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Thread: California's new absurd autograph law AB 1570

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    Rabid Billybumbler cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74's Avatar

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    Default California's new absurd autograph law AB 1570

    I just happened to read this in an email sent out from Borderlands bookstore this afternoon - just quietly placed. All of the sponsors of the law make no mention of it on their site. I have already sent a few messages on their facebook pages asking for an explanation.

    http://eurekabooksellers.com/repeal-...ph-law-ab1570/

    http://eurekabooksellers.com/ab1570/

    And here is the law itself:

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01520160AB1570

    I am curious as to what small press like CD, etc. will do in the face of this law. Already Easton Press will not ship signed books to California - just go to their website and check it out:

    http://www.eastonpress.com/prod/AC6/...Signed-Edition

    http://www.eastonpress.com/prod/CB6/...Signed-Edition
    Wanted:
    Gunslinger s/l #344
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    Here is the link to change.org to sign the petition to repeal this law:

    https://www.change.org/p/california-...edium=copylink
    Wanted:
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    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. Wayne Gretzky

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    Rabid Billybumbler cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74's Avatar

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    Nearly everyone in California is impacted by AB 1570, California's new autograph bill, because it affects everyone with a signed item in their possession, whether it’s a painting passed down through generations, an autographed baseball, or a treasured book obtained at an author’s book signing. Under the new law, when a California consumer sells an autographed item worth $5 or more, the consumer's name and address must be included on a Certificate of Authenticity. This requirement applies to anyone reselling the item as authentic, be it a bookseller, auction house, comic book dealer, antiques dealer, autograph dealer, art dealer, an estate sales company, or even a charity.
    AB 1570 is fatally flawed and must be repealed with immediate effect. It is rife with unintended consequences that harm both consumers and small businesses. It has been condemned by newspaper editorial boards and the American Civil Liberties Union.
    “This bill never should have passed. The Legislature must fix or repeal it immediately when it resumes business.” – Los Angeles Times Editorial Board
    Michael Risher, a lawyer with the ACLU of Northern California, told the New York Times “The law is an invasion into privacy and should be amended.”
    Join consumers, booksellers, auction houses, comic book dealers, art dealers, autograph dealers, authors, artists, and fundraisers and other charitable organizations and demand the California State Legislature repeal AB 1570.
    Wanted:
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    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. Wayne Gretzky

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    Rabid Billybumbler cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74's Avatar

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    http://www.artlawgallery.com/2016/12...autograph-law/

    here is another succinct article talking about this law and some of the repercussions.

    Link to the petition is above post #2
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    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. Wayne Gretzky

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    Rabid Billybumbler cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74's Avatar

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    Because no one can make up a fake and useless C.O.A. - did these people ever go on eBay before thinking about this law???

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/esse...htmlstory.html
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    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. Wayne Gretzky

  6. #6
    Rabid Billybumbler cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74 is a splendid one to behold cit74's Avatar

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    As Brown explained on his bookstore’s blog:

    The law requires dealers in any autographed material to provide certificates of authenticity (COA) for any signed item sold for $5 or more.

    “That sounds pretty reasonable,” you might be thinking. The legislature and the governor apparently had a similar response, because the law was passed with almost no discussion (though eBay’s lobbyist’s fingerprints are on the bill -- they managed to get themselves exempted).

    Here’s the problem: We sell greeting cards by local artist John Wesa. He signs each one. If we sell one for $5, under this law, we have to provide a certificate of authenticity, and we have to keep our copy of the COA for seven (7!) years. For a $5 greeting card.

    Each year, we sell more than a thousand books signed by local authors, every one of these will need to have an accompanying COA. In odd-numbered years, we sell books for the Humboldt County Children’s Book Author Festival. In 2015, we sold 1605 signed books to benefit the festival. That’s 1605 COAs, to be filed and stored for seven years.

    Not only that, but if a third-party seller is involved, he/she must be identified on the COA. So, for example, if Brown buys a signed book from a scout, or a collector who is deaccessioning, or someone who inherited a collection, he would have to supply that person’s name and address to the future buyer on the COA.

    Brown and fellow bookseller Bill Petrocelli, co-owner of Book Passage in Corte Madera, California, believe this law not only imposes “considerable hardships on many businesses” but “requires significant invasion of privacy for any consumer who wishes to sell anything signed.”

