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Thread: Betts Books (Temporary) Alternative

  1. #1
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    Default Betts Books (Temporary) Alternative

    Betts Books (Temporary) Alternative.

    David's recent post(s) about selling his Neil Gaiman collection has prompted me to start this thread. David posted sales on THIS SITE ONLY for 2 days to allow "genuine collectors" first choice of obtaining these books.

    What a wonderful idea! We are all genuine collectors of books and appreciate the quality and perfection of "limited editions" and "special editions". We also spend more money than anyone else on the planet on this type of book!

    I have tracked the sales of Stephen King books for over 20 years and consider myself a good source of, "what is this book worth" queries.

    I would like to start a discussion on the merits of giving the collectors on this, "Premer Stephen King Collectors" site 2 days Grace/Priority to purchase books from David at Betts Bookstore before the "rest of the world".

    My main gripe that has prompted this post is one of David's "Best Customers". Example:

    David lists a book for sale at $4,000 and the first person who manages to buy this book is a well known bookseller. (They are lucky enough to be first to see the listing) This person then then relists this books on their website at $12,000.

    No-one in their right mind would ever buy this book at $12,000, but the "well known bookseller" keeps it on their site for 20 or more years at this stupid price.

    This book is now "outwith the community" of genuine-every-day-collectors who know the true value of the book in question.

    This book is now LOST to the communty, and is indirectly the fault of our best mate David, who is only trying to make a living as we all are.

    My suggestion is what David has already done with Gaimen books. 2-days "grace" for members of this site to purchase books before they go on general sale.

    Discuss...

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    Love it! Great idea. I'm sure David will be all over it, as he will sell them either way. Great thread Mr.Rabbit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunyip View Post
    Love it! Great idea. I'm sure David will be all over it, as he will sell them either way. Great thread Mr.Rabbit.
    I really like the idea and what he did for the Gaiman listings - it also might be a way to judge the prices he lists at as well - if there is a lot of inventory after 2 days - then he might slightly adjust the prices when placing them on Betts site - but for those that are missing one book - they would be happy to pay a little more to get it directly from David. I did not need anything from the Gaiman listing - the prices on some items are slightly high from my own estimation based upon what has sold on eBay - but the listing he put up was a great and comprehensive amount of books.

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    Brilliant idea. David loses nothing and site members gain.

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    I'm always disappointed to see an item that was sold through Betts immediately show up somewhere else for a ridiculous price. This is just my personal opinion, but it comes across to me as a 'turning up the nose' to the rest of the community, like the original pricing was for the peasants. Again, that's just how I personally feel about it. I know that it's a free market and David himself has said that he doesn't mind at all when his customers buy for the purpose of reselling.

    I love the suggestion that members of this site get a crack at new items before the rest of the world. I think it would cut down on what Mr. Rabbit Trick brought up and would also give members here an edge in this very competitive market. But I have to be honest, I don't think David should feel in any way obligated or pressured to do this. I know that I check Betts multiple times a day for updates, but I probably wouldn't if I could just check here (since I'm always looking on this site anyway). That's an automatic -1 for Betts website traffic.

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    Nice thread. Yes, makes good sense. Prioritises true collectors who purchase for the passion and appreciation of the literature / artistic merit of these items, and avoids that stupid scenario that you illustrate. Although not a perfect remedy (as it doesn't stop said booksellers becoming members of the site and still doing the same thing [and some may already be members, I think?]), but it's a good narrowing of the problem.

    (Oh, and apologies for the plethora of parentheses and brackets...)

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    I Understand the thought behind this....however, my fear for Betts is what happens when one of his high end buyers catches on or finds out? David may lose in the long run and I don't believe any of us would want that to happen.

    Sure, the high end buyer can become a member here...yada yada yada.....but I'm not convinced they would take it lightly.

    Just thinking outside the box a little.

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    I'm curious what percentage of his customers this group is. I understand where 'true collectors' would get first shot, but I question it from a business perspective. If he ended up only posting the leftovers on his site, how would that look to other collectors who aren't affiliated with TDT.org? I could imagine those customers just seeing a small handful of books available time and time again, and then eventually give up, and stop visiting Betts Books.

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    If David were doing this with Stephen King books, I imagine his other customers might take issue. But I don't recall seeing many (if any) Gaiman books for sale by Betts. I think David's giving us first dibs is a nice gesture, and I'm sure that even if his other customers find out, there wouldn't be too much fuss. Besides, how could you NOT like David?!?

