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View Poll Results: Please PICK TWO films to advance to the next round!

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  • Alien

    17 60.71%
  • Donnie Darko

    5 17.86%
  • Dredd

    3 10.71%
  • Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956)

    6 21.43%
  • Starwars Episode VI : Return of the Jedi

    15 53.57%
  • Starship Troopers

    7 25.00%
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Thread: Best Sci-Fi Tournament - Round 3, Group E

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    Well those films do not stand the test of time and with a contemporary viewing, they look very dated and clichéd.
    These films only look cliche because they came first i.e. everything else borrowed from them. The Day The Earth Stood Still is fantastic and the remake was a blight to mankind. As as for being dated, all films from the 50's etc. look dated. Are you saying fantastic film like Rebecca, All About Eve or The Apartment (Best Pictures winners from 1940, 1950, 1960) are dated, which make them inferior films?
    Those films were great in their own time but their impact diminished as cinema evolved. It's not just the photography or set design that makes these films dated, it's also the style of acting. Can you honestly say that the acting in Rebecca is as good as the acting in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest (1975)? Personally, I think the acting in Rebecca comes across as wooden and stilted when compared to such a film. Or how about comparing the sweeping visual grandeur of Out of Africa (1985) against the simplistic tableau of All About Eve - which of the two has more impact? Or the raw emotion and narrative drive of Braveheart (1995) compared to the lack of such substance in The Apartment - which of those two has the bigger impact?

    Best Picture films of the 40's, 50's and 60's just cannot compare to Best Picture films of the 70's, 80's and 90's.
    Saying Laurence Olivier is wooden and stilted is an insult to film. Rebeccas is one of the most brooding films I've ever seen, and covering some very twisted subject matter for it's time. All About Eve featured some of the best talent of it's time going at each othe. Bette Davis one of the best her generation. Paths of Glory has some the most poignant scenes in all of film, more poignant than Braveheart. Next you'll say Some Like It Hot, one of the best comedies ever, isn't funny. To write off older films because of the stage film was in when they were made is like saying Beethoven is boring because there were no wicked guitar solos or lacked a great beat, or Pride and Prejudice wouldnt feel as dated if the Bennet Sisters could text each other or cave paintings would be cooler if they were computer animated.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    That's a very narrow viewpoint on cinema as a whole. Some of the very best films of all time come from that period and that's a universal fact: Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, 12 Angry Men, Casablanca, Double Idemnity, Rashomon, and I can go on and on.
    There are no universal facts concerning what is and what is not a great film - there is only subjective opinion.

    Therefore in my subjective opinion, I thought Casablanca was awful. The acting was appalling and it had some of the worst dialogue ever put to screen. The whole film in my view, just came across as overwhelmingly corny and crass.

    As for Citizen Kane, it's probably the most overrated film in the history of cinema. It's a classic example of a film labelled as great purely by reputation alone and is one of those movies people say they enjoy and think is great, purely because of that reputation.

    In reality, when you boil down to it - the film is quite pretentious and very poorly structured. It has virtually no characterisation or cohesive structure and moves at such a ridiculously slow pace, it induces extreme boredom. This meant that I couldn't care less about the characters or what happened to them. Indeed, I was so bored with it, I just really couldn't give a rat's ass about 'rosebud' or Charles Foster Kane.

    Granted, there were some technical achievements pioneered within the film, but if the story is boring, everything else becomes irrelevant.

    Basically, films such as Citizen Kane embody the exact same style vs substance debate that still rages to this very day, encapsulating it just as perfectly as every flashy film that chooses to let the cool new toys and tricks far outweigh any of the other considerations that make up a good movie - aka Avatar or Prometheus to name just two.

  3. #53
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    Originally Posted by Mattrick
    Saying Laurence Olivier is wooden and stilted is an insult to film.
    Not when his performance is being compared to that of Jack Nicholson's in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest it's not.

