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Thread: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow (and other DC TV shows)

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    Default GOTHAM -- The TV Series

    So who saw it? What did you think of it? Etc.,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

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    I picked up a shift at work so I can watch the premiere.

    I dug it. I felt they tried to cram maybe a little much into one episode (Penguin, Catwoman, Bruce and Gordon origins) but hey, it's a pilot, they had to introduce the players so people know what the show's about. Dialogue and acting was pretty good, if a little too safe. Again, I don't think they wanted to ruffle too many feathers with a pilot.

    First impression was solid. Good cop drama and I hope the show stays focused on Gordon and how he cleaned house in GCPD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeDealInLead View Post
    I picked up a shift at work so I can watch the premiere.

    I dug it. I felt they tried to cram maybe a little much into one episode (Penguin, Catwoman, Bruce and Gordon origins) but hey, it's a pilot, they had to introduce the players so people know what the show's about. Dialogue and acting was pretty good, if a little too safe. Again, I don't think they wanted to ruffle too many feathers with a pilot.

    First impression was solid. Good cop drama and I hope the show stays focused on Gordon and how he cleaned house in GCPD.
    I'm certainly no "Batman" expert, but does he really "clean up" GCPD? Doesn't he just establish a foothold with the "Major Crimes Unit" by the start of "Batman Begins"? I'm just wondering as to continuity. Are they gonna take the timeline to the Nolan movies and follow "movie" canon?. Just curious is all. I set my DVR for the show, looking forward to it.

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    I watched it last night and really enjoyed it. I agree that there was a little too much introduced in the first episode, but think that it'll start to get more focused as the show goes on.

    Random thoughts:

    - Really liked Oswald's character

    - Did Thomas and Martha's murders seem really abrupt to anyone else?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    I'm certainly no "Batman" expert, but does he really "clean up" GCPD? Doesn't he just establish a foothold with the "Major Crimes Unit" by the start of "Batman Begins"? I'm just wondering as to continuity. Are they gonna take the timeline to the Nolan movies and follow "movie" canon?. Just curious is all. I set my DVR for the show, looking forward to it.
    No, they're not going to link up with Nolan's films in any way. It's its own thing.

    To your question though, in the comics Gordon doesn't necessarily clean house.. more like he learns to be as efficient as he can despite the corruption that plagues the GCPD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    I watched it last night and really enjoyed it. I agree that there was a little too much introduced in the first episode, but think that it'll start to get more focused as the show goes on.

    Random thoughts:

    - Really liked Oswald's character

    - Did Thomas and Martha's murders seem really abrupt to anyone else?
    Oswald's character was great. Really like the kid they got to play Bruce. He played vulnerable remarkably well for a 12 year old actor.

    Maybe it's just the symptom of it being a pilot, but it was as subtle as a sledge hammer. Some of those introductions were cringe worthy -- standing "Ivy" next to a plant? Groan. And pretty much all that Nigma needed to do was smile and wink at the camera and say "Hey kids, I'll be the Riddler in a few seasons."

    One thing that really bothered me was Gotham's look. Idk if they were going for grimy / gritty, but the color palette they chose to shoot it in makes the city look really anti septic. It's too... neon-y.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

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    No, in my opinion, this is too neon-y:


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    Hahaha.

    Touche, my good man. Touche.

    But really though, it felt like the whole thign was shot in one of those obnoxious Instagram filters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

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    Quote Originally Posted by fernandito View Post
    One thing that really bothered me was Gotham's look. Idk if they were going for grimy / gritty, but the color palette they chose to shoot it in makes the city look really anti septic. It's too... neon-y.
    That was actually something I really liked. I mean, you can definitely tell that a lot of the cityscape is CGI, but I think it actually works well since it makes it look dark and gritty. But I definitely know what you're talking about (and agree to an extent) since some scenes had an almost yellow tint.

    And LOL at your Edward comment.
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    Soooooooooo, last night's ep...

    Did it restore your faith in the show? Exacerbate your doubts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

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    LOVED the last episode.

    I REALLY like the Penguin character. He seems like such a respectful, genuinely friendly guy, until you piss him off.

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    This show is pretty good... I am not sure how long it can endure though. People I think will begin to want Batman and they have made it clear that will not happen. I find myself already looking for a standout hero (not Jim Gordon either...)
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    The biggest question I have is that they stated they want the final scene to be Batman putting on the cowl. How the hell are they going to run a minimum of fifteen years? No show runs fifteen years anymore. Maybe they'll have flash forwards or time jumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
    The biggest question I have is that they stated they want the final scene to be Batman putting on the cowl. How the hell are they going to run a minimum of fifteen years? No show runs fifteen years anymore. Maybe they'll have flash forwards or time jumps.
    True... the kid is like what 12ish?
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    Not too shabby so far.... We shall see.