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    I think it's a cool idea. Of course, whether or not it makes business sense for Bett's will be David's decision.
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    Interesting idea, but it's David's call. If I was him, I'd probably just keep posting on my site, with a quick notice to us here moments before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorZaius View Post
    Interesting idea, but it's David's call. If I was him, I'd probably just keep posting on my site, with a quick notice to us here moments before.
    I agree. That's a safe way to do it I think...
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    Looks like it's just Webstar's items he has been trying to sell here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aronstg View Post
    Looks like it's just Webstar's items he has been trying to sell here.
    Yep. The first upload I have confirmed are all my stuff I sent to David a week or so ago. They are no longer listed here...
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    I'm surprised no one has snatched up that remarqued Carrie. Maybe you should have David post what number it is. If someone hasn't already preordered the rest of the series that would be a great opportunity to try to get a fully remarqued set.

    Or if they have already pre-ordered the set I am sure they could change their number to match he remarqued copy and try to sell their original book. Just some suggestions for people who were thinking of getting a remarqued set.

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    I am 99% sure that Carrie is a Gift Edition and not the Numbered Artist Edition. It is not the first time David has referenced the Gift edition of that book as being the Artist edition.

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    Ahh... then yes that listing is misleading.

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    Well, food for thought with all these posts....first off, I will correct listing to day Carrie Artist Edition (not Gift edition). It's hard to keep straight what is Gift, Artist, Deluxe etc.

    As to Gaiman listing....as it is NOT King, I felt I should offer to my friends here first....I tried to put what I thought were realistic prices but given response has been pitiful, I can only surmise my prices are too high. I will adjust soon.

    I am only going from quick memory here as lots of thoughts were put forth above but:

    I'd say 50% of my Betts sales come from members here, maybe even less than that. I'd say 70% of my 10 biggest customers are NOT members here.

    I have one very significant customer who is also in the book reselling business but he sells LOTS of authors and specializes in rare, signed editions. He CLEARLY has a very different customer base/income demographic that does Betts. He buys almost $30,000 in stuff from me a year and relists it on his site at sometimes DOUBLE the price....some things remain unsold, but MANY TIMES he finds a customer at his prices. Here is one example....more than a year ago, I put up a complete Dark Tower S/L set (not same numbers) and I had zero interest at $9500. This reseller offered to list this set on consignment (he charges 30% to my 15%) for $14,500 and he sold it within 3 months and I netted about $10,000! If he wants to buy from me and find someone else to buy at his prices, more power to him.

    I cannot control what people buy from me only to resell at higher prices, though I did recently retract items on consignment that a person bought from me at discounted prices and then try to flip through me right away at higher prices.

    Here is another thing....sometimes I find items at REALLY good prices...while I DO TRY to make money on a resale, I will NOT mark an item up 300% to make a maximum profit...I will pass my good fortune in finding that item at lower prices on to my customers at below what i think the market rate is. This does not happen often, but for instance, if I buy what I think is a $2000 value item for $1000, I'll offer it for $1500, not $2000....I try to share my good fortune WITH my customers while also makimg money for myself.

    Never will I please 100% of my customers....that is hard for me to admit cause I'm a "pleaser" kind of a person, it's just how I was built...it is always my goal, but not one I can always achieve. Sometimes I please at my own personal expense....a short story involving 2 high ernd customers (one a well-known member here, the other not)....I had a personal high-end item I was considering selling to raise $$ to buy something else. My non-customer expressed interest in said item (privately, it came up in private telephone discussion) but I am 100% certain he asked me to sell the item to him at my cost, which I said I was not willing to do...short time later, a member here learned of this item I had and negotiated a price I thought was fair (said item now worth DOUBLE what he paid!). I sold him the item.....months later Non-member asked about the item and I told him I sold it...he got really upset with me and said I promised him I'd sell at my cost to him...I told him that was not the case and was sure of my position...however, to appease my Non-member, I sold him a S/L Nebel from my collection (which he had wanted) for my cost, even though Nebel was worth more than $1000 higher. So I "lost" a book I REALLY liked AND I sold it for a nonsense price...just to appease a customer who was pissed off. I won't do that every time, but doing that for the Non-member was worth it to me.

    Am sure I did not address all concerns, but I strive to be as fair as I can in dealing with people....there are customers who refresh their Betts page multiple times a day...it is why I know I've sold 4 Lettered Regulators all at $4000+ in less than 2 minutes each time. Some people are incredible quick at snatching up stuff if it is priced well. Other rare stuff has sold almost immediately as well for the same reason. I can't control that.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardsrainbow View Post
    Well, food for thought with all these posts....first off, I will correct listing to day Carrie Artist Edition (not Gift edition). It's hard to keep straight what is Gift, Artist, Deluxe etc.

    As to Gaiman listing....as it is NOT King, I felt I should offer to my friends here first....I tried to put what I thought were realistic prices but given response has been pitiful, I can only surmise my prices are too high. I will adjust soon.