    Lawrence Olivier was a great actor, but not all of his performances were golden. He became much better later in life and was a far more accomplished stage actor than on screen. If you truly believe that the acting in Rebecca is better than the acting in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - then you need your head read.

    Originally Posted by Mattrick
    To write off older films because of the stage film was in when they were made is like saying Beethoven is boring because there were no wicked guitar solos or lacked a great beat, or Pride and Prejudice wouldnt feel as dated if the Bennet Sisters could text each other or cave paintings would be cooler if they were computer animated.
    That is a very poor analogy. I never said that I was writing off old films, I am merely pointing out the obvious truth that older films may have been great in their own day, but become outdated as time goes by. Ben-Hur won 11 Oscars (including Best Picture) after it was released in 1959, but how many would it win today?

  4. #54
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    I don't think you can really compare it to today. Films are so different now than they were 70 years ago. Just because time has moved on, that doesn't make the films any less powerful. I can understand you saying that Citizen Kane was boring, it's pace is a lot slower, and the story might not appeal to everyone, but it definitely does have a lot of characterization and structure to it. And while the acting back then was different, I don't feel like it's worse or more wooden. Some of our greatest actors came from that period.

    I wonder if we should start a new thread, so we can continue this discussion after this poll ends.
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  5. #55
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    I definitely want to continue this conversation. I will start a thread if no one else does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

  6. #56
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    Can't you just move some of the posts to the Classic Movies thread?

  7. #57
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    Since I recently watched From Here to Eternity, I think I may have something to add to the conversation.

    First I will say that I really enjoyed From Here to Eternity. It's easy to see why it's considered a classic. That being said, the film is pretty basic in its storytelling. Essentially, the story consists of Burt Lancaster who falls in love with his superior officer's wife. Then there is Montgomery Clift who falls in love with a local "companion". Let's be honest, she's basically a prostitute, but they would never say that back then. The whole film flips back and forth between these two characters. There are some minor side storylines for each character as well. Clift is being recruited to box for his unit, but is dead set against it. Lancaster is struggling with the idea of moving up in rank. Pretty basic in the grand scheme of things.

    In the third act of the film, finally something big happens.
    Spoiler:
    Clift's character murders Ernest Borgnine's character because Borgnine abused Sinatra's character while he was in jail causing him to escape and then pass away.
    If this film was made today, that would have happened in the first act and the rest of the film would have dealt with Clift's character dealing with the fall out.

    For me, the main theme of From Here to Eternity is the small stuff and the fact it's just people living their lives. We are basically seeing people go about their lives before the world changed forever. We see men and women falling in love, friends bonding over drinks and playing music. The events of Pearl Harbor seemed like an impossibility.

    The charms of a film like From Here to Eternity comes from the big Hollywood cast and the "Old Hollywood" feel. That might not be enough for a lot of people, especially if you're used to more contemporary films. I for one can't put Eternity anywhere near some of the more "new age" films that have come out in the last 30 or 40 years.

    It's been said before, but movies just aren't made like that anymore. The pacing is different, the structure is different, the writing is different and the acting is different. It has nothing to do with technological advancements or anything like that. It's quite simply the philosophy of filmmaking that has changed.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fernandito View Post
    I definitely want to continue this conversation. I will start a thread if no one else does.
    How about doing a few 1 vs 1 death match style polls to see if old classic films can hold their own against modern classics?

    To make things fair, I'm thinking that the first death match could be Casablanca vs Schindler's List.

    Both films were set during World War II; both were filmed in black & white; both won the Academy Award for Best Film & Best Director and both are considered to be one of the greatest films ever made. Bring it on!

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  9. #59
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    Hands down, Casablanca. One of the best films ever vs. one of the best of the 1990s.

  10. #60
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    If only we could take some new films and the internet back in time to poll fresh subjects.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    If you truly believe that the acting in Rebecca is better than the acting in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - then you need your head read.
    how do you define "better" or "worse" in acting? Seems like you mean "more realistic". But it's only one of the many colors on the palette. The acting in Rebecca is better, in fact, it is ideal, for a film like Rebecca. The acting in Black Adder is ideal for Black Adder, without being realistic for a moment.