  15. #15
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    This Forbes review of Episode 2 perfectly encapsulates my feelings toward Gotham thus far:


    Gotham is an interesting twist on the Batman universe. Rather than tell a long coming-of-age story about the boy-who-would-become-the-bat, FOX and Warner Bros. decided to tell the story of Jim Gordon, the once-and-future Commissioner of Gotham City.

    Starring Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as his corrupt-but-affable partner Harvey Bullock, Gotham got off to a pretty great start last week. I wasn’t reviewing the show yet but decided to give it a whirl after watching the pilot.

    In the opening episode we see a familiar city: the fictional New York City of the DC Universe, a metropolis as bleak and corrupt as it is elegant and gorgeous. There’s something so old-school and appropriate about the mahogany-laced police department, you can almost smell the wood polish. Gotham captures all of this beautifully.

    McKenzie is a perfect casting choice for Gordon, reminiscent of a young Russell Crowe. It’s like he’s stepped off the set of L.A. Confidential. Logue, meanwhile—who I last saw playing a corrupt ex-US Marshal in Sons of Anarchy—is a crooked cop with a slightly withered, but still pretty big, heart. The two play off one another remarkably well, to the point that with a handful of exceptions I almost wish the show would try harder to be a buddy cop drama and little else.

    Gotham 2

    First, let’s talk about the exceptions to that—the characters that help emboss and enliven this story of Jim Gordon’s rise to power and his relentless effort to bring justice and honesty to a city laid low by corruption and malaise.

    Robin Lord Taylor is wonderfully creepy as a young Penguin, a more-than-slightly maniacal lackey destined to much bigger things. The show is a tad heavy-handed reminding us just who he’s supposed to be—then again, the last time we saw a Penguin on-screen (outside of animated Batman episodes) was Danny DeVito’s Penguin in Batman Returns, way back in 1992.

    While we haven’t seen much of him yet, I’m also rather fond of Sean Pertwee’s rendition of Alfred Pennyworth. Michael Cain is a lovely actor—in spite of the misspelling of his last name—but he was always too much Michael Cain and too little Alfred in the Dark Knight trilogy. Pertwee, on the other hand, is perfectly grumpy in Gotham. He’s the classic “Get off my lawn!” sort of curmudgeon, but obviously cares for the young Bruce Wayne enormously.

    John Doman as mob-boss Carmine Falcone is great as well. He reminds me a bit of Gene Hackman (or Evil Gene Hackman, rather) but without quite the star power, which I think is a good thing. In fact, the relative lack of “star power” in Gotham works greatly in the show’s favor. Nothing hinges on one actor’s huge fan-base, and everyone has the opportunity to settle into their roles comfortably, so long as the direction and writing keep pace.

    This is where Gotham is a bit more hit and miss so far. Along with less-than-stellar performances by some of the cast, including Jada Pinkett Smith’s performance as mob underling Fish Mooney, the writing is a bit off-kilter at times.

    On the one hand, you have some great dialogue between Gordon and Bullock. On the other, you have vengeful monologues by Mooney vowing to kill Falcone with her bare hands! And her teeth!

    I’m going to point out something about the show now that may ruffle some feathers or make some readers a little uncomfortable, but I’m going to say it regardless:

    Gotham seems to go out of its way to make sure men and women get equal air time even when some roles in question make way more sense filled by men rather than women, given the set-up.

    Mooney is one example of this. Maybe—maybe—played by the right actress or written the right way, Mooney’s character would make sense. But in the world of organized crime, in a city like Gotham, I just don’t see this particular character attempting to take on the city’s most influential and dangerous crime-lord. This isn’t to say we can’t have awesome female villains or criminals, it’s just that the character that is Fish Mooney makes more sense as one of Falcone’s inner circle. And in the world of organized crime, and presumably Italian organized crime, this is more than likely going to be a man. An Italian man. Jada Pinkett Smith seems wildly out of place in this world of film noire mobsters.

    It could be that I’m basing this on my less-than-stellar reception of Smith’s acting here, but I feel like she’s simply been poorly cast. There’s a place for a strong female badguy in a show like this. This just isn’t the right role, and it feels off to me. And frankly, Smith’s acting gets over-the-top in a way that just doesn’t fit.

    Zabryna Guevara, on the other hand, does a fine job as police Captain Sarah Essen. And she’d be a totally fine police Captain in Law & Order. But in corrupt “good ol’ boys” police-land that is Gotham City, it makes no sense at all to have a female police chief. It does two things: It enforces my belief that casting in Gotham was done purposefully with diversity in mind rather than believability and it makes the story less believable in the process. Why not focus on a strong female cop in the force? Essen is a throw-away character.

    I’m all for diversity, but I think it makes more sense to make a character like Catwoman a person of color (see Halle Berry) rather than expect us to believe that a mafia-run police department chalk full of good ol’ boys is going to have a female in charge.

