I'm sorry, but the princess is in another castle.
Hmm i'm sure that someone has talked about this here before me..... but it's still 23 pages that i should read for my answerso i try again
After reaching the top.... roland gets that it's a new beginning after all. That he must go all this through again but this time with the horn.... so he must do everything again without his fingers? I just went through the end again for this post. The tower gives him back the gun he lost ... and gives him the Horn of the eld. but he ain't traveling back in time - he's going on and on.... so he won't get younger - only older?
Is there a possibility that he dies on the quest/to old age before he really gets his salvation?
I am the one I am the one
The godlike terror train
The superior, artificial brain
Feel free to call me Blaine!
may be
Interesting metaphor used in passing in The Stand:... It was... as if some irrational god had suddenly bundled her viciously through a time-warp and condemned her to live the last six weeks all over again. ...
And on that note, I would also like to say how perfect I think the title of this thread is.
I think I get why you highlighted the parts which you did, but I might be wrong. Could you explain, please? I'm curious how it all fits.Originally Posted by urborn2die
......He saw and understood at once. the knowledge falling upon him in a hammer blow, hot as the sun of the desert that was the apotheosis of all deserts.
How many times had he climbed these stairs only to to find himself peeled back, curved back, turned back?
Not to the beginning (when things might have been changed and time's curse lifted) but to that moment in the Mohaine Desert when he had finally understood that his thoughtless, question less quest would ultimately succeed.
Well... I never really assumed that his physical body continues the loop... Remember the doors on the beach? Roland's body lay in front of the door when his consciousness Entered into Eddie... Not saying it is axactly the same like his body is still in front of door "Roland" but the point is the same... If each loop is really a different world... which is a theory explored on this thread previously... His subconscious could be simply transferred into the new "Roland" or something vaguely similar to that... Could also explain why he doesnt die, but seems to get more tired and weary... his physical body is "new/younger" but his subconscious mind is really super old...Hmm i'm sure that someone has talked about this here before me..... but it's still 23 pages that i should read for my answer
After reaching the top.... roland gets that it's a new beginning after all. That he must go all this through again but this time with the horn.... so he must do everything again without his fingers? I just went through the end again for this post. The tower gives him back the gun he lost ... and gives him the Horn of the eld. but he ain't traveling back in time - he's going on and on.... so he won't get younger - only older?
Is there a possibility that he dies on the quest/to old age before he really gets his salvation?
Just an idear!
[/quote]...[/QUOTE]I think I get why you highlighted the parts which you did, but I might be wrong. Could you explain, please? I'm curious how it all fits.[/QUOTE]
The highlights are the parts I felt explained why it always restarts at same point. For whatever reason Roland has to keep repeating this part of the quest until he does something right or he has done enough to warrent a reprieve from being in this loop.
I believe he returns in time to the desert same age same body as then. he loops back starts again as he was then
He has all his fingers and the guns (its doesnt say he DOESNT have them)
at the end it says alot about him not changing, being too serious ,etc and I think that while he starts at the same point each time and meets the same people (same suzie, edie jake and Oy while the time period may be the same the actions are his own to do as he will. its upt o him to become more human, caring and thoughtfull of others.
sorry if this has already been suggested, but looking at plot descriptions for the comics, they seem a bit different.
could this indicate that they're not exactly part of the story as we know it, but depict events as they happened in other loops, loops in which Roland may or may not have picked up the Horn?
Ending Unfufilling After Such a Journey
Wow, just finished The Dark Tower and I've got to say I'm a little unhappy with the ending.
Left me feeling kind of pissed off to seeSpoiler:after all the trials and tribulations Roland went through. Kind of unvalidated all the deaths of friends and loved ones throughout the story.
Don't get me wrong this is now my favorite book of all time, surpassing the mighty Lord of the Rings but I would have like to have seen a more fufilling ending for Roland.
Discussion???
This will probably be moved to a spoiler forum, but just in case:
Spoiler:
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
Spoiler:
Reread it carefully and u will notice thatSpoiler:which introduces the possibility that it could be different this time, It didnt click with me immedietly either because its presented in a rather un forceful manner
if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do
I agree with DoctorDodge's analysis. I really liked the ending. I don't really see how it could have ended any differently and been in any way satisfying. He gets to the top of the tower and sees--what? A magic 8-ball? A genie with 3 wishes? A giant spider?
I didn't know how it was going to end until I got there. It did come as a surprise--and a pleasant one. I remember saying to myself "Way to go, Stevie! You really pulled it off!" (Honestly, I didn't think he had it in him to end the series in a way where I could say that.) That's reason #17 that King is such a great author.
Merging with the official loop thread
Just finished this last night. What an awesome series. I'm so glad I finally decided to read it!!
I have a couple of questions though . . . I haven't read the whole thread, so I cry pardon if this has been spoken about before, but these were two of the first things that popped into my mind after I finished . . . Here we go.
1. When Roland ends up back in the desert and has now restarted his quest . . . again, is his hand healed? Does he really go back to the beginning as a whole man? Or does he keep the injuries he's sustained thus far?
2. Is Roland the only one who resets and he meets different people along his path to the Tower? Or does everyone reset? The man in black, The Crimson King, Eddie, Jake, Susannah . . . everyone?
3. Kind of continuing off of the last question, if everyone does reset and the quest begins anew, does that mean the worlds, Mid-World in particular, reset as well? For example, are the Beams under attack and dying again? Will Roland and the tet have to save them again?
Thanks. These were the main questions that came to mind after I finished it.
Are sins ever forgiven?
For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.
http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*
1) Yes. He hasn't yet encountered the lobstrosities, so his hand is whole. If he chooses differently along the way, he might never encounter the lobstrosities.