    I agree that Mattrick's analogy is not perfect, so I'll offer another: it's like accusing Marc Chagall of not using the same chiaroscuro as Leonardo da Vinci.

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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle View Post
    Can't you just move some of the posts to the Classic Movies thread?
    What I'll probably do is move some of the posts onto a new thread and then eventually merge that thread with the Classics one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    If you truly believe that the acting in Rebecca is better than the acting in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - then you need your head read.
    how do you define "better" or "worse" in acting? Seems like you mean "more realistic". But it's only one of the many colors on the palette. The acting in Rebecca is better, in fact, it is ideal, for a film like Rebecca. The acting in Black Adder is ideal for Black Adder, without being realistic for a moment.

    I agree that Mattrick's analogy is not perfect, so I'll offer another: it's like accusing Marc Chagall of not using the same chiaroscuro as Leonardo da Vinci.
    Props for the Black Adder mention, Jean. Which reminds me: a rewatch of Goes Forth is in order soon, I think.


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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pablo View Post
    That's a very narrow viewpoint on cinema as a whole. Some of the very best films of all time come from that period and that's a universal fact: Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, 12 Angry Men, Casablanca, Double Idemnity, Rashomon, and I can go on and on.
    There are no universal facts concerning what is and what is not a great film - there is only subjective opinion.

    Therefore in my subjective opinion, I thought Casablanca was awful. The acting was appalling and it had some of the worst dialogue ever put to screen. The whole film in my view, just came across as overwhelmingly corny and crass.

    As for Citizen Kane, it's probably the most overrated film in the history of cinema. It's a classic example of a film labelled as great purely by reputation alone and is one of those movies people say they enjoy and think is great, purely because of that reputation.

    In reality, when you boil down to it - the film is quite pretentious and very poorly structured. It has virtually no characterisation or cohesive structure and moves at such a ridiculously slow pace, it induces extreme boredom. This meant that I couldn't care less about the characters or what happened to them. Indeed, I was so bored with it, I just really couldn't give a rat's ass about 'rosebud' or Charles Foster Kane.

    Granted, there were some technical achievements pioneered within the film, but if the story is boring, everything else becomes irrelevant.

    Basically, films such as Citizen Kane embody the exact same style vs substance debate that still rages to this very day, encapsulating it just as perfectly as every flashy film that chooses to let the cool new toys and tricks far outweigh any of the other considerations that make up a good movie - aka Avatar or Prometheus to name just two.
    You must have thought Prometheus kicked the shit out of Alien. I just watched Alien, it's so dated looking! Am I supposed to believe they can travel through space when their computers only have green text and their main control port looks like a padded cell decorated with light bright? And The Alien was obviously a guy in a suit. I actually am going to watch Citizen Kane very soon just because of what you said about it. Chances are I will completely disagree with you, like I do with Casablanca and every other movie pre-1970.

    I don't know what you mean by style vs substance in old movies; a lot of old movies excell in both, like as I previously mentioned, Rebecca. There is more to style than special effects...a lot more. If style was special effects Zack Snyder would be the most stylistic filmmaker of all time, when that is probably Kubrick (or at very least he's right near the top).
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post

    You must have thought Prometheus kicked the shit out of Alien. I just watched Alien, it's so dated looking! Am I supposed to believe they can travel through space when their computers only have green text and their main control port looks like a padded cell decorated with light bright? And The Alien was obviously a guy in a suit. I actually am going to watch Citizen Kane very soon just because of what you said about it. Chances are I will completely disagree with you, like I do with Casablanca and every other movie pre-1970.

    I don't know what you mean by style vs substance in old movies; a lot of old movies excell in both, like as I previously mentioned, Rebecca. There is more to style than special effects...a lot more. If style was special effects Zack Snyder would be the most stylistic filmmaker of all time, when that is probably Kubrick (or at very least he's right near the top).
    If you thought I liked Prometheus, then you didn't read my post properly. Prometheus was shit, as was Avatar - whilst Alien is superb. If you think I hate all films that are older purely because of the special effects that are available today, then you are gravely mistaken.

