author that hasn't seen publication anywhere else.

[amd013]

There may come a day that I choose not to buy every numbered edition that Suntup produces, but that day hasn’t yet come.

I’m also a subscriber to the Covers Collection, but starting to wonder how long I should keep that monthly annuity payout going. I love the quality so much, but I hadn’t realized how long the series would continue on.

Having missed the Dragon Rebound train, I have to live vicariously through others and my wallet thanks me.

I would like Suntup Editions productions of:
Oryx and Crake,
anything written by Kurt Vonnegut,
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

I agree with you points. Each release I keep thinking this is when I should bow out, but everyone keeps giving rave reviews on the books, so I continue on. I had never heard of "The Road" and "Brother", and didn't realize "Rosemary's Baby" was based on a book. So far the only book I have read in the non-king tract is THoHH, which I read a few years earlier. If it goes more then 4 a year, I will definetly bow out, and just try to get ones if I have already read (or are planing to read) the book.

For the covers, I have already asked Paul to exclude me from the UK based covers, which he was nice enough to accommodate. I think right now, the only cover that I am looking for is the original US stand hardcover. So I may quit soon, especially since my case is getting stuffed.

For future books I would like to see:
Ethel the Aardvark goes quantity surveying
Olsen's Standard Book of British Birds (expurgated version)
anything by Edmund Wells.

[firemonkey66]

Not included in the poll, but a fact of life is that Suntup produces "x" amount of books per year, "x" amount of highest quality cover prints, and Dragon Rebound produces "x" amount of exquisite rebound books per year.
If there are 4 Suntup books (usually a lettered, numbered, and a gift edition), 4 prints (usually 2 sizes, and possible remarques) and 2 rebound books per annum, that is a hefty chunk of change. Expecting collectors to consistently spend $10K a year just for Suntup/Dragon productions is a stretch.

But I have to ask.. what does Dragon have to do with Suntup other than the owner?


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Not sure why you didn't understand.

A dedicated follower (people who spend their hard earned dollars), buys everything Suntup and Dragon Rebound produces. That means a significant outlay every year.

They are two separate companies and I believe should be treated as such. Perhaps the words “don’t understand” was wrong as I do know what you mean man however grouping the two I no longer do as they have zero to do with each other. Then you might as well include every other fan favourite small press too. Subpress and CD... that’s all I meant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They both involve Paul though. His time is valuable. Each effort affects the other. Misery was to be a Dragon Rebound and ended up a Suntup S/L. [Redacted] has been put on hold for now as a Rebound since Paul is busy with Suntup productions.

Dragon Rebound and Suntup might be separate companies, but they are linked by the fact that Dragon Rebound letter owners were offered a private matching letter preorder of the first Suntup publication, the EoTD art portfolio. And owning that lettered portfolio led to a private preorder of a matching lettered Misery, and so forth. For me, being one of the lucky ones that got onto the ground floor of Suntup via this route, the two companies are linked in that one opened up the door to the other. And that is on top of the fact that Paul runs both companies. So sure, on paper they are separate companies, but do they have nothing to do with each other? Obviously not. Maybe at the present moment they don't have anything to do with each other aside from who runs them, but the one time that they actually did was pretty damn important, so they will always be linked.

[zelig]

I for sure did not anticipate that the prints would continue for as long as they have when I first launched the series, but it would be a shame to end it prematurely. As more and more cover prints came on board, I began to realize how unlikely it is that there will ever be another opportunity to have a set of prints of every major King cover, signed by the artist. And that lead me to conclude what a unique series this is, when viewed not necessarily on an individual print level, but as a whole. To date, there are 37 prints that have been released and even if subscribers dropped off, I would still see this through. I want to be able to look back and feel confident that I made it as complete as possible.

There are some which I felt wouldn't make sense to do a print of, and there are also others which I was simply not able to license. The most upsetting for me was The Stand. It took forever to even find Cayea, and when I did, he did not want to license it. This may come across as biased, but really, any artist who chooses not to be a part of this series is missing out on a unique opportunity considering the scope of the collection. But you have to respect the artist's decision. I think it's a matter of them not seeing the bigger vision of it.

It's no small feat putting one of these out every month without skipping a beat, but I really feel that it is absolutely worth the effort.

[swintek]

I wanted to nominate Song of Kali by Dan Simmons, but it was done in a lettered by Earthling Press (only ~14-16 copies) that was perfectly executed. Even Paul would have a challenge surpassing the production quality of that book.

Yes, this! I am changing one of my Suntup wishlist pics to Song of Kali. Especially because of the fact that only 15 people have a worthy edition of it (no offense to Paul Miller on the fine numbered edition he did). In keeping with my personal mantra of "Beautiful books for all!"- the world needs more options of a killer edition of an absolutely essential novel.

For the record, then:

1. Red Dragon
2. Song of Kali
3. On Stranger Tides

('Kali bumped Silence of the Lambs. I know Subterranean did it- and did it well- but Harris only signed the crazy-expensive lettered. If Paul could get him to sign a Suntup numbered- I think it would justify another limited. Especially if published in tandem with Red Dragon)

[firemonkey66]

I wanted to nominate Song of Kali by Dan Simmons, but it was done in a lettered by Earthling Press (only ~14-16 copies) that was perfectly executed. Even Paul would have a challenge surpassing the production quality of that book.

Yes, this! I am changing one of my Suntup wishlist pics to Song of Kali. Especially because of the fact that only 15 people have a worthy edition of it (no offense to Paul Miller on the fine numbered edition he did). In keeping with my personal mantra of "Beautiful books for all!"- the world needs more options of a killer edition of an absolutely essential novel.

For the record, then:

1. Red Dragon
2. Song of Kali
3. On Stranger Tides

('Kali bumped Silence of the Lambs. I know Subterranean did it- and did it well- but Harris only signed the crazy-expensive lettered. If Paul could get him to sign a Suntup numbered- I think it would justify another limited. Especially if published in tandem with Red Dragon)

Damnit, while I was selecting my 3 books for the survey, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was forgetting another book that I would prefer to see, and you just made me realize what is was! I would looooove to see Hannibal get the Suntup treatment. I hereby amend my list:

1) Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
2) Hannibal by Thomas Harris
3) Sphere by Michael Crichton

[NiceM]

I loved thew survey

Somehow I fell out of league with horror and ended up with my top 3

1. The Secret History by Donna Tartt
2. The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand
3. Tolkien. All works. Probably never possible with licenses but a man can dream what Paul would do with those books and all the art!

[webstar1000]

I wanted to nominate Song of Kali by Dan Simmons, but it was done in a lettered by Earthling Press (only ~14-16 copies) that was perfectly executed. Even Paul would have a challenge surpassing the production quality of that book.

Yes, this! I am changing one of my Suntup wishlist pics to Song of Kali. Especially because of the fact that only 15 people have a worthy edition of it (no offense to Paul Miller on the fine numbered edition he did). In keeping with my personal mantra of "Beautiful books for all!"- the world needs more options of a killer edition of an absolutely essential novel.

For the record, then:

1. Red Dragon
2. Song of Kali
3. On Stranger Tides

('Kali bumped Silence of the Lambs. I know Subterranean did it- and did it well- but Harris only signed the crazy-expensive lettered. If Paul could get him to sign a Suntup numbered- I think it would justify another limited. Especially if published in tandem with Red Dragon)

Damnit, while I was selecting my 3 books for the survey, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was forgetting another book that I would prefer to see, and you just made me realize what is was! I would looooove to see Hannibal get the Suntup treatment. I hereby amend my list:

1) Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
2) Hannibal by Thomas Harris
3) Sphere by Michael Crichton

Oh your 1,2 is awesomeness!


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[Room 217 Caretaker]

I picked:

1. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl (please don't laugh at me)
2. Jaws by Peter Benchley
3. Hell House by Richard Matheson

The end papers for Charlie will be lickable wall paper.

Mulleins

[Garrell]

I picked:

1. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl (please don't laugh at me)
2. Jaws by Peter Benchley
3. Hell House by Richard Matheson

The end papers for Charlie will be lickable wall paper.

Mulleins

Great choices, I would buy any of the three

[firemonkey66]

1) Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
2) Hannibal by Thomas Harris
3) Sphere by Michael Crichton

Oh your 1,2 is awesomeness!


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I'm actually thinking about moving Hannibal up to #1 now that I'm thinking about it. And it's making me want to reread it, but Brother is next on my list, and I can't bump it! Problems like this are problems I like to have, though

[firemonkey66]

I picked:

1. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl (please don't laugh at me)
2. Jaws by Peter Benchley
3. Hell House by Richard Matheson

The end papers for Charlie will be lickable wall paper.

Mulleins

That's a good idea! Although lickable/edible endpapers might be tough, maybe scented endpapers? Like you open Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the smell of candy wafts up to you? That would be pretty damn cool

[jeffingoff]

I picked:

1. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl (please don't laugh at me)
2. Jaws by Peter Benchley
3. Hell House by Richard Matheson

The end papers for Charlie will be lickable wall paper.

Mulleins

That's a good idea! Although lickable/edible endpapers might be tough, maybe scented endpapers? Like you open Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the smell of candy wafts up to you? That would be pretty damn cool

They'd need to taste/smell like snozzberries. Which is Dahl's word for

Spoiler:

dick

[BadHatHarry]

I picked:

1) The Bosch series by Michael Connelly
2) The Sheltering Sky by Paul Bowles
3) Calvin & Hobbes by Bill Watterson (because I'd love to see what Suntup could do with that)

[OldCrow88]

Sharing the common concern that there's no perfect three and I'm sure I overlooked awesome possibilities, I picked:

Neuromancer by William Gibson
Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman
The Gospel of Loki by Joanne Harris.