    I am only going from quick memory here as lots of thoughts were put forth above but:

    I'd say 50% of my Betts sales come from members here, maybe even less than that. I'd say 70% of my 10 biggest customers are NOT members here.

    I have one very significant customer who is also in the book reselling business but he sells LOTS of authors and specializes in rare, signed editions. He CLEARLY has a very different customer base/income demographic that does Betts. He buys almost $30,000 in stuff from me a year and relists it on his site at sometimes DOUBLE the price....some things remain unsold, but MANY TIMES he finds a customer at his prices. Here is one example....more than a year ago, I put up a complete Dark Tower S/L set (not same numbers) and I had zero interest at $9500. This reseller offered to list this set on consignment (he charges 30% to my 15%) for $14,500 and he sold it within 3 months and I netted about $10,000! If he wants to buy from me and find someone else to buy at his prices, more power to him.

    I cannot control what people buy from me only to resell at higher prices, though I did recently retract items on consignment that a person bought from me at discounted prices and then try to flip through me right away at higher prices.

    Here is another thing....sometimes I find items at REALLY good prices...while I DO TRY to make money on a resale, I will NOT mark an item up 300% to make a maximum profit...I will pass my good fortune in finding that item at lower prices on to my customers at below what i think the market rate is. This does not happen often, but for instance, if I buy what I think is a $2000 value item for $1000, I'll offer it for $1500, not $2000....I try to share my good fortune WITH my customers while also makimg money for myself.

    Never will I please 100% of my customers....that is hard for me to admit cause I'm a "pleaser" kind of a person, it's just how I was built...it is always my goal, but not one I can always achieve. Sometimes I please at my own personal expense....a short story involving 2 high ernd customers (one a well-known member here, the other not)....I had a personal high-end item I was considering selling to raise $$ to buy something else. My non-customer expressed interest in said item (privately, it came up in private telephone discussion) but I am 100% certain he asked me to sell the item to him at my cost, which I said I was not willing to do...short time later, a member here learned of this item I had and negotiated a price I thought was fair (said item now worth DOUBLE what he paid!). I sold him the item.....months later Non-member asked about the item and I told him I sold it...he got really upset with me and said I promised him I'd sell at my cost to him...I told him that was not the case and was sure of my position...however, to appease my Non-member, I sold him a S/L Nebel from my collection (which he had wanted) for my cost, even though Nebel was worth more than $1000 higher. So I "lost" a book I REALLY liked AND I sold it for a nonsense price...just to appease a customer who was pissed off. I won't do that every time, but doing that for the Non-member was worth it to me.

    Am sure I did not address all concerns, but I strive to be as fair as I can in dealing with people....there are customers who refresh their Betts page multiple times a day...it is why I know I've sold 4 Lettered Regulators all at $4000+ in less than 2 minutes each time. Some people are incredible quick at snatching up stuff if it is priced well. Other rare stuff has sold almost immediately as well for the same reason. I can't control that.

    Still at other job, better go do that work!
    In all of my years book collecting, Stephen King and other authors, I've never encountered a seller as stand-up, personable, and with as much integrity as you. Someone whose passion is clearly the priority and deals MORE than fair. You keep up the excellent work David. You're an asset to this community.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by peripheral View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardsrainbow View Post
    Well, food for thought with all these posts....first off, I will correct listing to day Carrie Artist Edition (not Gift edition). It's hard to keep straight what is Gift, Artist, Deluxe etc.

    As to Gaiman listing....as it is NOT King, I felt I should offer to my friends here first....I tried to put what I thought were realistic prices but given response has been pitiful, I can only surmise my prices are too high. I will adjust soon.

    I am only going from quick memory here as lots of thoughts were put forth above but:

    I'd say 50% of my Betts sales come from members here, maybe even less than that. I'd say 70% of my 10 biggest customers are NOT members here.

    I have one very significant customer who is also in the book reselling business but he sells LOTS of authors and specializes in rare, signed editions. He CLEARLY has a very different customer base/income demographic that does Betts. He buys almost $30,000 in stuff from me a year and relists it on his site at sometimes DOUBLE the price....some things remain unsold, but MANY TIMES he finds a customer at his prices. Here is one example....more than a year ago, I put up a complete Dark Tower S/L set (not same numbers) and I had zero interest at $9500. This reseller offered to list this set on consignment (he charges 30% to my 15%) for $14,500 and he sold it within 3 months and I netted about $10,000! If he wants to buy from me and find someone else to buy at his prices, more power to him.

    I cannot control what people buy from me only to resell at higher prices, though I did recently retract items on consignment that a person bought from me at discounted prices and then try to flip through me right away at higher prices.

