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Thread: The Great Music Tournament proposal

  1. #1
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    Default The Great Music Tournament proposal

    So I'm a big fan of all the various tournaments we've held here on our great forum and as I was just driving around, listening to the '90s station on my XM Radio I heard a bunch of great songs I probably haven't heard in over a decade. That got me thinking what a wonderful tournament it would be if we could do one based around music.

    I tried to think of some of the ways it could be structured, and there are many possibilities, but one way I could see it playing out would be for everyone to nominate pretty much any song or track from any genre and from any time, and these would all be collected, then sorted by decade, each decade would then get its winner, and finally we would have a round-robin with all the best songs from each decade to determine The Best Song of All Time.

    I'm not yet sure how many nominees this would entail, but it would be a pretty significant tournament in theory. To make it truly all-time, I propose we include songs going back to 1945 and up to 2015. This will give us 70 years of post-WWII music, from classic tunes, to the latest hits.

    What do you say, music fans? Let's rock?

  2. #2
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    Cool idea! I'm all for it.

    Question: any geographic/language restrictions?

    Other than the obvious fact that if I nominate some song that I grew up with, but which is pretty much unknown outside of Russia, it won't get voted for.

    I was just talking with a dear DT member about this a while ago, and we realized that our music knowledge is so very different (despite similar ages) - I grew up hearing a lot of Italian pop music and for a long time was mostly oblivious to English-language songs.

    But this could be a VERY interesting tournament! I'm excited
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    We live in a global world so I don't think this should be restricted in any way (I'm sure someone will nominate Psy - Gangam Style). Plus I'm thinking each entry can be supported by a video (I doubt there's a song that cannot be found on YouTube), so even if a lot of people have never heard a particular song, be it due to age, language, or genre, they'll be able to quickly play the video and listen, and see if it's worthy of their vote. I can see a lot of lesser known but good tracks moving on in this fashion, though in later rounds they'll surely start falling off.

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    Yes, that is exactly what excites me about this idea - I am sure members here have pretty varying tastes, so a lot of good music can be discovered this way.
    Except that some of the music videos on YouTube are not available for viewers in Russia due to copyright restrictions or some other unnamed reasons (oh, the dreaded "This video is not available to viewers in your country") But then again, I'll have no problem looking for an mp3 of a particular song, if it interests me.
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    If that does happen, a different video could be easily substituted. Also, I think it would be best to divide songs into five-year groups. I think it's natural that songs from the first part of a decade always sound different from songs in the other half of the decade. This would give us 14 main groups (and we wouldn't be stuck with the 1940s and the 2010s having five less years to pick from than the rest of the groups). So all we would need is just a whole bunch of nominations (not just the popular stuff, but various deep cuts and good things like that), not quite sure yet how many exactly - but doesn't really matter, the more the merrier. And after several rounds we will end up with the 14 best songs of the last 70 years, each one representing one five-year period from 1945 to 2015. That would be amazing!

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    Mmmm, five year groups make sense - definitely from the fairness to the 40s and 10s standpoint. Also, that way each of us can nominate almost twice as many songs than if we were breaking it down by decade!

    Are you thinking of grouping by genre as well as some other criteria? I'm just pondering whether going really deep into the genre stuff will work - especially as new ones have been appearing over the years that we'll be looking at.
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  7. #7
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    Any genre should be good to go.

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    I can envision how this will play out, but what the hell, I'm in. In the meantime, folks may want to visit some of these threads which have been previously ongoing in order to get a feel for the ranges and tastes of some of the folks here. May also help folks with the nominating process as these threads tend to cover a fairly large range of tastes.


    http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...Roll-Song-Game

    http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...Collaborations!!!!

    http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...ergy-favorites

    http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...Video-s-Thread

    http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...k-In-Your-Head

    Also, some things to keep in mind from experience. First, while I totally agree and support requiring video's of the nominated songs and such, you must bear in mind that this will slow down load times considerably. I'm not sure what if anything can be done in anticipation of this fact (maybe shorten groups as much as possible?), but I thought it worth mentioning for your consideration. Second, while I fully understand your reference to "Global" tastes and I am not trying to exclude anyone's preferences, but you may want to restrict the song origin/release state to keep a more level playing field that everyone is more or less familiar with. Otherwise the voting may be severely unbalanced. Maybe a restriction for the U,S, and/or U.K. charts would be appropriate. Going completely "Global" might not only skew the voting, but also make administering the process unwieldy. Again, just a thought to consider. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, or not to do. Just offering some points to consider is all.

    I look forward to participating in this if and when it gets off the ground!!!

  9. #9
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    Sounds like an awesome idea, pablo!

    I like the 5 year global music span plan...
    if nothing else, the global aspect will introduce me to new music. That could be cool.

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    Bill, as for your concern about videos overload, the videos would be hidden under spoilers (I did that during the Comedy tournament and it worked fine, the video would only load once you clicked on the spoiler). As far as global and charts restrictions, as a big fan of electronic music that typically does not chart anywhere but maybe very specific of charts, I would be nominating a few of my favorites. If they bomb, at least some folks will get to hear them.