    I don't recall special effects being at the forefront of either One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest or Schindler's List, both of which I championed during earlier posts - but of course those films didn't suit your argument, so you carefully fudged around mentioning those two.

    As for Citizen Kane, I bet you're going to force yourself to enjoy it, just so you can come back here to say it's great, even though it bored you shitless! LOL! LOL!

    I will say this though. If you truly loved old classic movies as much as you say you do, you would have watched Citizen Kane already.

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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post

    If you thought I liked Prometheus, then you didn't read my post properly. Prometheus was shit, as was Avatar - whilst Alien is superb. If you think I hate all films that are older purely because of the special effects that are available today, then you are gravely mistaken.
    Yet you phrased it that Prometheus and Avatar were comparable to Citizen Kane, good or bad, they are incomparable.

    I don't recall special effects being at the forefront of either One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest or Schindler's List, both of which I championed during earlier posts - but of course those films didn't suit your argument, so you carefully fudged around mentioning those two.
    My argument was older science fiction that looks dated is inferior to newer science fiction, which itself will look just as dated 30 years from now. As for Cuckoos Nest having better acting than Rebecca, they are very different films. Saying the acting was more realistic because they played insane people who acted really crazy, doesn't make much sense. Are you around crazy people often? What experiences have you had to determine it's realistic acting? Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time. To say he's wooden because 'he wasn't flopping around on screen, screaming his head off in a straight jacket like Nicholson from Cuckoo's Nest' is just a horrible comparison, unless you think good acting has to be like Nicholson in Cuckoo's Nest.

    As for Citizen Kane, I bet you're going to force yourself to enjoy it, just so you can come back here to say it's great, even though it bored you shitless! LOL! LOL!

    I will say this though. If you truly loved old classic movies as much as you say you do, you would have watched Citizen Kane already.
    No, I genuinely enjoy movies that are very slow, methodical, and focus on characterisation and dialogue. Not everyone gets bored shitless by these things like you get bored shitless. Some of my favourite movies of all time is almost nothing but dialogue and some of my favourite movies barely even have a plot, like Another Year, which you would probably also think has wooden acting and is boring as shit besides being one of the best movies hardly anyone has seen. I am sure I will like Citizen Kane if it is a good movie. There are some very beloved movies I wasn't a big fan of such as when I recently watch Pan's Labryth and thought it was just okay, and I had a long discussion over how overrated Goodfellas is on this site before. I don't think movie are good and force myself to like them to fit in with other people's tastes: I like what I like. And as for not watching Citizen Kane yet, I've had it for three years. Like I just told Fernando in a different thread, I like to let things marinate.
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    Originally Posted by Mattrick
    My argument was older science fiction that looks dated is inferior to newer science fiction, which itself will look just as dated 30 years from now. As for Cuckoos Nest having better acting than Rebecca, they are very different films. Saying the acting was more realistic because they played insane people who acted really crazy, doesn't make much sense. Are you around crazy people often? What experiences have you had to determine it's realistic acting? Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time. To say he's wooden because 'he wasn't flopping around on screen, screaming his head off in a straight jacket like Nicholson from Cuckoo's Nest' is just a horrible comparison, unless you think good acting has to be like Nicholson in Cuckoo's Nest.
    Have you even watched One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest? Or is that just another movie you have left to "marinate"? First off, Jack Nicholson doesn't scream his head off in a straight jacket anywhere in the movie, nor does he just "flop around". The fact that you would post such a comment just shows that you are completely ignorant about the film. I suggest you actually watch the movie before spouting such opinionated crap.