    Gotham 1

    Finally, moving carefully away from the gender and diversity subject, I’m not entirely fond of the time period Gotham takes place in. While it’s beautifully shot and evokes an older era, it’s still a TV series that’s decidedly modern. Gordon’s pad (which he shares with the pristine-but-troubled Barbara Kean played by Erin Richards) is too rich and too modern and too…2014.

    I guess I was hoping for more than just a Gotham aesthetic; I wanted this to be more of a time period piece, taking place in a perhaps-undefinable past decade, some amalgam of the decades prior to cell phones and the internet, when comic books were only read on the offal of dead trees.

    Maybe this all plays into the weird grasping for diversity in the casting as well. I want a Gotham that feels corrupt and icky in all the ways it should—a Gotham that wouldn’t allow women to be powerful without a fight. That’s deeply in the clutches of an old aristocracy of power and crime and twisted government. Instead we have a Gotham that has a generic sort of crime problem but is pretty much otherwise just as diverse and progressive and okay as the New York City of 2014. Maybe more so.

    But the street-rat version of Catwoman is still a pretty white girl. Both the lead characters are still white dudes. It’s this empty effort at diversity-for-diversity’s sake that ignores realism and narrative in favor of inclusiveness and political correctness, all of which sends ripples through my ability to suspend my disbelief.

    Meanwhile the cinematography, the costume and set design, and a great deal of the acting and dialogue is top-notch. When I feel most present in Gotham is when I’m drinking in the city itself.

    I’m left wanting more; to dig deeper into this harrowing city. I’m excited that we have a Batman story that’s not about Batman. That we finally get to see the gritty underside of Gotham in a way that’s more L.A. Confidential or The Untouchables than The Dark Knight Rises.

    I have high hopes for Gotham after its first two episodes. But I have my doubts as well. So much hinges on creating believable characters in believable situations, even in a comic book story. After all, this is a show that seems to want very much to be more about the normals, the non-supers, the people down in the dirt…it just needs to be brave enough to get its own hands dirty in the process. Right now Gotham is too clean and its politics are too modern.

    Hopefully the show takes more risks and treats its characters with respect, even if that respect means placing them in far more difficult roles and situations than it has so far.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandito View Post
    One thing that really bothered me was Gotham's look. Idk if they were going for grimy / gritty, but the color palette they chose to shoot it in makes the city look really anti septic. It's too... neon-y.
    That was actually something I really liked. I mean, you can definitely tell that a lot of the cityscape is CGI, but I think it actually works well since it makes it look dark and gritty. But I definitely know what you're talking about (and agree to an extent) since some scenes had an almost yellow tint.
    I really like the cinematography as well. Probably the best-looking Gotham since Burton's. This has a lot of potential.

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    I like the show so far.

    But the city seems so sterile for a windy city with random papers blowing in the wind. Ya' just can't have it both ways.
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    Very good episode last night. The scene with the vigilante guy holding Harvey and Gordon hesitating foreshadowed Gordon's future...ah..."elasticity" when dealing with Bats.

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    Another excellent episode. I'm loving this show.

  20. #20
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    I know that they have to include him, but I almost wish that they focused less on Bruce in favor of Gotham's other residents.

    Also, I could really watch an entire show about Oswald's character.
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  21. #21
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    Just watched the first ep. So far, it's pretty hit and miss. The dialogue is cheesy as fuck as times, especially Bullock's. Every conversation he seemed to have with Gordon just seemed to be one cliche after another. Practically cheered when the best two came up: "rookie" and "hot shot". And yeah, agreed with others that at times, it was a little annoying how obvious it was with some of the characters, especially the Riddler and Ivy.

    But it's not all bad. I really like the Penguin's characterisation - still sadistic as fuck but ultimately powerless at this point. They picked exactly the right guy to play him, imho. Also liked how Bruce Wayne was portrayed - he's a kid, but he's still intelligent and highly observant, something I think the writers got spot on. He might not be the DC world's greatest detective yet, but the groundwork's there, at least.

    I'm eager to see how this show improves over time, once the writers have found their feet. Not the greatest start just yet, but the potential's definitely there.


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  22. #22
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    A decent episode, but probably my least favorite so far. Still better than most TV out there.

  23. #23
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    I am giving this show one or two more weeks... if it does not change for me I am out. No where near as good as Arrow or the Flash...
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by webstar1000 View Post
    I am giving this show one or two more weeks... if it does not change for me I am out. No where near as good as Arrow or the Flash...
    Yeah, The Flash was pretty good.
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  25. #25
    Goldmember webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000 has a reputation beyond repute webstar1000's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattgreenbean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by webstar1000 View Post
    I am giving this show one or two more weeks... if it does not change for me I am out. No where near as good as Arrow or the Flash...
    Yeah, The Flash was pretty good.
    Better than I thought... Going to keep going with that. Love the crossover with Arrow aspect too.
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