    And thanks for those links! I know members here are all of diverse ages, backgrounds, locations, and music tastes, so my hope that when the nominations begin, everyone considers their picks carefully and try covering the field as wide as possible. I'm thinking we'd need about 1,000 nominations overall or so, so we all should think about these as the best pieces of music (be it the poppiest of pop, the hardest of metal, the smoothest of jazz, or the obscurest of indie artistry) of the last 70 years.

    Wikipedia has Billboard Top 100 singles listed going back to 1940, and Spotify has a lot of these lists curated into playlists, for anyone doing research on what to nominate. I'm still not sure of the best way to do the actual nominating process. Do we do them by groups and do we second? I'm afraid due to the number of nominations needed seconding would prolong the process too much.

  12. #12
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    So I was doing a little math and I think I've come up with a good tournament structure that makes sense. This would always be a pretty epic tournament, given the time-frame and the goal, but I believe it would be so much fun and worth the effort. Plus we all should get to hear some awesome tunes.

    So what I proposed above would be to have 14 groups of five-year periods from 1945 to 2014, covering the last 70 years of music (up to but not including 2015, as that would make it 71 years, my initial math was off):

    Era 1: 1945-1949
    Era 2: 1950-1954
    Era 3: 1955-1959
    Era 4: 1960-1964
    Era 5: 1965-1969
    Era 6: 1970-1974
    Era 7: 1975-1979
    Era 8: 1980-1984
    Era 9: 1985-1989
    Era 10: 1990-1994
    Era 11: 1995-1999
    Era 12: 2000-2004
    Era 13: 2005-2009
    Era 14: 2010-2014

    Each group would need 112 nominations, with the first group perhaps needing half that (56). Altogether, this will give us 1,512 nominations (or about 20 nominations per year, which seems very reasonable). Each "era" of 112 nominees will go through the following rounds:

    Round 1: 16 groups of 7 with the top 5 moving on (80)
    Round 2: 16 groups of 5 with the top 3 moving on (48)
    Round 3: 24 groups of 2 with the top 1 moving on (24)

    All nominees would also be ranked by their overall percentage and after the third round the remaining 24 will be seeded 1 though 24 and go through five rounds of playoff as in this sample bracket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templa...mBracket-Byes2

    The first group from the '40s would go though the same process, but with half the size, as I doubt we would be able to come up with that many titles from that era.

    When we get a winner in each of the 14 eras, we could do a round-robin, or go with just another 14-title playoff, like here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templa...gTenBasketball

    So yes, it would be a large and lengthy undertaking, but this would indeed be the ultimate music countdown. And we're in no rush, right? A separate forum for this event may be necessary and polls would most likely need to be going up quicker and in larger volume than in our past tournaments. It is my hope that many people would participate, making this truly representative and fair and fun.

  13. #13
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    For more in-depth research, check out this great resource: http://tsort.info/

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    So Pablo, what you're saying is most of the greatest musicians who ever lived won't be in it, and there won't really be any Cole Porter? What kind of tournament is this?

    Tchaikovsky is not impressed. Look how unimpressed he is




    I'm going to need some of Grieg's Peer Gynt suites to help me forget this won't be a part of the great music tournament
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    Well, this would restricted to the last 70 years. As much as I like classical music, I don't see how we can have Tchaikovsky square off against Michael Jackson.

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    Tchaikovsky would destroy Michael Jackson lol

    ...In a perfect world lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    For more in-depth research, check out this great resource: http://tsort.info/
    Another cool site: http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/

  18. #18
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    How would you deal with covers of songs? Can the same song be nominated more than once if it were performed by multiple artists? That also might affect the year depending on when the original was released and when the cover was released.
    Hearts are tough, she said, most times hearts don't break, and I'm sure that's right . . . but what about then? What about who we were then? What about hearts in Atlantis?

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    There better be at least one Dallas Green song in here somewhere since he's the greatest, though not most successful, musician of the 21st century so far.

    Now that is talent. TALENT.
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    I don't think there would be issues with covers, we'd be nominating specific songs by specific artists from a specific year. And I can think of a few covers better than the originals.

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    Mattrick, that albums sounds great, if we go ahead with the tournament, I hope you nominate one or two of his songs. As stated above, this will be a great way for everyone to discover new music, too, along with the classics and well-known hits.

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    Dallas Green is a master. I could listen to his stuff over and over and never get sick of it. Hard to believe he was originally the creative force behind a metal/screamo band.



    I'll definitely nominate him, though not sure if he'll advance.
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    I tried to get this going several years ago, and was shot down by a couple of admins. I couldnt start a tournament without approval and yadda yadda etc.
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  24. #24
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    Let's hope this time the powers that be are more open to the tournament idea.

  25. #25
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    Well, I really hope we can get this off the ground and we'll need lots of people to participate for it to be any fun.

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