    Here is another thing....sometimes I find items at REALLY good prices...while I DO TRY to make money on a resale, I will NOT mark an item up 300% to make a maximum profit...I will pass my good fortune in finding that item at lower prices on to my customers at below what i think the market rate is. This does not happen often, but for instance, if I buy what I think is a $2000 value item for $1000, I'll offer it for $1500, not $2000....I try to share my good fortune WITH my customers while also makimg money for myself.

    Never will I please 100% of my customers....that is hard for me to admit cause I'm a "pleaser" kind of a person, it's just how I was built...it is always my goal, but not one I can always achieve. Sometimes I please at my own personal expense....a short story involving 2 high ernd customers (one a well-known member here, the other not)....I had a personal high-end item I was considering selling to raise $$ to buy something else. My non-customer expressed interest in said item (privately, it came up in private telephone discussion) but I am 100% certain he asked me to sell the item to him at my cost, which I said I was not willing to do...short time later, a member here learned of this item I had and negotiated a price I thought was fair (said item now worth DOUBLE what he paid!). I sold him the item.....months later Non-member asked about the item and I told him I sold it...he got really upset with me and said I promised him I'd sell at my cost to him...I told him that was not the case and was sure of my position...however, to appease my Non-member, I sold him a S/L Nebel from my collection (which he had wanted) for my cost, even though Nebel was worth more than $1000 higher. So I "lost" a book I REALLY liked AND I sold it for a nonsense price...just to appease a customer who was pissed off. I won't do that every time, but doing that for the Non-member was worth it to me.

    Am sure I did not address all concerns, but I strive to be as fair as I can in dealing with people....there are customers who refresh their Betts page multiple times a day...it is why I know I've sold 4 Lettered Regulators all at $4000+ in less than 2 minutes each time. Some people are incredible quick at snatching up stuff if it is priced well. Other rare stuff has sold almost immediately as well for the same reason. I can't control that.

    Still at other job, better go do that work!
    In all of my years book collecting, Stephen King and other authors, I've never encountered a seller as stand-up, personable, and with as much integrity as you. Someone whose passion is clearly the priority and deals MORE than fair. You keep up the excellent work David. You're an asset to this community.
    I could not have said it better. He has ALWAYS done right by me EVERYTIME. Good job David... no... GREAT JOB DAVID!
    HELP ME FIND
    Insomnia #459
    ANY S/L #459

  22. #22
    Wizard of End-World wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow has a brilliant future wizardsrainbow's Avatar

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    LOL...Thank you for the kind words.....you know how hard it is to set the bar so high and continuously surpass? I do work hard at it. My wife tells me though all the time that I'm too nice and giving to my customers and reminds me I have 2 boys in college and a daughter headed there in 2 more years...LOL. I tell her NOT to worry!

    Dragline : Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me - with nothin'.
    Luke : Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand
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  23. #23
    Servant of Gan Pasiuk57 is a jewel in the rough Pasiuk57 is a jewel in the rough Pasiuk57 is a jewel in the rough Pasiuk57's Avatar

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    David-you have been nothing short of a class act to deal with!
    You will never please everyone, but I would say you are at the 99+%...
    Keep the good stuff coming!

  24. #24
    Two Gunslingers Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis has much to be proud of Lookwhoitis's Avatar

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    Thanks for all you do, David!
    Wanted
    CD Carrie Portfolio 719
    Dark Tower S/N LE's 171 or 203
    ANY Stephen King S/N LE #171 or 719

    A Storm of Swords #218 or 346
    Ancillary Justice #455
    American Gods (+ SC Reader copy) #624

    Michael Whelan original art
    DT VII: Michael Whelan Remarque

  25. #25
    Citizen of Gilead AstroDad is a name known to all AstroDad is a name known to all AstroDad is a name known to all AstroDad is a name known to all AstroDad is a name known to all AstroDad is a name known to all AstroDad's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardsrainbow View Post
    Well, food for thought with all these posts....first off, I will correct listing to day Carrie Artist Edition (not Gift edition). It's hard to keep straight what is Gift, Artist, Deluxe etc.
    It is actually the Gift Edition (not Artist Edition)

    I agree it can be hard to keep straight. Generally, it seems fairly consistent that signed by the Artist (and not the author) = Artist Edition, but the fact that the Cemetery Artist edition is numbered is what I think throws things off in our minds. It FEELS like a S/L with the nice Traycases, etc. So the slipcased edition feels like an Artist edition.

    Ignoring the nicer features than most Artist Editions CD is giving us with this series, I eel like the standard is (or should be):

    Nicer edition than trade, limited run, but not signed by anyone = Gift Edition
    Limited run signed by artist, but not author = Artist Edition
    More limited run signed by Author, may also be signed by Artist = S/L Edition

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