Best Sci-Fi Tournament - Round 1, Group N

[Still Servant]

But I can't believe there is uncertainty about Dredd. I think more people need to watch it.

You can't blame people for the uncertainty, especially not when it's so ominously and closely associated with the train wreck that is Stallone's Dredd.

I think I can confidently say that those of us who have watched it endorse it effusively. It's a very brutal and stylistic sci fi film that begs to be experienced at least once.

I think we've had this discussion before, and it's a very interesting one, and that is the reasons why Dredd did poorly at the box office.

I truly believe that one of the biggest reasons why Dredd didn't do as well as it should have was the choice to name the movie Dredd 3D. It immediately cheapens the film and turns people off.

[divemaster]

But I can't believe there is uncertainty about Dredd. I think more people need to watch it.

You can't blame people for the uncertainty, especially not when it's so ominously and closely associated with the train wreck that is Stallone's Dredd.

I think I can confidently say that those of us who have watched it endorse it effusively. It's a very brutal and stylistic sci fi film that begs to be experienced at least once.

I think we've had this discussion before, and it's a very interesting one, and that is the reasons why Dredd did poorly at the box office.

I truly believe that one of the biggest reasons why Dredd didn't do as well as it should have was the choice to name the movie Dredd 3D. It immediately cheapens the film and turns people off.

I was one of those who associated Dredd with Stallone. I never saw the first one, but figured this was just a remake. Like they did recently with Robocop. Why would I watch a rehashed Robocop, when I loved the original so much? And why would I watch a rehashed Judge Dredd if I never felt compelled to watch the first one?

And, like you surmised, the 3D marketing was the final touch. If a movie has to resort to the gimmick rather than the story or characters, then I assume the story and characters suck.

Having said that, this thread has allowed me to change my preconceived notion. Added to Netflix queue!

[fernandito]

Good parallel with the Robocop original / remake.

The fundamental difference between Dredd and the Stallone turkey is that the former was helmed by a creative team with a very obvious love for the source material. It's apparent in every shot and frame that they wanted to fully embrace the unflinchingly violent and somber tone of the comics.

I guarantee you'll love it. Push it up on your queue.


ALL OF YOU.

[DoctorDodge]

The added "3D" to the promotional title is by far one of the most pissed off things I am about Lionsgate's marketing. I say "promotional title" because everyone involved in the making of the film and anyone who actually watched it simply referred to it as Dredd - even the opening titles say just that - but you can tell that Lionsgate, whose only task involved in the film was simple distribution, got clever and decided to add the 3D in to draw in sales. This is something I suspect even more when you check out other 3D films of theirs - Texas Chainsaw 3D, Saw 3D, Silent Hill Revelation 3D - and as Mike said, it really just cheapens it. It's a shame, because yes, there is a kind of prominent feature of the 3D in this film, but it's done in such a way that it genuinely works. In fact, the beauty of Dredd is that it's probably one of those films that shouldn't work and yet does because all the elements are done so incredibly well.

I also agree with Fernando that the fact that the first attempt wasn't that great also left a bad impression on audiences and wouldn't have left them feeling compelled to check out the latest version. Hell, for the longest time, it made me want to avoid the original comic - in a country where most people know the comic actually exists - until I saw a crossover on the shelves with Batman. It took fucking Batman for me to become remotely interested in the character, and just a few years later, I became one of those guys who wouldn't shut up about the film before it was even released!

divemaster, if you enjoyed RoboCop, I suspect you'd love Dredd, considering the original comics were a huge source of inspiration for the original RoboCop movie, particularly the satire and the ultra-violence. While Dredd doesn't have quite as many moments of ultra-black humour as RoboCop or the comics, it still has its moments (there's one scene with a mother pushing a pram that never fails to make me laugh). I'm not sure you'd love it quite as much as the original RoboCop (which is to me so perfect that I'm afraid to check out any sequels, remakes etc), but I hope you enjoy it, nonetheless.

Fernando: thank you so much for spreading the love for this movie. Same goes for turtle Mike and SS Mike. Seeing the love this film gets by others is always awesome to see.

By the way guys, today I bought Cloud Atlas and The Fly today, as well as other movies in the tournament that I'll check out soon. I just want to play things as fair as possible before voting, and I can rent THX-1138, so if I love any of those, then they'll definitely get my vote.

