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Thread: Walter General Discussion: The Gunslinger **spoilers

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Default Walter General Discussion: The Gunslinger **spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    TerribleT, why did he have to drop Jake? Would it have been so horrible to lose 2 minutes or less? I could never understand why people say he had no other choice. I know it's off topic but somehow I don't get it.
    The problem might be in my mind.
    If I could suggest an answer, though i would like to hear T's as well... I believe by offering Jake as a sacrifice, Walter was bound to palaver with Roland and show him the vision he shows him. Had he not dropped Jake, he'd never had had the palaver and may not have been imbued with the power to draw, or at least not the knowledge of it.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    But guys... what was that oh-so-damn-important information Walter gave Roland? Roland would have found and opened those doors without his help, too. For my part I am sure Roland would have reached the Tower without "his help" so I don't really see how Walter helped Roland so much.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    TerribleT, why did he have to drop Jake? Would it have been so horrible to lose 2 minutes or less? I could never understand why people say he had no other choice. I know it's off topic but somehow I don't get it.
    The problem might be in my mind.
    If you go back and read the passage in the book where he drops Jake, you'll understand that the only way save Jake would be to let the man in black go. It's not a matter of two minutes, it's that the trestle collapses, and they have to go back through the slow mutants to get out of the tunnel under the mountain. They may not even survive that encounter, much less find another way to catch the man in black, and get what he knows. We later find out that what the man in black knows is essential to Roland being able to "draw" Eddie and Detta/Odetta. The MIB also has other info pertaining to Roland's quest.

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    In addition to what T just said, which I agree with, Walter also suggests to Roland that the act of dropping Jake is related to the creation of the three doors Roland will encounter on the beach. So it is possible that with no dropping there'd be no doors.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    But guys... what was that oh-so-damn-important information Walter gave Roland? Roland would have found and opened those doors without his help, too. For my part I am sure Roland would have reached the Tower without "his help" so I don't really see how Walter helped Roland so much.
    No, the MIB tells Roland of his ability to "draw", and Roland's not aware of it until the palaver with him.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    He would have found those doors without his help, too. And he would have opened them all. Did you read anywhere that Walter gave Roland the power to open them? I don't remember anything like that.

    Roland would have understood.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    But guys... what was that oh-so-damn-important information Walter gave Roland? Roland would have found and opened those doors without his help, too. For my part I am sure Roland would have reached the Tower without "his help" so I don't really see how Walter helped Roland so much.
    No, the MIB tells Roland of his ability to "draw", and Roland's not aware of it until the palaver with him.
    And do you think he would have passed the doors without this piece of information??
    For me the whole Man In Black thing was a big humbug a damn big trap Roland didn't see and went into.

    And now I'm gonna open a thread where we can talk about Walter's help and his part in the story and if he helped Roland or not. Okay?
    Just give me some moments and I'll move the posts too.
    Keep on posting, I will move them.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    But guys... what was that oh-so-damn-important information Walter gave Roland? Roland would have found and opened those doors without his help, too. For my part I am sure Roland would have reached the Tower without "his help" so I don't really see how Walter helped Roland so much.
    No, the MIB tells Roland of his ability to "draw", and Roland's not aware of it until the palaver with him.
    And do you think he would have passed the doors without this piece of information??
    For me the whole Man In Black thing was a big humbug a damn big trap Roland didn't see and went into.
    He would have had to find a way back out from under the mountains, and then back over the mountains to the beach in order to find the doors.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Default Walter's help *BIG spoilers*

    Dear Reader!
    Be Careful.
    This thread might contain spoilers.




    So...
    did Walter give any important information to Roland during their little palaver?
    And if he did... why the blue hell did he help him? Weren't they enemies?

    Sometimes I feel the whole Man in Balck stuff was a big humbug a trap Roland didn't see. I think he shouldn't have chosen Walter, he should have saved Jake.
    He would have found his way to the doors anyway.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Walter gave several important bits of information to Roland during their palaver. The most important piece of info was his ability to draw. He also told Roland that he would be drawing three companions, that he was the only one able to save the Tower, (because of his slow plodding mind), and where Roland needed to go next in order to find the doors. Walter was bound to give this information to Roland, because of Roland's sacrifice of Jake.