    Secondly, your comment that "Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time" is based on what exactly? I bet you haven't even seen two of his movies, if any at all! You spout such opinionated nonsense and act as if your some infallible movie guru about classic films, yet you haven't even watched any of the truly classic films to make such an argument. You clearly haven't watched One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest and you already admit to having not watched Citizen Kane, Blade Runner, 2001 A Space Odyssey or Apocalypse Now.

    Judging by your posts, I personally think you have just read a few Roger Ebert reviews and are trying to pass his opinions off as your own in order to sound like an intellectual, without actually seeing any of these films.

    Originally Posted by Mattrick
    Some of my favourite movies of all time is almost nothing but dialogue and some of my favourite movies barely even have a plot, like Another Year, which you would probably also think has wooden acting and is boring as shit besides being one of the best movies hardly anyone has seen.
    Now you're just being pretentious.

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    And those that carry us forward, are dreams.” – H.G. Wells

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    Originally Posted by Mattrick
    My argument was older science fiction that looks dated is inferior to newer science fiction, which itself will look just as dated 30 years from now. As for Cuckoos Nest having better acting than Rebecca, they are very different films. Saying the acting was more realistic because they played insane people who acted really crazy, doesn't make much sense. Are you around crazy people often? What experiences have you had to determine it's realistic acting? Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time. To say he's wooden because 'he wasn't flopping around on screen, screaming his head off in a straight jacket like Nicholson from Cuckoo's Nest' is just a horrible comparison, unless you think good acting has to be like Nicholson in Cuckoo's Nest.
    Have you even watched One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest? Or is that just another movie you have left to "marinate"? First off, Jack Nicholson doesn't scream his head off in a straight jacket anywhere in the movie, nor does he just "flop around". The fact that you would post such a comment just shows that you are completely ignorant about the film. I suggest you actually watch the movie before spouting such opinionated crap.

    Secondly, your comment that "Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time" is based on what exactly? I bet you haven't even seen two of his movies, if any at all! You spout such opinionated nonsense and act as if your some infallible movie guru about classic films, yet you haven't even watched any of the truly classic films to make such an argument. You clearly haven't watched One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest and you already admit to having not watched Citizen Kane, Blade Runner, 2001 A Space Odyssey or Apocalypse Now.

    Judging by your posts, I personally think you have just read a few Roger Ebert reviews and are trying to pass his opinions off as your own in order to sound like an intellectual, without actually seeing any of these films.


  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post
    Have you even watched One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest? Or is that just another movie you have left to "marinate"? First off, Jack Nicholson doesn't scream his head off in a straight jacket anywhere in the movie, nor does he just "flop around". The fact that you would post such a comment just shows that you are completely ignorant about the film. I suggest you actually watch the movie before spouting such opinionated crap.
    I saw it for the first time when I was ten. Seen it a few times since then. I think in terms of Milos Forman's films I like Amadeus more. So no, I am not completely ignorant about the film (seen it a few times in my life), the director (Milos Forman is one of my favourite filmmakers) or Jack Nicholson (he's my favourite of all time).

    Secondly, your comment that "Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time" is based on what exactly?
    I bet you haven't even seen two of his movies, if any at all!
    Let me get this straight. I say: "Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time", and then you say, "is based on what exactly?"; to answer that here is my quote again, with the part of my quote that answers the question you just asked: "Laurence Olivier is considered by many people to be one of, if the not the greatest, actor of all time" My uncle raves about Olivier. One of my best friends Will RAVES about Olivier. The Academy raved about Olivier (13 nominations...he must suck!). A LOT of people rave about him. And then you insinuate I probably haven't seen any of his films after going on about how great Rebecca is....great job! I am pretty sure Rebecca is the only film I've seen him in but he was goddamn fantastic and I thought 'damn, no wonder why people talk about how great of an actor this guy is' while watching Rebecca.