2) I look at it this way -- this is a different level of the Tower, in the sense defined in Insomnia. A parallel reality where Roland made at least one different choice in his life -- the decision to stop and pick up the Horn of Eld. That means he's a slightly better person in a kharmic sense. Less focused on his goal to the exclusion of everything else around him, which means he's a tad less likely to sacrifice people without thought. That means there's a chance he won't let Jake fall. There's a chance that ka might provide him with a different ka-tet to complete his goal, since ka supplies what he needs, apparently.
However, since King believes that Roland's improvement is incremental and not monumental with each iteration, chances are that many things will be the same at this level of the Tower. When he finally "gets it right" (however you choose to define that), his final attempt might be substantially different, or it may only be different in one respect. (In my opinion, he needs to learn not to enter the Tower after he has saved it.)
3) Yes, that is his destiny, and he has always succeeded, no matter how many times he's tried in the past, or else everything would have collapsed. Regardless of how flawed he was, he's always saved the Tower. He just hasn't figured out how to save himself yet.
1. yes, I believe he goes back with his hand healed & whole etc..., but still 'older' (if we can call it that), and with more/different potential each loop.
2. For me, all the key characters 'reset', bit-players may differ?
3. Yes, again I think the Worlds and Beams essentially 'reset' as well.
Thank you. I've been reading a lot of the threads now and I'm happy to find that some of my thoughts or ideas aren't so far from some others and it just makes me feel . . . good.
God. I really loved these books. I'm sad for it to be over. I'm even sad for Roland. But I am optimistic . . . and I believe he will find salvation and after all 7 books, that is a comforting thought.
The ending really surprised me. I heard that 'it really sucked' or that it was the 'worst ending ever'. I could not be more pleased with how it ended. And the fact that it took me by surprise, adds bonus points to that. Like I said, I'm sad for more than one reason, but I'm so happy that I traveled with Roland on his life's quest.
For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.
http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*
Yeah, that sums it up well.
There was a lot of that 'ending' talk out there, some people still feel that way...
Me? - like yourself I loved it. I didn't know HOW he could possibly end it well, then I read what he'd written and thought it was perfect, still feel that way after a few re-reads.
It sumps up everything for me.
Short, beautiful and really meaningful.
Roland would have understood.
Then, shouldn't it still be 1999?
Now that I've had a couple of days to think about everything since I finished, what King did is actually genius. Sort of like his own NeverEnding Story.
I mean, with the exception of the horn, you can continue to re-read these books over and over again . . . and every time you do (like i said with the exception of the horn, but i bet 90% of the fans could use their imaginations for this part) it's just a complete continuation of Roland's quest. And when you've read enough to satisfy yourself and you feel it's time for Roland to rest, you can read it through one last time, read Susannah in New York, leave out the Coda, and use your imagination and assumptions to give Roland the ending you feel he deserves.
It's brilliant.
For those who loved this world... and knew friendly company therein. This Reunion is for you.
http://www.zazzle.com/Kidd_Ikarus*
I agree too, it really puts it together. I would take it one step further and say that The Tower is a manifestation of his obsession. Not that there isn't a real "Tower" but it's representation is based on what is in side of your heart.It sumps up everything for me.
Short, beautiful and really meaningful.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I never thought of it that way Matt, but you do have a good point. It certainly explains how everything on the inside of the Tower is connected to Roland's life, and why it seems to be a lot bigger on the inside than the outside.I agree too, it really puts it together. I would take it one step further and say that The Tower is a manifestation of his obsession. Not that there isn't a real "Tower" but it's representation is based on what is in side of your heart.It sumps up everything for me.
Short, beautiful and really meaningful.
Which does make me wonder if the inside of the Tower would be different for everyone. Well, the Tower is connected to Gan itself in some way, so it's not that much of a stretch.
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
For my part I don't think Roland makes loops... but spirals. It's not my idea but I am absolutely convinced. And if we are talking about a spiral there is no time travelling.
Here is a picture I made it's damn clumsy but that's how I see Roland's journey right now.
"D" means desert.
So all his journeys seem very very similar (their beginnings and ends are specially) but all of them are different and new.
I agree with this thought, that Roland's loop is actually more of a spiral than a loop. In fact, it's all summed with the poignant number 19. Take a look at that number. If you look hard, you could argue that it's shaped like a man (the 1), getting sucked into a constant spiral (the 9).
Unfortunately, Roland (and none of the rest of his ka-tet) had ever considered the option of Roland being in a loop. If they had considered this, and focused on 19 the right way, they might have seen this in the number itself. What's strange is that in some ways, everyone does subconsiously know that Roland is looping/spiraling. Jake, Eddie, and Suze all know that the Tower is his one and only obsession, and he's cursed for it.
So, this is all about Roland. But why? That's the mega question.
Maybe it's because Roland doesn't actually believe in Gan (God), or he certainly doesn't prioritize him. Roland worships the icon (the Tower) more than the actual force behind the icon (Gan/Ka/God). I'm not 100% sure (only read through the series once), but don't the other ka-tet members believe in Gan/God... I know for sure that Susannah does. They are likely granted a form of serenity in the end because of their unselfishness, and faith in Gan. I think that Roland will loop through this cyclical curse for as long as his motives are selfish, instead of solely for serving Gan.
Pride comes before the fall. In Roland's case, Pride comes before the loop.
Sorry - Duplicate Post.
I'm not sure I get your point path?Then, shouldn't it still be 1999?
I don't know if anything is this epic is tied to time that solidly. Time in what world? Time just seems so fluid in the DT that I hadn't ever thought of how that would affect the loops.
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