Westworld on HBO *Spoilers!*

[Still Servant]

Well... that went by shockingly fast.

[Merlin1958]

Nice job of kicking off the new season IMHO I liked that they pretty much picked right up where they left off and didn't do that "6 months has elaped" stuff these shows sometimes do.

Spoiler:

I mean they did, but they didn't if you know what I mean. BTW I called it with my son. Ford isn't exactly gone. There is some "Ghost in the machine" stuff going on!!! I told him that right after the last episode. Ford transferred his conscience into the code or hosts.

[TravelinJack]

Looking forward to watching the new season.

[RUBE]

Weird that no one is talking about this show. It's great. I was worried about how it would go once we started wandering beyond the Westworld park but what they have shown us so far of the real world (even though it has mainly been flash backs) has only added to the story and it's mystery.

[Merlin1958]

Weird that no one is talking about this show. It's great. I was worried about how it would go once we started wandering beyond the Westworld park but what they have shown us so far of the real world (even though it has mainly been flash backs) has only added to the story and it's mystery.

I for one am loving it!!! I just don't have much for discussion........................................ ....................yet. There is much information still to be gathered, IMHO Nevertheless, the best show on television, hands down IMO Still a couple of great nuggets this week. Delos, the bengal lady as TMIB daughter and that mysterious other control module. I called the, Delos thing to a degree last year. I figured immortality to be a goal. I don't think they were really trying all out to save, Delos. I still think Ford and/or Arnold were successful at it but perhaps in a different form. More along the lines of "Ghost in the machine" rather than actual physical form. There is much more to that story to be told. Imagine the power to replace key folks with virtual puppets.

[Bev Vincent]

I like to pretend that I understand what's going on in this show, but most of the time I'm completely lost. I keep forgetting that Jimmi Simpson and Ed Harris are playing the same character, for example.

[Merlin1958]

I like to pretend that I understand what's going on in this show, but most of the time I'm completely lost. I keep forgetting that Jimmi Simpson and Ed Harris are playing the same character, for example.

I know what you mean!!!! lol Sometimes I wish I had a scorecard. lol

BTW, anyone else think it a little weird the way, Logan was just dispatched? Could he have some deeper significance to be revealed at a later date?

[allasorte]

I feel Logan is an after thought and could never be the man William is.
I was curious as to who the mystery woman was......and I guessed right. However, is she really human? I am curious about William's endgame. Perhaps he is the new hybrid and doesn't know? So far I really enjoy this season.

[Merlin1958]

I feel Logan is an after thought and could never be the man William is.
I was curious as to who the mystery woman was......and I guessed right. However, is she really human? I am curious about William's endgame. Perhaps he is the new hybrid and doesn't know? So far I really enjoy this season.

I think, William is definitely human and his story is his own meaning he is not involved in the secret agenda's and such of the board, etc. His daughter showing up may prove me wrong, but I still feel he has his own plot and demons aside from the other goings on in the park.

[allasorte]

Thoughts so far? Anyone feel it is a tad hard to follow with the jumping timelines? Any complaints? Last season I enjoyed and rooted for certain characters, now I am not sure where their path is going. Dolores for example, she was such an innocent and now she is on a murderous rampage I feel she will never come back from.

What about Maeve's new voice? I'm at odds with this.

[RUBE]

Dolores is violating Teddy the same way the humans violated all of them and killed many that didn't meet her standards so she is not nearly the "hero" she once was.

Maeve is a little more sympathetic because she isn't taking control of the others unless they force her to and she is trying to save the innocent ones like her "daughter" and the two geishas. Then again, she left her lover like it was nothing when it helped her escape. Of course she is way over-powered now. They are going to have to do something to level the playing field back in her story at some point.

[Merlin1958]

Dolores is violating Teddy the same way the humans violated all of them and killed many that didn't meet her standards so she is not nearly the "hero" she once was.

Maeve is a little more sympathetic because she isn't taking control of the others unless they force her to and she is trying to save the innocent ones like her "daughter" and the two geishas. Then again, she left her lover like it was nothing when it helped her escape. Of course she is way over-powered now. They are going to have to do something to level the playing field back in her story at some point.