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    this totally discounts the notion of ka tho'.
    And tho' the telling of the tale the way it was
    told ( magnificently ) is not a story of what if's
    it is a story of why it is. ( imo )

    The answer is within

    all matter is energy, all energy is GOD

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    I'll be back later to comment

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Roland could catch the Man in Black because Walter wanted it too. He could have vanished anytime but he didn't. Because he wanted to talk to Roland as well.
    If Walter hadn't wanted to be caught Roland would have never been able to talk to him.

    Roland would have understood.

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    I share Nikolett's suspicion that Walter didn't really say anything. It looks like his main purpose was to throw Roland off his course by making him believe something could be achieved by that talk. Consequently, Roland lets Jake drop, I am inclined to think that action put him furthest away from the Tower he had ever been or would be; later his trying to repair the damage leads him to almost losing his mind. That looks like something Walter could have to some degree anticipated, too.

    and, Lady Linda... there is no ka.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I share Nikolett's suspicion that Walter didn't really say anything. It looks like his main purpose was to throw Roland off his course by making him believe something could be achieved by that talk. Consequently, Roland lets Jake drop, I am inclined to think that action put him furthest away from the Tower he had ever been or would be; later his trying to repair the damage leads him to almost losing his mind. That looks like something Walter could have to some degree anticipated, too.

    and, Lady Linda... there is no ka.
    ...in the books. In the real world it is everywhere.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Hey, at least I didn't edit your post to make YOU say it. I did consider it.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Again, I don't think it's a matter of whether or not Roland would have found the doors on the beach if he'd not dropped Jake, but a matter of whether or not there'd even be doors on the beach if he didn't. I can check the book when I get home from work today, but between my interpretation of the last time I read it and my recent read of Bev's "Road to the Dark Tower," I am pretty sure there is something said about how the act of dropping Jake is fundamentally involved with the creation of the doors in the first place. If that is the case, there is no what if. No drop, no doors. No doors, Roland dies from his infection.

    As to Letti's question of why did Walter "help" Roland... It seems to me there are some "rules" for how supernatural creatures like the oracle or Walter have to behave in certain situations. The oracle informs Roland of what is to be done with Jake, and by Roland fulfilling that sacrifice Walter is bound to palaver with Roland in the golgotha. Whether or not that meeting helped Roland is up for all kinds of debate, but Walter did what ka made him do at that point.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Interesting that before his palaver with Walter Roland was already shown a vision of The Three he would draw with his vision given to him by the Oracle.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Interesting that before his palaver with Walter Roland was already shown a vision of The Three he would draw with his vision given to him by the Oracle.
    Exactly, and was it not fairly clear that the oracle showed him that "the sacrifice" [ie. Jake] was the path to these three?

    btw Matt, love the mood today. an angelic crimson king. gotta love it.

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    Yeah, and we now know that
    Spoiler:
    the Oracle was a demon working for Los'
    so I wonder if she was helping Walter in setting a trap for Roland. The trap being putting him in the position with the idea that either he drop Jake or not reach the Tower.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Donkey Thief Mike Beck is on a distinguished road Mike Beck's Avatar

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    hmm. it's been awhile since i read it, but isn't there something in book 5 (during callahan's flashback to the desert way station) that gives us some insight into what was going on in walter's head right at that moment?

    can't foind me book roight now.

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    is that a British accent? it is very convincing.



    Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
    Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa



    sugarpop <3

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    I agree with Letti, I think the MIB was just messing with Roland. I think his aim (during the palaver at the Golgotha) was to scare Roland off the quest for the Tower with the overwhelming vision of the immensity of it all.

    All he does aside from that is tell Roland's fortune. I don't believe Walter had the power to command the doors - I think that is Gan's doing. After all, it is contrary to Walter's aims that Roland should recruit more gunslingers.

    I'm going to dedicate the rest of the day to finding this passage (that I possibly imagined) that says Roland must not drop Jake

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    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I'm going to dedicate the rest of the day to finding this passage (that I possibly imagined) that says Roland must not drop Jake
    Which will make me go home later and look for the passage that says he must.

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