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Thread: The Cross Dog

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    Kingslayer John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze has a spectacular aura about John Blaze's Avatar

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    Default The Cross Dog

    Am I the only one to think of the dog as a shitty deux ex machina?>

    So his fur is colored like a cross, he can take down a nasty strong old vampire?

    I don't know. I love SK's stories more than the average fan, but sometimes even I cry "bullshit", and this detail is one reason I don't really like this story.

    Any Opinions?
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    Am I the only one to think of the dog as a shitty deux ex machina?>

    So his fur is colored like a cross, he can take down a nasty strong old vampire?

    I don't know. I love SK's stories more than the average fan, but sometimes even I cry "bullshit", and this detail is one reason I don't really like this story.

    Any Opinions?

    Very interesting topic! To me it seems like one of those things you could either look at desparagingly as "deus ex machina" like you do or you could look at it as a bizarre twist. I see it as a bizarre twist. I enjoyed the cross dog's odd role he had to play.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Gunslinger Apprentice ATG is on a distinguished road

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    Oy ?!?
    "The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

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    ATG, have you read the Little Sister's of Eluria?

    and allhail, the question I have is does it make sense to you?>
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    Since I considered it "bizarre" I would say that would mean it would fall out of the realm of sense. Does much of what happens in the Dark Tower series or in most SK books make sense to you?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    ok, how about plausible?

    Yes, the DT books are fantasy, but if all of a sudden Mordred killed everyone including Roland but was stopped by Oy, would that be plausible?
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    Gunslinger Apprentice ATG is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBlaze View Post
    ATG, have you read the Little Sister's of Eluria?

    and allhail, the question I have is does it make sense to you?>
    No.

    /hides.
    "The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

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    it's in the Everything's Eventual compilation of stories.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    Gunslinger Apprentice ATG is on a distinguished road

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    I'll get to it Eventually.
    "The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

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    not a pun!
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    This is a common critique of Stephen King John. I'm under the impression that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I think this might be the latter and not the former. I think it has a lot to do with his method of writing i.e. since he seldom uses outlines or even defined themes his characters require a god machine to deliver them. I'm sure I'm stating the obvious. Anyways, I think you're correct in bringing this up.

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    I remember wondering what the purpose of the dog was going to be when I intially encountered it. But it didn't jar with me, I quite liked it.

    Infact, I'm coming to see
    Spoiler:
    Flagg's death at the hands of Mordred in much the same way.
    I'm starting to think that perhaps King sometimes kills off his biggest "baddies" with seemingly irrelevant characters as a kind of ultimate punishment/insult to evil.
    So, instead of letting them go out in a blaze of glory with someone they'd consider an equal adversary, he snuffs them out with as little pomp and ceremony as they deserve.

    The cross dog is like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I'm starting to think that perhaps King sometimes kills of his biggest "baddies" with seemingly irrelevant characters as a kind of ultimate punishment/insult to evil.
    hear, hear

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    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Thank you Jean I'm never sure if I'm putting my point across clearly or not

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    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    you always do

    and what you said now is a perfect final touch to my theory about the evil in King's novels being vincible and vulnerable - provided the good guys stand and are true - and his villains ultimately ridiculous and able to triumph only over feeble souls.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I'm starting to think that perhaps King sometimes kills off his biggest "baddies" with seemingly irrelevant characters as a kind of ultimate punishment/insult to evil.
    So, instead of letting them go out in a blaze of glory with someone they'd consider an equal adversary, he snuffs them out with as little pomp and ceremony as they deserve.

    The cross dog is like that.
    I don't agree. There are plenty of King villains that go out with a bang...I think of
    Spoiler:
    Walter, George Stark, Pennywise etc.
    For me its not a matter of King spending a lot of time worrying about "giving an popular or powerful villain a big exit" but just what comes to him as he is writing.
    He's said over and over in various publications and interviews that he doesn't have a conscious writing style but one that flows from his under-mind.
    The cross dog is just an example of a bizarre twist in King's story. One that left thinking to myself..."Damn! Didn't see that one coming!"
    Last edited by Letti; 01-17-2009 at 02:02 AM.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    I'm with CK on this. I thought the turn about was a great addition, but I can see you side of it JohnBlaze

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I'm starting to think that perhaps King sometimes kills off his biggest "baddies" with seemingly irrelevant characters as a kind of ultimate punishment/insult to evil.
    So, instead of letting them go out in a blaze of glory with someone they'd consider an equal adversary, he snuffs them out with as little pomp and ceremony as they deserve.

    The cross dog is like that.
    I don't agree. There are plenty of King villains that go out with a bang...I think of Walter, George Stark, Pennywise etc. For me its not a matter of King spending a lot of time worrying about "giving an popular or powerful villain a big exit" but just what comes to him as he is writing.
    He's said over and over in various publications and interviews that he doesn't have a conscious writing style but one that flows from his under-mind.
    The cross dog is just an example of a bizarre twist in King's story. One that left thinking to myself..."Damn! Didn't see that one coming!"
    But Pennywise was defeated by a bunch of kids - whom despite finishing him/her off as adults - were still "losers" and totally underestimated by Pennywise.

    I didn't think Mordred was a worthy adversary in his infant state, and he was also underestimated by Walter/Flagg.

    Can't comment on Stark, thats one I haven't encountered yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    But Pennywise was defeated by a bunch of kids - whom despite finishing him/her off as adults - were still "losers" and totally underestimated by Pennywise.

    I didn't think Mordred was a worthy adversary in his infant state, and he was also underestimated by Walter/Flagg.

    Can't comment on Stark, thats one I haven't encountered yet.
    Well you can have your opinions on that of course, but my point still stands about King's writing style. He's not sitting at his Mac worried about what the CR folk would think about the cross dog killing the head villain of the story.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Goldmember Míchéal is on a distinguished road

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    what exactly does deus ex machina mean?

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    From Wiki



    The phrase has been extended to refer to any resolution to a story that does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic and is so unlikely that it challenges suspension of disbelief, allowing the author to conclude the story with an unlikely, though more palatable, ending.
    In modern terms the deus ex machina has also come to describe a being, object or event that suddenly appears and solves a seemingly insoluble difficulty, where the author has "painted the characters into a corner" that they can't easily be extricated from (e.g. the cavalier unexpectedly coming to the rescue, or James Bond using a gadget that just so happens to be perfectly suited to the needs of the situation).
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

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    Goldmember Míchéal is on a distinguished road

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    ah ha... now i get it... jeez they're so commen

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    BUt the kids all had talents, and putting them talents together made them formidable.

    Comparing the dog's defeat of the vamp to the loser's club defeat of pennywise is stupid, they're not even in the same league.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I remember wondering what the purpose of the dog was going to be when I intially encountered it. But it didn't jar with me, I quite liked it.

    Infact, I'm coming to see
    Spoiler:
    Flagg's death at the hands of Mordred in much the same way.
    I'm starting to think that perhaps King sometimes kills off his biggest "baddies" with seemingly irrelevant characters as a kind of ultimate punishment/insult to evil.
    So, instead of letting them go out in a blaze of glory with someone they'd consider an equal adversary, he snuffs them out with as little pomp and ceremony as they deserve.

    The cross dog is like that.
    I thoroughly enjoyed this comment Lisa. Very insightful, and I think you are right on. Thank you for sharing.

  25. #25
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    I still can't agree. I should have made this a poll.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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