19 is too few IMHO. 99 is what feels right to me. This appeared on a message board in amazon.com, anyway:
the quest in the books is the 99th and the next quest is the final, it is recounted in Robert Browning's poem. King's is a type of prequel.
this is just a theory i found interesting.
Hmmmmm that is interesting theory Nusik. Thanks for sharing it.Originally Posted by nusik
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
King is very definite on this point: the next iteration is not the last, and not even close to the last.
Which makes total sense because it would take more than one more time to redemption imo.
Change is a very slow process IRL
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
But now he's got the Horn of Eld so there is definite progression for him.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Progression isn't redemption though.... it's just a start.
Did I say it was?
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Calm down. I was just pointing it out.
Having the Horn is wicked cool but people do make too big a deal over it.
I'm calm. I'll let you know when I'm not. Having the Horn of Eld IS a big deal because it shows that there is a possibility for the loop ending and that he isn't damned for eternity.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Oh, I agree with you. But I don't believe having the horn means he will end his quest next time. The horn is just a symbol of change, not a symbol of redemption and finality.
Anyway, this is off topic though and there are other threads in which to discuss the horn.
As far as how many times Roland has looped, I guess I can dig the 19th time that people have said but really, I have no idea. It could be his 119th time for all I know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I've ever given two shits about staying on topic...anyway I find the 99 idea to be kind of interesting...thats sure as shit delah loops..
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I like the 99 times idea too. Or maybe 1999th time? Hmmm.
Who knows? Maybe his next time will be his last, because he'll fail and finally get eaten by Mordred or exploded out of his boots on the Red Fields of None?
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Or maybe it was the first...*runs out of the room*
Roland would have understood.
I'm not being funny here - but would King nessecarily know?
I like to think the next may be the last - or at least damn close to it.
Or maybe it was the first...Well, the text at the end of DT7 tends to make that unlikely, i think?
Besides the fact that he is the author?
That was cute, but hes right.Or maybe it was the first...
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
For me, there is nothing in the text that makes me believe the next time is his last.
Yes, I'd have to agree...it could not have been his first time.
Somewhere between 19 and 99 maybe. It's a hard question to answer considering how determined Roland is on reaching the Tower and what mistakes he makes on each loop. He may learn some lessons on the next loop but only to go and make more as well. Condemning him to repeat the loops until hes get it right one time.
So if this trip up the Tower earns Roland the horn of Eld, what has he earned/lost the previous (how ever many, 19, 99, 1999, delah) trips up the Tower?
And on that note, - how many times must I read / listen to the series to hear the altered tale where he grabs the horn on Jerico Hill?
I'm gonna guess 19 just because.
For me personally, if the next time wasn't the last, the whole story would be substantially cheapened, especially the Horn's role in it. From a symbol of redemption if will turn into another artefact of those a computer game character gathers to get to another level. Luckily, nothing in the novel (or nothing I have been able to notice so far) points out that that might be the case.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The way I have seen it- The Tower saga as a whole is the absolute anti-love story.
The entire journey(s) is Ka's way of beating a very stubborn Roland over the head with the message that love should be more important than anything, something he should have realized when he lost Susan, or Cuthbert, or Alain ect... A message that Roland never seems to get, and thus is doomed to try again and again. Hence why he restarts alone in the desert, instead of mayhap Gilead before his trial. This journey up the tower seems to show a very slight progress, (even though he still has lost everyone and everything to the tower.) and is rewarded with the horn of Eld.
"Ok, a little better this time- here's your horn. Try again, but this time lets not let everyone you care for die horribly huh?"
Just a theroy-
It could be that because he dared to find the tower, this is Ka's way of punishing him for all eternity.
Mayhap all the worlds are destined for discordia, and Rolands constant questing is fighting Ka.
Roland - the anti Ka?
Mayhap?
Going along with what Jean had said, about this being their 19th time through dude to there being the number 19 everywhere, but what if they 19 meant that Roland had 10 more times to do the quest over until he finially earned his rest?
All good answers. If Roland has to repeat his quest, does that mean he has to draw in different people to be part of his new ka-tet? And if so, why?
It's all up in the air at this point. The items he collects could be the same, they people that give it to him however, could be totally different.
Anti-love story? It's full of love. I mean if it's hard for someone to love it means his story becomes an anty-love story? Anyway it's not just about Roland, it's about his whole ka-tet.
Moreover for my part I am proud of Roland because he can love more and more by the time being.
So we see this story very differently - it's absolutely okay of course but it surprised me.
Roland would have understood.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