    The booksellers’ letters to their state representatives on this topic have been posted in full on the Eureka Books blog. Brown’s letter questions how this law will affect the upcoming California International Antiquarian Book Fair. He writes, “Surely many out-of-state vendors who exhibit at conventions and trade shows in California will choose not to participate because of this law.”
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    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. Wayne Gretzky

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    I signed that petition several days ago. Every member who is a California resident should do so.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice jsweet will become famous soon enough jsweet will become famous soon enough

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    That explains the Easton Press notice. I saw that last weekend and wondered what that was all about.

    So, I see this section of the law: A provider or operator of an online marketplace, provided that the online marketplace provider or operator is not principally in the business of selling, or offering for sale, collectibles, in or from the state, exclusively or nonexclusively, or does not hold itself out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to collectibles.
    I assume that is the part that would exclude eBay itself, but what about any of us who may sell books on eBay? Should we no longer be shipping to California?

  9. #9
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    It is ironic that the wording (as any law may be) not exactly clear - but this seems to be the part to exclude eBay - which is the one place I'd be more concerned about forgeries...not the book store with said author, player, person directly there and signing. Even more to the absurdity of this law if it's meant to protect the buyer...wtf

    I posed the question to Brian at CD - so I'm curious as to his response. Who would go to the trouble of bringing a case to the courts and claiming that they were "wronged by the sale" and seeking damages - I hope none of us on this site would do that - so I assume it wouldn't impact how we go about business. But we saw Easton press' decision - they just didn't want to deal with the hassle - maybe I'd prefer they saw the absurdity and got together with other booksellers (especially those in California) to raise awareness about of the bill and ways to repeal this nonesense
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    Who/what would be in charge of policing all those CoAs?

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    How much does it cost to get a COA? $100? Who would pay $100 for the privilege of selling a book worth $5 to $20?

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    Quote Originally Posted by divemaster View Post
    How much does it cost to get a COA? $100? Who would pay $100 for the privilege of selling a book worth $5 to $20?
    Not only that but each owner's Name and Address must be present on the COA. Privacy/Library Privacy laws being violated.
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    DT II: The Drawing of the Three S/L #644 FOUND 7/9/15!

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    And as becca pointed out this would affect anyone purchasing items sold in California - like comic-con, mysterious galaxy, image comics - just to potentially name a few. So everyone here needs to sign the perition - I don't think you need to be a Cali native to sign.

    Post #2

    Seems like court system would be in charge - since if someone felt violated they could sue for up to 10x the price paid for said item
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    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be. Wayne Gretzky

  14. #14

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    I signed the petition and put a thread up on my forums linking to this thread, thanks for posting this. I'm a bit unclear on the two things though:

    1) Who's enforcing this law and to what extent?

    2) What's the actual penalty here? The law states 10x amount of damages and court fees. Does this mean if we as a community sell a flatsigned copy that is proven to be a fake, for $300 to someone in CA they would recieve $3,000 in damages + various fees if they won in court? That's essentially how I'm reading this. If so, it sounds like there's no other penalty so selling S/L editions wouldn't incur any issues just the flatsigned books or signed art. Also selling any unsigned gift editions, facsimile editions, or unsigned remarques aren't covered either.

    Just trying to clarify which King items would actually fall under this, and what specific penalties a person could theoretically incur should they make a sale to someone living in California.

    Here's the paragraph dealing with penalties:

    "Any consumer injured by the failure of a dealer to provide a certificate of authenticity containing the information required by this section, or by a dealer’s furnishing of a certificate of authenticity that is false, shall be entitled to recover, in addition to actual damages, a civil penalty in an amount equal to 10 times actual damages, plus court costs, reasonable attorney’s fees, interest, and expert witness fees, if applicable, incurred by the consumer in the action. The court, in its discretion, may award additional damages based on the egregiousness of the dealer’s conduct. The remedy specified in this section is in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other remedy that may be provided by law"
    Thanks much,




    The Collector www.stephenkingcollector.com
    --Your source for info on rare Stephen King--

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    I think the s/l would potentially be included if they did not include this COA as the law states - since this is still pretty vague. But you are right - does not mention who would enforce it - I guess you have to wait until the first person tries to bring such a case to court. In the meantime - other sellers, like easton press, don't want to have to deal with this Cali BS at all

    Do we have a lawyer on this site - who can bring better insight? I did send this to a friend of mine - a lawyer - he deals with unions, but I will be interested on his take
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    Quote Originally Posted by cit74 View Post
    I think the s/l would potentially be included if they did not include this COA as the law states - since this is still pretty vague. But you are right - does not mention who would enforce it - I guess you have to wait until the first person tries to bring such a case to court. In the meantime - other sellers, like easton press, don't want to have to deal with this Cali BS at all

