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Thread: Walter General Discussion: The Gunslinger **spoilers

  1. #51
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    I mean that in my view, the cycles don't stop. The Tower is never protected once and for all. Until there is something else to take Roland's place, Roland protects the Tower. He's the last of the Eld. The Eld are sworn to protect the Tower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    But guys... what was that oh-so-damn-important information Walter gave Roland? Roland would have found and opened those doors without his help, too. For my part I am sure Roland would have reached the Tower without "his help" so I don't really see how Walter helped Roland so much.
    Well true, but perhaps it was Walter's ka or anti-ka that he had to speak with Roland before he dissolved to take his new form...

  3. #53
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    I just read most of this thread and I must say it is very intruiging.

    I think I'm going to agree slightly with R_of_G when he says the cycle will continue. No matter what Roland does there will always be the tower. However, the tower will always need Roland to protect it. The beginning will always be the same with him walking in the desert chasing the MIB and end with him walking through the door in the Tower. HOWEVER, there is one big difference between "cycles". We see the difference here as the horn of the eld. One being at the the end of he picks up and carries the horn of the eld with him. He will have that the next go around. Will this change anything throughout his quest this time?? Who knows.

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    And if Jake hadn't been dropped, would he have not been okay, and Roland wouldn't have gone temporarily crazy?

  5. #55
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker View Post
    And if Jake hadn't been dropped, would he have not been okay, and Roland wouldn't have gone temporarily crazy?
    my belief is if he didn't drop jake, he wouldn't have been able to draw the others. i believe the scene with the oracle makes it clear that in order for Roland to be invested with the drawing power there had to be a sacrifice, the sacrifice being jake. so he might not have gone crazy, but who knows what would have happened without the others or what.

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    Vedddy interesting...

  7. #57
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    of course i could be wrong. many think i am.

  8. #58
    Traveler Father Callahan is on a distinguished road

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    Default Walter's role *kinda spoilers*

    What exactly is Walter's role in the series? In The Gunslinger he is a nemesis, he is trying to stop Roland but at the end instead of fighting or whatever, Walter helps him and they palaver. And I'm not sure of anybody's identity. Are Flagg Marten Farson and Walter all the same person? There is evidence in all books claiming they are and they aren't. It's very confusing.

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    I consider them all one in the same and I gotta admit, the more I talk about this series....the more I think Walter was trying to help him in his weirdo (self serving) way.

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  10. #60
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    i think Walter is all of them except Farson.

    i thought (a) the revised says that they are different people, and (b) the comics show Walter and Farson talking to each other as different people.

    no?

  11. #61
    Traveler Father Callahan is on a distinguished road

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    Thank you for the welcome!

    It seems to me they are one in the same as well. But aren't there references to Walter bringing Marten to Roland and things like that? How did Roland start chasing "the man in black" anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    i think Walter is all of them except Farson.

    i thought (a) the revised says that they are different people, and (b) the comics show Walter and Farson talking to each other as different people.

    no?
    Yes.

  13. #63
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    Ooops--didn't see Farson on the list. He would be a different person for sure imo.
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  14. #64
    Traveler Father Callahan is on a distinguished road

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    But what about Marten and Walter? Isn't there a part in the first book where it mentions Walter betraying Marten and bringing him to fight Roland?

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I think that might be fixed in the revised edition pere. I'm not sure. The verdict is still out about Marten and Walter in the first three books. I don't think King was sure about it until much later. DT 7 Makes it clear that they are the same person, I think. Read the part where Walter is thinking about Roland before he encounters Mordred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Callahan View Post
    But what about Marten and Walter? Isn't there a part in the first book where it mentions Walter betraying Marten and bringing him to fight Roland?
    I'm not sure if that was ever said, even before they were retconned into being the same.

    It IS very confusing, because King only made this change halfway through the books. So if you read it in order, its like this.

    *spoilers*

    Revised 1: Walter and Marten are the same. Walter's implied to be alive at the end.
    2: Walter's dead. He's also seperate from Marten. I think there's one scene where Roland thinks about three different wizards...Walter, Marten and Flagg!
    3: Walter's still dead. Flagg appears at the end.
    4: Roland again makes reference to Walter and Marten as seperate people.
    5, 6 and 7: Walter and Marten and Flagg are the same, and everyone acts like they knew it all along.

    Would have made more sense to make it a revelation that Roland discovers halfway through the series but hey I'm not writing it...


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  17. #67
    Michael Jackson KO1 is on a distinguished road KO1's Avatar

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    But wouldnt these inconsistancies be simply explained by Roland not being aware that all these individuals were in fact the same person

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberGhostface View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Father Callahan View Post
    But what about Marten and Walter? Isn't there a part in the first book where it mentions Walter betraying Marten and bringing him to fight Roland?
    I'm not sure if that was ever said, even before they were retconned into being the same.

    It IS very confusing, because King only made this change halfway through the books. So if you read it in order, its like this.

    {snipped for space}

    5, 6 and 7: Walter and Marten and Flagg are the same, and everyone acts like they knew it all along.

    Would have made more sense to make it a revelation that Roland discovers halfway through the series but hey I'm not writing it...
    This is one of my biggest peeves - the merging of Walter, Marten, and Flagg - but I agree it would've been a bit more palatable had it been a revelation.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by KO1 View Post
    But wouldnt these inconsistancies be simply explained by Roland not being aware that all these individuals were in fact the same person
    No, because at the end of the first book he knows who they are, then he's back to forgetting them in the next three books, and then he's back to remembering them in the last three with no explanation.


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    Walter's presence was to provide one of the biggest surprises of SK history...!!!

  21. #71
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    And one of the most unneccessary in the long run.


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    *shrugs* I liked it. I don't think the first book would have been half as readable without him.

  23. #73
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    He was already in it in the first book...he just wasn't Marten.


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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberGhostface View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KO1 View Post
    But wouldnt these inconsistancies be simply explained by Roland not being aware that all these individuals were in fact the same person
    No, because at the end of the first book he knows who they are, then he's back to forgetting them in the next three books, and then he's back to remembering them in the last three with no explanation.
    Could you provide examples of how Roland "forgets" that they are all the same in books 2-4? Passages would be good, so I can read them myself and try to figure out your position better. As of now, I am completely lost how you can come the your conclusions.

  25. #75
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    Every single time he makes reference to the Walter Trinity in Books 2-4, he makes reference to them being different people. Because obviously when King wrote them Walter and Marten were seperate people in Book 1.

    When he thinks about the different wizards he knows near the end Book 2, for example, he mentions Walter, Marten and Flagg. In Book 4, when talking about Rhea in the beginning, he goes "She wasn't as bad as Marten...probably not even as bad as Walter"

    That's the biggest inconsistency created by DT1 revised. Other ones include mentions of Roland facing the Beast and Maerlyn even though they were written out of the palaver, although the references to them are pretty small so its easy(ier) to ignore.


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