I may be wrong, but IMHO none of the robots are truly "alive" and acting of their own free will & accord. To me, each has it's own differing level of "freedom" so to speak but are still acting according to an underlaying plan instituted by Ford and/or possibly Arnold. meaning things are still not quite what they seem. Of course, that doesn't mean I think I have any answers yet LOL

[Still Servant]

You are correct, you're wrong.

[Merlin1958]

I knew, Ford was/is still pulling strings!!! The hosts are only as "alive" as Ford allows them to be. He still has an agenda and is somehow "alive" himself inside the system. The couple of conversations "Young Ford" and Larry's daughter had with MIB were the telltale leading up to tonight's reveal, IMHO.

Spoiler:

Ford, had/has one helluva "God Complex" that's for sure. I think he intends to eliminate mankind and replace it with his new species (so to speak) the hosts in which case he will be the "Man"!!!

Spoiler:

Then again, I may be totally full of shit as well!! lol lol lol

[RUBE]

So Ford used Bernard as a practice run for copying a person (as seen by Dolores testing his "fidelity") like William is trying to do with his father-in-law Delos. Then he uses Bernard to make a copy of himself using the exact same equipment that they are failing to make Delos with and Benard takes that copy and uploads it into the park mainframe or "cradle."

First off, how do none of the people notice a copy of Arnold around? Did they fire everyone and hire a new staff after Arnold died? Second, how are the Delos people so oblivious to what Ford was up to? Last, what is Ford's goal here. He may be able to control everything in the park but where does that lead? Is he going to hitch a ride in the data they are exporting and take over other systems?

[Merlin1958]

So Ford used Bernard as a practice run for copying a person (as seen by Dolores testing his "fidelity") like William is trying to do with his father-in-law Delos. Then he uses Bernard to make a copy of himself using the exact same equipment that they are failing to make Delos with and Benard takes that copy and uploads it into the park mainframe or "cradle."

First off, how do none of the people notice a copy of Arnold around? Did they fire everyone and hire a new staff after Arnold died? Second, how are the Delos people so oblivious to what Ford was up to? Last, what is Ford's goal here. He may be able to control everything in the park but where does that lead? Is he going to hitch a ride in the data they are exporting and take over other systems?

Okay, here's my lame attempt at this. First off, Ford has kept some key component/code out of Williams hands over the years. I get the sense that, William (and/or the Board) & Ford have been playing a game of cat & mouse for many years regarding the actual tech. Ford, absolutely knew just how to perform the transference, William had been testing on Delos and then gave up. I think, William and the Board were persuing the same goals for a long time until William gave it up and went another route as far as his ultimate goal.

Unless I missed something huge, there is no physical host that truly represents /is Arnold. Ford said he created, Bernard with, Arnold in mind, to be a better partner, I don't recall there being any physical representation of, Arnold. Arnold, was caucasian.

The Delos staff was duped by Ford as to the actual goings on because of the compartmentalization of all the processes. Also, it seems he utilized hosts and drones to perform most of the work and at secret locations throughout the park. I think, Ford perfected the conscience transfer William was after, but took it a step further eliminating the need for a body and transferring himself directly into the system/code. That way when he needed to be a physical body he could just pop up in any host i.e as young Ford and Larry's daughter. In that form he is very "God-Like" and I think he came to the conclusion (perhaps he also went a little nuts) that humanity had run its course and it was time for a new species, the hosts. Once humanity was eliminated or totally dominated and the world populated by hosts (self replicating) he would indeed be "God".

IDK, what do you folks think? I may not have it all nailed, but I feel like I am in the ballpark.

[RUBE]

Everything you said there seems plausible except that Arnold looked exactly like Bernard. The scene we saw earlier this season with them about to pitch the idea to Logan Delos had Arnold showing Delores his home not Bernard. Also when Bernard originally looks at the picture of Ford he doesn't see Arnold because of his programming. There is a weird blank space at the end of the picture then. But after he starts realizing what he is he sees Arnold in the picture. The third person in the middle of the picture is a "host" made to look like Ford's father.

[Still Servant]

You are correct, you're wrong.

To the coward who would rather send a reputation point instead of commenting, yes, it was necessary.

I know it wasn't Merlin because he has me blocked.

[allasorte]

You are correct, you're wrong.

To the coward who would rather send a reputation point instead of commenting, yes, it was necessary.

I know it wasn't Merlin because he has me blocked.