    Do we have a lawyer on this site - who can bring better insight? I did send this to a friend of mine - a lawyer - he deals with unions, but I will be interested on his take
    Since there is no fine listed like "Failure to produce a COA at the time of purchase subjects the seller to XXXX fine" The way I was reading it was that someone would have to take you to court and prove that they got a fake copy of something, otherwise what damages would the plaintiff have? Any generic S/L edition that's part of a run(Take a S/L Shining for example) would be pretty easy to show it's not a fake so 10x of 0 = 0. Then again I'm no lawyer
    Thanks much,




    The Collector www.stephenkingcollector.com
    --Your source for info on rare Stephen King--

  17. #17
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    It's also retroactive I believe... you would have to provide all ownership information dating back to original owner if available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by divemaster View Post
    How much does it cost to get a COA? $100? Who would pay $100 for the privilege of selling a book worth $5 to $20?
    I don't think you have to pay anything for the COA, it sounds like you can print it up yourself as long as it has all the required information outlined in the law. But still its a major hassle to go through for every little item, and include your address, and potentially the previous owners address, and then keep a copy of it on file for 7 years.

    I wonder if you can get around it via some kind of waiver. Although that is not that much better.
    Wanted:

    'Salem's Lot Portfolio #606. (could just trade limitation sheets).

  19. #19
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    You know, the more I think about it the more confused I get. From the bill:

    (g) Any consumer injured by the failure of a dealer to provide a certificate of authenticity containing the information required by this section, or by a dealer’s furnishing of a certificate of authenticity that is false, shall be entitled to recover, in addition to actual damages, a civil penalty in an amount equal to 10 times actual damages, plus court costs, reasonable attorney’s fees, interest, and expert witness fees, if applicable, incurred by the consumer in the action. The court, in its discretion, may award additional damages based on the egregiousness of the dealer’s conduct. The remedy specified in this section is in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other remedy that may be provided by law.
    So you can be sued for not providing a COA and cause damages, and you can be sued for providing a false one and cause damages, so it sounds like in either case they have to prove some damages to collect. I don't think having the COA is going to decrease the likelihood that you are going to be sued for a bad autograph. In fact, I think it would increase the probability because now they have your address so they can serve you a court summons. It really sounds like there is no difference in the penalty for not providing one. So I would just risk it. There's no upside to providing the COA except for the rare customer who insists on it.

    Perhaps sellers in CA might risk loosing their "resale certificate", but I don't see how they could enforce it to sellers outside CA

    Also, wouldn't this clause clear many people (for example I think I don't kneed to be woried about using this site to sell to another member in CA)
    (B) “Dealer” does not include any of the following:

    ....

    (iii) A provider or operator of an online marketplace, provided that the online marketplace provider or operator is not principally in the business of selling, or offering for sale, collectibles, in or from the state, exclusively or nonexclusively, or does not hold itself out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to collectibles.
    While many of the people on this forum may sell some of their books from time to time, most, with the exception of David from Betts, are not "principally in the business of selling ...." I think a lot of people on ebay could fall into that catagory.

    At any rate, I'm not a lawyer, so don't go by any of this without consalting one. Having said that, I personally would sell to a CA resident without offering a CA (if they were ok with that) (if I had anything to sell).
    Wanted:

    'Salem's Lot Portfolio #606. (could just trade limitation sheets).

  20. #20
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    A provider or operator of an online marketplace, provided that the online marketplace provider or operator is not principally in the business of selling, or offering for sale, collectibles, in or from the state, exclusively or nonexclusively, or does not hold itself out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to collectibles.
    How I read this, a provider/ operator of an online Marketplace (Not seller) that sells more than just collectables and signatures that is not from California or is dumb and does no research is not held liable. BUT a seller would still be because they are not the provder or operator of the marketplace.
    Well Californians you need to start buying up all the fakes that people sell from CA online and take them to court and get 10x the money back as well as getting them to stop peddling fakes

  21. #21
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    Doesn't anyone care that your personal information might be sent out to anyone who buys a book that you have had in your collection? This could be for years to come and it violates the Library Privacy Laws on top of that. Anyone can know what you read, what's been in your collection and how to get a hold of you (or possibly steal from you). This is of course for used books and collectibles.
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  22. #22
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    The law seems to be overbroad and probably won't withstand a court challenge.

  23. #23
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    It needs to be amended or repealed.
    It's poorly written.
    Since I live in California, I can and will write to my state representatives senator

  24. #24
    Gunslinger Apprentice redsoxfan565 is on a distinguished road

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    The intent of this law is great, but as is with most laws in our country the wording is very vague and written by people who have no idea about the business the law is supposed to regulate.

  25. #25
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