+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 71

Thread: The Cross Dog

  1. #26
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    I should have made this a poll.
    Why? What difference would that have made?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  2. #27
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    your face

    it wouldn't make a difference, but we could get everyone to vote on it and express their opinions.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  3. #28
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chinatown
    Posts
    22,486
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    I can add a poll. Which poll?

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #29
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    your face

    it wouldn't make a difference, but we could get everyone to vote on it and express their opinions.
    Isn't everyone already expressing their opinions? What difference would making a poll make? Is it because if your opinion gets the most votes you "win"?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  5. #30
    Goldmember Míchéal is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    642
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    A little healthy competition never hurt anybody...

  6. #31
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    not win exactly, but we could see where the majority of votes goes.

    Besides, I'm me, therefore I already won.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  7. #32
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    Besides, I'm me, therefore I already won.
    You have a point.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  8. #33
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,302
    My Mood
    Cynical
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    BUt the kids all had talents, and putting them talents together made them formidable.

    Comparing the dog's defeat of the vamp to the loser's club defeat of pennywise is stupid, they're not even in the same league.
    No, they're not - but I made the comparison to show repeated use of a writing tool - rather than comparing the characters themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Well you can have your opinions on that of course, but my point still stands about King's writing style. He's not sitting at his Mac worried about what the CR folk would think about the cross dog killing the head villain of the story.
    He might not care what we think about the outcome or the actions of a character, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a thought process behind it - and how are you to know anymore than I, what that process is?

    Stories may "write themselves", but he obviously takes the time to insert many references and names and pop culture etc, so its not a totally organic process.

  9. #34
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    Darkers, I understand your point. However, somedays I think he just views books as money. Like, "My wife needs a new car, guess I'll put out a new book." And doesn't even worry about the quality anymore. The guy has lost the hunger.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  10. #35
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    This
    For me its not a matter of King spending a lot of time worrying about "giving an popular or powerful villain a big exit" but just what comes to him as he is writing.
    He's said over and over in various publications and interviews that he doesn't have a conscious writing style but one that flows from his under-mind.
    You said he makes a special point of killing off his villains in a way that makes them look pathetic or feeble -
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts
    I'm starting to think that perhaps King sometimes kills off his biggest "baddies" with seemingly irrelevant characters as a kind of ultimate punishment/insult to evil.
    So, instead of letting them go out in a blaze of glory with someone they'd consider an equal adversary, he snuffs them out with as little pomp and ceremony as they deserve.

    The cross dog is like that
    and I'm saying that he does not write with any idea of making some special moral point behind the way the villains get taken out. Same with the case of the cross dog.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  11. #36
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    10,971

    Default

    I see where you are going with your theory lisa, and it's workable for sure. perhaps what king is saying is that what's most needed to overcome evil is to stand in the first place. the universe will provide whatever help may be necessary as needed [like the cross dog or the turtle figurine]. i don't know that this applies to mordred & flagg though as both were evil so
    Spoiler:
    it wasn't really a stand it was just a murder and a meal.

  12. #37
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,302
    My Mood
    Cynical
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I made the Flagg and Mordred point because its one thats so debated.
    Spoiler:
    The problem most people seem to have with Flagg's death, is the fact that Mordred was an infant, a newcomer and more importantly - of the Red. They seemed to want to see Flagg get taken down by the White at least. And I do think that King was purposely giving Flagg his just deserts by having him killed "in house" and not dying a hero's (whatever the evil equivalent of a hero is) death in battle.


    The cross dog may not be such a good example, but I see it as definately similar. A neutral force taking down the "baddie", denied her confrontation with the hero, an unsatisfying (on her part) death.

  13. #38
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    ******SPOILER"S ABOUND************
    and can I get a mod to spoiler the thread as a whole? PLease?



    Murder and a Meal. Is that the Number #3 Combo? Can I get fries with that?


    The way I see it is there is always a "Big Bad" of a book, (sorry, I love Buffy and use the terminology alot) and is usually taken out hardcore. I mean, RF in The Stand was taken out with a fucken A-bomb. Barlow was taken out in a fitting manner. Even, Walter was taken out in a fitting manner, although it didn't build up to it enough. But to be killed by a minor character...it's undignified for a Big Bad of the story.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  14. #39
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I made the Flagg and Mordred point because its one thats so debated.
    Spoiler:
    The problem most people seem to have with Flagg's death, is the fact that Mordred was an infant, a newcomer and more importantly - of the Red. They seemed to want to see Flagg get taken down by the White at least. And I do think that King was purposely giving Flagg his just deserts by having him killed "in house" and not dying a hero's (whatever the evil equivalent of a hero is) death in battle.


    The cross dog may not be such a good example, but I see it as definately similar. A neutral force taking down the "baddie", denied her confrontation with the hero, an unsatisfying (on her part) death.