Negative feedback for what? You stating wrong or right? My thought was simply Bill was perhaps wrong and or perhaps right. We don't know for sure until we go further down the rabbit hole. I enjoy all the confusion and hidden meanings of this show; love it actually.

[Merlin1958]

Everything you said there seems plausible except that Arnold looked exactly like Bernard. The scene we saw earlier this season with them about to pitch the idea to Logan Delos had Arnold showing Delores his home not Bernard. Also when Bernard originally looks at the picture of Ford he doesn't see Arnold because of his programming. There is a weird blank space at the end of the picture then. But after he starts realizing what he is he sees Arnold in the picture. The third person in the middle of the picture is a "host" made to look like Ford's father.

But wasn't there a picture shown, by Ford to Bernard in S1, that showed Ford, Bernard and Arnold? And wasn't Arnold a caucasian? Plus didn't Ford say that he built Bernard to replace Arnold and to be a better partner? I don't recall the Host as Ford's Father being mentioned in the picture, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. My memory ain't what it used to be.

[RUBE]

Google "picture of Ford and Arnold Westworld." The first two pictures are one with only two dudes and one with all three that Bernard can see later on.

I will admit I didn't remember the "father" thing until I looked it up. There was an episode last year where Bernard went to where there were some unregistered hosts (or something like that) and it turned out to be Ford's secret base which included a host version of his father that Arnold made him. That host looks exactly like the man in the picture. Bernard even says "Arnold?" because he could only see him and Ford in the picture the first time. Soon after, Bernard finds out he is a host and he can see Arnold in the picture then because he no longer needs to be shielded from the truth (or at least that part of it.)

Ford still thinks he made a "better" Arnold but the two still look the same and are played by the same actor.

[allasorte]

Everything you said there seems plausible except that Arnold looked exactly like Bernard. The scene we saw earlier this season with them about to pitch the idea to Logan Delos had Arnold showing Delores his home not Bernard. Also when Bernard originally looks at the picture of Ford he doesn't see Arnold because of his programming. There is a weird blank space at the end of the picture then. But after he starts realizing what he is he sees Arnold in the picture. The third person in the middle of the picture is a "host" made to look like Ford's father.

But wasn't there a picture shown, by Ford to Bernard in S1, that showed Ford, Bernard and Arnold? And wasn't Arnold a caucasian? Plus didn't Ford say that he built Bernard to replace Arnold and to be a better partner? I don't recall the Host as Ford's Father being mentioned in the picture, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. My memory ain't what it used to be.

The picture initially was of Ford and a white guy. I believe Rube is right, the white guy is Ford's father. When the picture is shown again, Arnold is also in it when shown to Bernard so Bernard can really "see." Arnold Weber is an anagram for Bernard Lowe. Really smart play.

[RUBE]

Appears Merlin is right about the Ford God complex stuff and I was right about Arnold/Bernard, and we were both wrong about Ford being able to copy himself successfully. Ford said in this episode that his copy only works "in here" which I take to mean in the background hiding in the programming. He went on to say he would degrade and go crazy like Delos' copy if he was out there. He is just hitching a ride in Bernard's programming not fully operating his body (except for brief moments when he is forced to.) He also said Bernard works because he is not an exact copy of Arnold's mind.

[Merlin1958]

Appears Merlin is right about the Ford God complex stuff and I was right about Arnold/Bernard, and we were both wrong about Ford being able to copy himself successfully. Ford said in this episode that his copy only works "in here" which I take to mean in the background hiding in the programming. He went on to say he would degrade and go crazy like Delos' copy if he was out there. He is just hitching a ride in Bernard's programming not fully operating his body (except for brief moments when he is forced to.) He also said Bernard works because he is not an exact copy of Arnold's mind.

God, I do LOVE this show!!!! Gonna take a flyer here, but I think the reason they degrade (Delos, etc) is due to them being severed from the system. Delos', transferred mind was done in the system and once severed began to degrade. Ford, was not really alive in the physical sense when talking to Bernard he was a "ghost in the machine" so to speak. Dolores & Bernard can operate outside the system (Ithink a few others are capable as well Maeve for instance) so Bernard is Ford's ticket to immortality because he can hitch a ride with Bernard. So actually, Ford was successful in copying himself into the system. He doesn't really want a physical presence in the traditional sense I think.

Got to go back and watch again cause I missed a good portion of the conversation Ford had in Arnold's house.

[Merlin1958]

No thoughts this week?