Oh, and if anyone needs any more convincing on Dredd, here's a couple of links to opinions raised by me and others on the board:

Fernando's review: http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...l=1#post728312

My review: http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...l=1#post725084

And for this last link, this might be more for those who've seen it, but wondering if it really deserves their votes, here's a post I've written on tumblr recently called 10 things I loved about Dredd: http://doctordodge.tumblr.com/post/9...ve-about-dredd

[Still Servant]

Everybody should read James' article. It's really informative and truly shows his passion for Dredd, as well as film in general.

[Mattrick]

But I can't believe there is uncertainty about Dredd. I think more people need to watch it.

You can't blame people for the uncertainty, especially not when it's so ominously and closely associated with the train wreck that is Stallone's Dredd.

I think I can confidently say that those of us who have watched it endorse it effusively. It's a very brutal and stylistic sci fi film that begs to be experienced at least once.

I think we've had this discussion before, and it's a very interesting one, and that is the reasons why Dredd did poorly at the box office.

I truly believe that one of the biggest reasons why Dredd didn't do as well as it should have was the choice to name the movie Dredd 3D. It immediately cheapens the film and turns people off.

I was one of those who associated Dredd with Stallone. I never saw the first one, but figured this was just a remake. Like they did recently with Robocop. Why would I watch a rehashed Robocop, when I loved the original so much? And why would I watch a rehashed Judge Dredd if I never felt compelled to watch the first one?

And, like you surmised, the 3D marketing was the final touch. If a movie has to resort to the gimmick rather than the story or characters, then I assume the story and characters suck.

Having said that, this thread has allowed me to change my preconceived notion. Added to Netflix queue!

Dredd was written by Alex Garland which already puts it ahead of the original Judge Dredd and Robocop and it's remake. Garland is one of the best working screenwriters (28 Days Later, Sunshine, Never Let Me Go) and his novels are also very good (The Beach, The Coma, The Tesseract). I'm anticipating his directorial debut with Ex Machina and his original adaptation to Halo (which should be solid since he admittedly didn't write for four years because he got addicted to video games, especially Halo)....you've added it to your queue and all but his involvement is all I needed to want to see which I had zero interest in before.

[mae]

Need more THX love!

[DoctorDodge]

Well, I caught up on some essential viewing from this thread, so I've finally voted.

Films that I watched this weekend and voted for are: Cloud Atlas and The Fly. The former was simply much better than I expected, a very enjoyable and well made epic film that avoids coming across as pretentious wankery and instead combines 6 very different stories into one cohesive narrative. It started out slow and last night I had only planned to watch the first half at most, but eventually things had built up so much that I was hooked. The book is now very much on my 'to read' list.

The Fly was a great mix of strong, disgusting body horror with some really great heavy themes. That makes it a great horror film, true, but does it necessarily make it a great scifi film? Well the science fiction element was used well, and most of the scifi I enjoy is usually mixed in with other clear genres. It's why a film like THX-1138, a dystopian film that's very much pure science fiction, wasn't something I could vote for. There wasn't quite enough to draw me in. I appreciated what Lucas was trying to do, but, as much as I love dystopian science fiction like Blade Runner, I thought Star Wars was a much more successful effort. I think I prefer him more as an adventure director/storyteller than a sci-fi director.

I also voted for Gravity. Yes, I know, its incredibly real depiction of space as it is right now means that actually, there's no real elements of typical science fiction there - no made up invention or device or alternative future/history/etc to make this film something other than a disaster film in space. An excellent disaster film in space, but perhaps not one we would ordinarily call 'science fiction'. So why did I vote for it? Well, in other circles, it has been given that label, but more than that, I believe that, with this film's success, it's going to have a real impact on the genre in time. It's one of the most realistic depictions of life/work in space that we've seen yet, and audiences loved it, so I think there's going to be a few filmmakers that are going to try on some level to give audiences that level and depth of reality. Perhaps not many, but some films with more typical science fiction elements are going to aim for a more realistic feel to their films, and I think it's going to be mostly due to the success of Gravity that could cause it. Of course, I could be massively wrong, but it is definitely something to consider.

As for my final option of who I voted for in this round...well, I really don't need to say, do I?

[fernandito]

Pleased to see you enjoyed Cloud Atlas, James! Definitely an underrated film.

I haven't seen THX-1138 but I plan to... eventually.

[DoctorDodge]

It was much more enjoyable than I expected it to be, Fernando. The makeup for some actors did prove more than a little distracting at times, but it was such a great mix of genres and storytelling that I got much more caught up in it than I thought i would. path has said that the film's good but the book is better. I can definitely believe that and I'm now more curious about the book than ever, but I think what the film achieved really impressed me. I'd say I wish I had seen it at the cinema, but...3 hours long without a break definitely makes it a more "stay at home" film for me. There's definitely a number of films out there where I wish they had breaks, like in theater plays or even with the Godfather movies. Why don't they do that these days?

THX is worth a look I'd say. Donald Pleasance is great in it, as he is in most films I've seen him in. And you can finally get all those "THX" and "1138" references made in every single Lucas film ever, at least.

[fernandito]

I'll concede the the actors make up was a little distracting at times, but I felt it really underscored one of the film's central ideas, in that seemingly inconsequential actions can ripple throughout the ages. Having the actors show up during all eras was a nice peripheral reminder of that and I appreciated what the Wachowski's were going for.

[DoctorDodge]

I'll concede the the actors make up was a little distracting at times, but I felt it really underscored one of the film's central ideas, in that seemingly inconsequential actions can ripple throughout the ages. Having the actors show up during all eras was a nice peripheral reminder of that and I appreciated what the Wachowski's were going for.

Oh, I can agree with you there. But there were moments when actors made up to look like old men or women that really didn't convince. Except Hugo Weaving. Oddly enough, he was very convincing as a strict English woman. But like I said, other than that and Hanks (thankfully small) part as that mockney-gangsta leftover from a Guy Ritchie film, I thought the concept did work pretty well. Like I said, the film did at least aim to achieve a lot, and while it wasn't exactly completely successful, it was much more successful than I had imagined it to be.

[Iwritecode]

What was the other one?

Pleasantville

[mae]

What was the other one?

Pleasantville

That's a great movie, but not strictly sci-fi, not in the pure sense. That said, I also voted for it, but looks like it has no chance. Really surprised at THX's failure. I was sure it'd be in the top six.

[Ricky]

Voted for Gravity, Pleasantville, and The Fly. I just watched The Fly last night and was really impressed. It was quick-paced but not rushed, Jeff Goldblum's performance was fantastic, and it has some of the most disgusting imagery I've ever seen (I couldn't watch the fingernail scene. ). I just wished that it wouldn't have ended so abruptly and had a minute or two at the end to explain

Spoiler:

what happened with her pregnancy (though Wikipedia says that those scenes were cut).

[mae]

Looks like Cloud Atlas and THX-1138 will be left behind...

[Jean]

bears voted Jacob's Ladder, which they adored

[Heather19]

I guess Jacob's Ladder is the only one to get my vote. I wanted to watch The Fly, The Day the Earth Stood Still, and War of the Worlds, but I won't get to them before the poll closes.

[fernandito]

Watch Dredd!

[DoctorDodge]

What Fernando said. Outside of an Argento movie, most beautiful brightly coloured violence I've seen in a film, certainly in an action/scifi film.

[Heather19]

I'm not sure it's my type of film.

[DoctorDodge]

It's got seriously hardcore ultra-violence and Karl Urban in a helmet! What more could you want in a movie?

Seriously, there's mine and Fernando's reviews you could check out. Plus my tumblr blog on why it's so fucking awesome, of course. But really there's only one way to be sure: watch it. Give it a look on Netflix. (Just for the love of God make sure it's not the Stallone film.)

[fernandito]

Action isn't really Heather's cup of tea though. Shit, it took a lot of convincing and bartering to get her to watch Terminator 2!

[DoctorDodge]

Yeah, I know. I would've thought the idea of beautifully done violence (I mean seriously, just how beautiful is that last death especially?) would've appealed to her compared to most action movies, but I can see how it still might not be her thing. Still, at least Dredd's not doing too badly.

[fernandito]

Hopefully more people have a chance to watch it during this brief hiatus.