Now that's the kind of thinking I can get behind. But still, should we be punished for being curious?
Now that's the kind of thinking I can get behind. But still, should we be punished for being curious?
I'm not sure I agree we did learn that. We may learn that that is part of it, but like I said, there really is a Tower and there really is a CK working to bring it down. From the effects of the Beamquake on the world we see, presumably these efforts by the CK are working. If Roland's goal was not met, what then?Originally Posted by Darkthoughts
I was thinking more of the part where the beams have been saved and Roland still wants to reach the Tower...I'm due a reread, but don't Suze or Eddie speculate whether saving the beams was truly Roland's aim?
Yes, but my working theory is that saving the Beams did not make the Tower safe. Safer, but not safe. If Roland "cried off" after Blue Heaven and Maine, which is what I understand you to be suggesting (if wrong, please correct me) I don't believe the Tower to be safe. We are led to believe that if Mordred arrived there safely he could have freed Big Red and together they could have entered the Tower and... well, that's the big question. What would that mean for the multiverse? Best for Roland not to leave such things to chance. Or maybe he's just an obsessive freak. It works both ways.
Ah yes! Minor details I overlooked
I think mostly though that all these important things happen by the way and that what Roland needs to do is not, cry off the Tower, because I believe he must reach it. But that he should cry off the obsession of wanting simply to be there...
...there's more to it, I need to reread to really put what I mean into words.
I'll be happy to revisit it when you get back to the Tower.
Excellent! I just need to read 3 more Jim Butcher books to complete his series (so far) and then I'm embarking on my DT reread (it's for the Tower Connections, so I should be paying even more attention to detail than usual!)
An even more-focused Lisa
Looking forward to seeing what you find in it this time around.
We pretty much agree, but to play Devil's advocate could one make the argument that dropping Jake was a bit...useless? What would have happened if he chose to save him? Worst case scenario it would have taken longer to find Walter, maybe you could say he wouldn't have found those doors but I believe he would have as it was along the path of the beam.
I'd have to re-read to be positive, but it was my understanding that dropping Jake was the sacrifice Roland needed to make in order to be invested with the power to draw his three. So no dropsies, no doors. If that's the case, the answer to your question of worst case scenario would potentially be no Eddie and no Susannah and no undoing Jack Mort's pushing of Jake which eventually led to Roland and Jake's reunion.
Looks like I read the series too fast. I'll have to go back through the first book as well.
I could be off, but it seems to me there was something going on in his talk with the oracle that suggested to me such was true.
Jake had to be dropped in the first book. When this point was written, I'm not sure if Roland was meant to continue along his journey, it was a very short book written when Stephen was very new to the experience.
He was making a hero and an anti-hero at the same time. That is what is classic about Roland of Gilead, just like his Western actor inspirations. He the bad guy you love so much that he has become a good guy.
But Stephen DID end up writing more of the tale (As we know!), and through that Roland had a lot of emotional and character development. Because of his actions from the beginning into the end, he has BECOME the hero King may have thought up originally.
So he HAD to do some bad things, don't you see?
Do you think one of you guys could recap the part with the oracle (or whatever) that leads you to believe that Jake was a necessary sacrifice in order to draw the three? I'm trying for all its worth and I just can't remember this part of the books.
Time and Fact issue for ending? *spoilers
Ok... so... i just finished the book... still having crazy feelings but this one is sticking a little too much for me to just sit on it....
Ok, so in "the real world" of 99... time always moves forward correct? never backward.
also, true for the world of 19 "Roland's World" this is stated right up to almost the end of the book.
Then how can Roland go back and loop?
i've been thinking and i've come to a few conclusions and i just don't know if any really fit if at all.
A. well... its GAN and GAN can do w'ev teh GAN Wahn' t' doh. in regards to time and doors etc. etc.
B. Where Roland comes out is another version of Roland's world, like the many versions of New York.
C. Stephen King wrote that as, that is just what the characters THINK but they are simply wrong....
I dunno, what do you think....
i really don't think that SK made a mistake like this, it is too obvious.
I too thought it was a loop to the beginning of where WE were introduced to Roland.
I dunno if i'm happy about the ending or not in my honest opinion.
happy the journey continues
sad the journey continues
Did anyone else get wide eyed about half way up the tower and then start screaming KA IS A GAWD-DAMN(bomb) WHEEL!!!! in their heads? cuz i did and then when the loop happened pretty much (roughly) the way i thought it was gonna happen it made me angry i predicted it, but happy at the same time... yay mixed feelings again
Also, did any of you actually consider stop reading when SK basically said to? i considered it, but i read on, i don't regret it though me thinks.
B & C are both possibilities I have considered.
It is distinctly possible that Roland has gone to another level of the Tower rather than "resetting" to the desert on the same level he was on for the loop that we've read.
I also think C is something quite important and I'm glad to see someone else mention it. There's been a lot of discussion about things that may or may not go against the "rules" of the Keystone worlds (19 and 99) but as far as I remember these were never hard and fast rules written by King as narration, rather they were always speculation on the part of the characters and there is no reason to assume they are absolutely correct.
Welcome to the site Bumbler.
Even though it's sort of a cop out, I think that the Tower/Gan is above the rules. It exists out of time and therefore can do whatever it wants practically. This is the most logical answer I figure.
I understood Keystone Earth was the only place where time never went back.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I think that was said Matt, but was it ever said by King as the narrator of the story, or was it only speculated upon by characters (specifically the tet)?
I cannot think of a single time it was said by anyone other than the characters and there is no way they could know that for a fact. It was a theory on which they were working. Now, that doesn't mean it's not true, but it also doesn't mean it is true. It's not as Roland had a rule book of how the different worlds worked. In truth, we have no definitive concept of how time actually works in the Keystone or any other world.
I'm certainly taking a break from King. I need to diversify my reading.
I'm sort of drawn to B as an answer. This also plays into the possibility that I've been toying with that The Crimson King, Stephen King and Roland may very well be multiversional aspects of each other.
Thanks for the replies all...
More to ponder on i guess!
and thanks for the welcome R of G, although, i have been a member of this site before, years ago so it looked quite different and i think since then my account has gotten deleted lol.
In that case, welcome back.
The site itself is only about a year and a half old. You may be thinking about dt.net (mostly red forum)...that one is gone now.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
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