    Quote Originally Posted by tdogz AK47
    You spout such opinionated nonsense and act as if your some infallible movie guru about classic films, yet you haven't even watched any of the truly classic films to make such an argument. You clearly haven't watched One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest and you already admit to having not watched Citizen Kane, Blade Runner, 2001 A Space Odyssey or Apocalypse Now.
    Sure I haven't watched those but I've watch a lot of other classics...so what's the difference? I chose to watch more obscure classics so that makes me some kind pariah? I'm sorry I chose to watch Kubricks Paths of Glory, Dr. Strangelove and The Killing before I watched 2001. I've saving 2001 to be the last Kubrick I see...I suppose that strips away all my credibility. As for Apocalypse now, I haven't seen Apocalypse now but I've watched Coppola's The Conversation five times....have you seen it once? And as for Blade Runner, I've seen it but it was in high school in a terrible environment like 12 years ago and I was late to class and missed the first half hour and remember very little of the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdogz AK47
    Judging by your posts, I personally think you have just read a few Roger Ebert reviews and are trying to pass his opinions off as your own in order to sound like an intellectual, without actually seeing any of these films.



    Originally Posted by Mattrick
    Some of my favourite movies of all time is almost nothing but dialogue and some of my favourite movies barely even have a plot, like Another Year, which you would probably also think has wooden acting and is boring as shit besides being one of the best movies hardly anyone has seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tdogz AK47
    Now you're just being pretentious.
    No, I'm being truthful. Most of my favourite movies are character pieces and aren't very plot heavy. Another Year is a film about a married couple and a year in their life. There is no real beginning or end to the movie. The story is told entirely through dialogue and acting since there is no real linear plot for the characters to follow. The film consists of people sitting around talking with each other. It is my favourite film of the decade so far.

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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dogz_AK47 View Post

    Judging by your posts, I personally think you have just read a few Roger Ebert reviews and are trying to pass his opinions off as your own in order to sound like an intellectual, without actually seeing any of these films.
    Nah, I've known Matt for a long time, and we've had many interesting conversations about films throughout the years, he's no phony. We just have a way of stating our opinions in a very matter-of-fact because we're very, uh... vehement in our views.

    Heated debate is par for the course in tournaments like these and I personally enjoy seeing everyone express themselves, no matter how effusively. I think we've been doing a good job about doing that and not resorting to personal attacks. Let's keep it that way. Thanks guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

  21. #71
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    Ok, now let's try and get things back on topic:

    If a bear and a shark got into a fight, who would win?


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  22. #72
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    That depends, is the fight on land or sea?
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  23. #73
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    Knowing that each can be successful in its own completely different way: that's exactly the right attitude to have in this tournament, Ricky!

    (And for the record, that was exactly the same question my mum asked, too.)

    EDIT: and in answer to your question, neither: it's in space, with fitted animal astronaut suits that still somehow allow each animal to use its tooth and claws.


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  24. #74
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    Space, you say! Well, that changes things.

    Okay, well, due to the physical bodies of both sharks and bears, I would say that the shark would win since its fins would allow it to better acclimate to and survive in a zero gravity environment (movie idea: Space Sharks). A bear's strength lies in its formidable body, strength, and claws BUT due to the lack of gravity, its force would be lessened. Even if both animals were just floating through space, relying on pure chance to attack each other, the shark would have the advantage since it could just open its mouth and glide towards the face of the bear.

    Spoiler:
    This needs its own thread.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    Space, you say! Well, that changes things.

    Okay, well, due to the physical bodies of both sharks and bears, I would say that the shark would win since its fins would allow it to better acclimate to and survive in a zero gravity environment (movie idea: Space Sharks). A bear's strength lies in its formidable body, strength, and claws BUT due to the lack of gravity, its force would be lessened. Even if both animals were just floating through space, relying on pure chance to attack each other, the shark would have the advantage since it could just open its mouth and glide towards the face of the bear.

    Spoiler:
    This needs its own thread.
    Ah, a well thought through answer.

    Spoiler:
    And you're right, this totally needs its own thread, but I can imagine discussion of shit like this getting as ridiculously heated as it has in the sci-fi tournament...

    ...yeah, this definitely needs its own thread now.


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