    Like I said, you can have your opinions about whether Flagg's death was a worthy one or whichever villain you choose in King's universe, my point is not arguing about that but about King making a point with how his villains get killed when he has said over and over that he writes what comes to him. So to me he's not sitting there saying to himself "This is a villain so she should go out with a whimper, not a bang".
    Unless you've read some interview where he has said different of course.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  15. #40
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    The cross dog killed the main villain because thats what came to King when he was writing it, not making some moral point about bad guys. Thats how I see it. Personally I loved how it played out because it was a shocker..like I said.."Damn! Didn't see that one coming!"
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  16. #41
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    10,971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I made the Flagg and Mordred point because its one thats so debated.
    Spoiler:
    The problem most people seem to have with Flagg's death, is the fact that Mordred was an infant, a newcomer and more importantly - of the Red. They seemed to want to see Flagg get taken down by the White at least. And I do think that King was purposely giving Flagg his just deserts by having him killed "in house" and not dying a hero's (whatever the evil equivalent of a hero is) death in battle.


    The cross dog may not be such a good example, but I see it as definately similar. A neutral force taking down the "baddie", denied her confrontation with the hero, an unsatisfying (on her part) death.
    similar for sure. there is a pattern, whether it is intentional or not on king's part we could all debate and never really know for sure.

    Spoiler:
    i still think he made some poor choices in the case of flagg's death. these can be somewhat rationalized after the fact, but i am pretty firmly in the camp that feels that flagg deserved a better ending. evil or not, he was among king's greatest creation and he deserved to be more than an afterthought killed off by a new character. ok, too much, too much.


    my point is, i think the other examples like the cross dog or the loser's club is that sometimes if king has a "message" at all it's that when it comes time to stand, stand. even if it doesn't work, there's honor in it.

  17. #42
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    i get your point now allhail.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  18. #43
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    10,971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    The cross dog killed the main villain because thats what came to King when he was writing it, not making some moral point about bad guys. Thats how I see it. Personally I loved how it played out because it was a shocker..like I said.."Damn! Didn't see that one coming!"
    good points. i thought the dog's markings were just creepy story telling not foreshadowing. i liked the dog's ultimate role in the story.

  19. #44
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,302
    My Mood
    Cynical
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    ******SPOILER"S ABOUND************
    and can I get a mod to spoiler the thread as a whole? PLease?
    I'm only marking my DT7 spoilers, otherwise its a given that the thread will have spoilers for the relevant story.

    The way I see it is there is always a "Big Bad" of a book, (sorry, I love Buffy and use the terminology alot)
    There is never a need to apologise for being a Buffy fan

    CK - I like what you're saying, but I will agree to disagree
    The way you are regarding my opinion (about the way SK might be thinking/channelling his thoughts while writing) isn't entirely the way I'm meaning to express it...but I can't think how to rephrase it, so I'll leave it at that.

  20. #45
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,451
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    CK - I like what you're saying, but I will agree to disagree
    The way you are regarding my opinion (about the way SK might be thinking/channelling his thoughts while writing) isn't entirely the way I'm meaning to express it...but I can't think how to rephrase it, so I'll leave it at that.
    *Bows* We'll just leave it at that then.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  21. #46
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chinatown
    Posts
    22,486
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    ******SPOILER"S ABOUND************
    and can I get a mod to spoiler the thread as a whole? PLease?
    I'm only marking my DT7 spoilers, otherwise its a given that the thread will have spoilers for the relevant story.
    Right.

    This thread is in The Baronies > The Little Sisters of Eluria, which means, The Little Sisters of Eluria spoilers don't have to be marked here, while all others do.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. #47
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    o, ok
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  23. #48
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lettiland
    Posts
    22,328
    My Mood
    Aggressive
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    The cross dog killed the main villain because thats what came to King when he was writing it, not making some moral point about bad guys.
    Well, I think I can agree King isn't consciously out to make any kind of a point with regards to his villains. I think all his characters are if anything intended to mimic real life (despite fantastic circumstances). Sometimes evil dies a stupid senseless death. Sometimes good people do. There is no rhyme or reason, no causal reaction to circumstances. Sometimes there is no why. Death comes to us all
    Spoiler:
    except me
    with or without causality. There is no reason for a reason.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Ill be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  24. #49
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,302
    My Mood
    Cynical
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I can get my head round that no problem, I agree with CK making that same point - what I'm disagreeing with is King's writing being completely unplanned. He can be getting ideas from nowhere as his story unfurls, but thats not to say he then doesn't brainstorm with these ideas. Infact, in most of his storys he foreshadows, which itself denies that his stories are unplanned throughout.

    I think he knew exactly what he was going to do with the cross dog from the moment he wrote it.

  25. #50
    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,541
    My Mood
    Breezy

    Default

    Or else why write in such an insignificant detail as his coloring, right?

    What I hate is when he says something like "and that's the last time he saw her alive" at the end of a chapter, when he could have surprised you with someone's death.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts