Top 100 Novels of All Time - General Discussion

[Stockerlone]

The Little Prince from Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[pathoftheturtle]

Lonesome Dove Larry McMurtry

Second Petit Prince

[Stebbins]

I second The Sun Also Rises

[RainInSpain]

Seconding The Little Prince.

Nominating Les Grandes Familles by Maurice Druon.

[Mattrick]

I vehemently add a - 1 to the sun also rises. There are a lot of Hemingway to suggest besides that one. For whom the bell tolls comes to mind.

EW chose it from all Hemingway for their top 100 so I am not alone in loving it.

[Stebbins]

For Whom the Bell Tolls is another great one. But I think Rises is even more tragic in it's own way. And I find the title humorously ironic.

[fearless-freak]

Weaveworld by Clive Barker

i was gonna say The Hellbound Heart, but that's a novella

[Mattrick]

For Whom the Bell Tolls is another great one. But I think Rises is even more tragic in it's own way. And I find the title humorously ironic.

Tragic but very funny as well. I read it in the middle of a lake in a canoe...was wonderful.


thirty pages left of Pride and Prejudice, which I will undoubtedly second.

[Dan]

Ill second Weaveworld

[Mattrick]

We do not want to overly rush to the voting process, do we? isn't this a great way for as all to read or rediscover a bunch of great books? I own at least a dozen nominated books id like to read before voting. Ill be trying to knock a book or two a week off my list nominated reads. Personally id be rather okay with voting starting in December to make the list as comprehensive as possible. Movied we could rush but books take time. If the more noms we all read, the less popularity or a accessibility will be a factor. my opinion, at least.

[CyberGhostface]

Nominating NOS4A2 by Joe Hill.

Really? As one of the 100 best of all time?

http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...l=1#post794271



And with that, I believe it is time to go forth and do other things. Best of wishes folks!!

*shrugs* Most of my other picks were already selected and I wanted to nominate a Joe Hill book.

[Merlin1958]

Nominating NOS4A2 by Joe Hill.

Really? As one of the 100 best of all time?

http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...l=1#post794271



And with that, I believe it is time to go forth and do other things. Best of wishes folks!!

*shrugs* Most of my other picks were already selected and I wanted to nominate a Joe Hill book.

IDK, I was just thinking "we're talking about the 100 best novels of all time" and while, Joe Hill is great is he really in that class? Or, Clive Barker (whom I really enjoy) I mean there is a certain inherent responsibility here, no? I may be nuts and that's OK, but it's just MHO. No love for "The Godfather"?

How about, Andromeda Strain, by Mike Crichton??? Or "Then there were none", by Agatha Christie? Or, The Hunt for Red October, by Clancy? Broaden our horizons a little? Just a thought is all.

"2001" by Arthur C. Clarke?

[CyberGhostface]

Well I'm sure there are critics who would scoff at King being included in such a list. It's all subjective after a certain point.

Also throwing in a nom for Let the Right One In by John Ajvide Lindqvist.

[Merlin1958]

Well I'm sure there are critics who would scoff at King being included in such a list. It's all subjective after a certain point.

Also throwing in a nom for Let the Right One In by John Ajvide Lindqvist.

True (though bastards they may be), but I was only trying to get folks to more carefully consider their Noms. All opinions are valid!!! Not trying to say otherwise. Just trying to make everyone really "think" first. Cool?

[mystima]

is Andromeda Strain a nom because if it is I will second it, if not I will nominate it.

[mae]

Have to agree with Merlin here, as I'm seeing more and more nominations for novels that objectively couldn't really be vying for a spot in an all-time best ranking, no matter how much one enjoyed it. I'd suggest peeps go through some past list created over the years by various folks like Modern Library etc. to refresh your memories as to what we may have overlooked.

[Jean]

To me, a series tells one ongoing story. So, The Dark Tower, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones. If it's different stories, it's not a series per se.

Then, my opinion is they qualify and can be for short called "multivolume novels", like War and Peace.

i get what you mean turtle, its like Lord of The Rings Tolkien originally conceived it as one volume (which you can get now) but iwould have been too much so they decided to set it into three volumes... there, my hat is now in the ring

The authors intent should play a significant factor IMHO. King intended TDT to be multiple volumes, clearly. As did Tolkien and to my knowledge, Carroll. A story has a beginning, a middle and an end regardless of publishing quirks/marketing or time frame. FWIW A good example is Tolkien in that The Hobbit was intended as a children's book and no necessarily required reading to enjoy "TLOTR" as the central information needed from "The Hobbit" is provided in the trilogy again. Also, the central character changed from book to trilogy.

The Dark Tower, on the other hand, was never intended to be a series, much less a single novel. In fact it started out as separate novellas, so you can view The Gunslinger as either a novel, which was published in installments, or a collection of novellas.

True, but at some point King changed his mind as clearly evidenced by the numbering and the "R" naming of the volumes, no?

Spoiler:

Plus the "Full circle" nature of the story. Also, could you really say that anyof the TDT novels can be read as single novels Other than TDTI? Certainly not TDT II, through VII, right? 4.5 can be a standalone, but it does fit rather nicely into the series as well as LSOE short story.

Even in a series of novels like TDT or ASoIaF or Chronicles of Narnia, each part of the series is a complete novel.

I disagree.

I think if we judge series in with novels they'll get an unfair advantage since there's so much more to judge them on.

I don't really think so. Length has very little to do with the value.

I don't really think it is a matter of wether you "could" read any series of novels as a stand alone, but more a matter of a continuing underlying and over-riding story line in the case of TDT. They were written in installments, yes, but are intended to read as a single story. Now, "The DaVinci Code" is a single novel that introduces a character that has further adventures, but each story is complete. Hard to argure that "Roland" reaching the Tower is not the central underkying theme, IMHO

The dark tower is a complete novel, each picks up where the previous ended. It is one novel in parts.

I think that if you could read the first installment (or any other installment) of a series and be completely satisfied, and have a solid ending that is not dependent on future installments for resolution, then it is a novel. If none of the installments can stand alone then it is one long novel. I think that this qualifies, most definitively, Lord of the Rings and TDT. I've not read any of the other series in question except an incomplete reading of the Harry Potter series, which I am less sure should qualify. However, I feel like the HP series is one of the great pieces of literature of our time and should thus have a rightful place on the list. But, then if it should pass the test, then I think that most series should be found acceptable.

I haven't nominated or voted (yet) but it's unfair to other writers that a series of books is considered one title. Why should King get a pass and have thousands of pages to tell a story and drive a point home? Yes, it's a series of books that works best as a whole but for something like this, you need a level playing field. FWIW, the original The Gunslinger can be a complete stand alone with a dark, ominuous, open-ended ending. You could also pick up The Drawing without reading The Gunslinger. Ditto W&G and King himself said you can read The Wind without prior knowledge of DT. It says so in the book.

The Wind is a separate novel, which proves that TDT - a complete novel - is part of the series, which include the Wind, Eluria, the Eyes and maybe something else. It is, actually, a good example of a long novel vs. series.

The wastelands, wizard and glass wolves of the calla and song of susannah have no direct endings and two dont tell andly specific, isolated story to be considered anything but a piece of a larger novel. It is one novel, designed to be one large story from the get go. Don't think of it as a series but instead as one novel written in installments, as many of the greatest novels have been...just not over this period of time. Dexter is a series, TDT is not.

thus, I think many people here agree with my clumsy definition

a novel is a long piece of prose that starts on, or about, the first page and ends on, or about, the last
<...>
A series, consequently, is a number of interconnected novels, each of which is a novel, that is, starts at the beginning and ends at the end of this particular novel.

and I would just rely on my own common sense, if only I'd read all the suspects. I have to ask people to look at the least once again and tell me which of the nominants, in their opinion, don't comply with the definition of "an ongoing story, with a beginning, an ending," or which of the previously rejected novels have been, in this light, rejected mistakenly.

[Jean]

Seconding Leatherstocking and The Last Of The Mohicans.
(Funny that just the other day I also thought about nominating one of Cooper's novels, but real life stuff intervened )

I'm currently debating with myself the definition of "Top 100". Are we choosing the most popular, most interesting, most thought-provoking, most touching, or what?
Reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking of nominating Justine by marquis de Sade - not because it is fun or a pleasure to read, or leaves good memories, etc. but solely in the name of justice to the genre. However, I'm not sure it would be right to nominate something that I actually don't like.

No, of course it wouldn't. We nominate the ones we personally consider great.

[pathoftheturtle]

Have to agree with Merlin here, as I'm seeing more and more nominations for novels that objectively couldn't really be vying for a spot in an all-time best ranking, no matter how much one enjoyed it. I'd suggest peeps go through some past list created over the years by various folks like Modern Library etc. to refresh your memories as to what we may have overlooked.

Some of the people here have less memories to refresh than others do, because they're younger. Honestly, I don't think a setting such as this is likely to produce really professional results like that. We shouldn't exclude people just because the favorite book they've read so far isn't necessarily classic to more experienced readers. It's all good fun, I think.

Jean: Are you considering the practicalities? If someone really loves a series that doesn't qualify under the "common sense" *coff-gag-cough* rule, they could theoretically go ahead and nominate each book in that series independently. They should, in fact, have that right. But so equally should someone who loves another series... and we're still just doing 200 nominations, right?

[Jean]

why, of course every single novel in a series can be nominated

I probably fail to think even one step ahead, but I can't see any problem here. We accept max 3 books from an author. I don't know about 200 nominations, either: I'll do the update later today if nothing happens and see how it goes.

We do not want to overly rush to the voting process, do we? isn't this a great way for as all to read or rediscover a bunch of great books? I own at least a dozen nominated books id like to read before voting. Ill be trying to knock a book or two a week off my list nominated reads. Personally id be rather okay with voting starting in December to make the list as comprehensive as possible. Movied we could rush but books take time. If the more noms we all read, the less popularity or a accessibility will be a factor. my opinion, at least.

Totally

Have to agree with Merlin here, as I'm seeing more and more nominations for novels that objectively couldn't really be vying for a spot in an all-time best ranking, no matter how much one enjoyed it. I'd suggest peeps go through some past list created over the years by various folks like Modern Library etc. to refresh your memories as to what we may have overlooked.

I think greatly enjoying a novel is reason enough to consider it "best". The only thing one may want to think about is whether or not there are 100 others s/he has overlooked. Hence, it's a very good idea to look around - not to let someone influence one's opinion, of course, but, as you said, to refresh one's memory.

[WeDealInLead]

I nominate Ringworld by Larry Niven

Votes to:
1984 10
20,000 Leagues Under The Sea 5
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The 9
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (and Through the Looking-Glass) 5
Animal Farm 5
Brave New World 3
Breakfast of Champions 2
Catch-22 5
Fahrenheit 451 9
Gulliver's Travels 5
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, The 5
I Am Legend 6
It 8
Journey to the Center of the Earth 3
Man in the High Castle, The 1
Shining, The 5
Slaughterhouse-Five 4
Stand, The 10

I added one vote to the books I'd like to second.

I still strongly disagree with including series of books as one novel. Movies aren't judged this way (who'd vote for Star Wars with prequels and Terminator after T2 anyways), why should the books be? Even we (TDT) didn't do this in yearly polls for best SK book. My problem is, again, that series have an unfair advantage. They can capitalize on the emotional connection that reader has to characters. Case in point: Eddie and Jake. A reader could confuse his attachment and emotional response with good writing. That said, I cannot vote for TDT because some parts are better than the whole.

[Jean]

Last of the Mohicans is a great novel.

is it a seconding?

thirty pages left of Pride and Prejudice, which I will undoubtedly second.

Good. I'm nominating it.

So, bears hereby nominate Pride and Prejudice, by Jane Austen

[Jean]

Nominating NOS4A2 by Joe Hill.

Really? As one of the 100 best of all time?

http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...l=1#post794271



And with that, I believe it is time to go forth and do other things. Best of wishes folks!!

*shrugs* Most of my other picks were already selected and I wanted to nominate a Joe Hill book.

IDK, I was just thinking "we're talking about the 100 best novels of all time" and while, Joe Hill is great is he really in that class? Or, Clive Barker (whom I really enjoy) I mean there is a certain inherent responsibility here, no? I may be nuts and that's OK, but it's just MHO. No love for "The Godfather"?

How about, Andromeda Strain, by Mike Crichton??? Or "Then there were none", by Agatha Christie? Or, The Hunt for Red October, by Clancy? Broaden our horizons a little? Just a thought is all.

"2001" by Arthur C. Clarke?

Is any of the above (except Andromeda, which has been nominated) a nomination?

P.S. I think N0S4A2 is as good a nomination as any (and better than some), though I personally wish Horns was nominated instead...

[Jean]

1984 12
20,000 Leagues Under The Sea 5
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The 9
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (and Through the Looking-Glass) 9
All Quiet on The Western Front 3
American Psycho 1
American Tragedy, An 1
Andromeda Strain, The 5
Animal Farm 7
As I Lay Dying 1
Ball and the Cross, The 0
Battlefield Earth 1
Battle Royale 0
Beloved 0
Black Water 1
Bonfire of the Vanities, The 2
Brave New World 4
Breakfast of Champions 2
Broken Sword, The 0
Candide 4
Carrion Comfort 1
Castle, The 2
Catch-22 5
Catcher in the Rye, The 7
Charlotte's Web 3
Children of Men 0
Clockwork Orange, A 3
Cloud Atlas 1
Count of Monte Cristo, The 2
Crime and Punishment 6
Dark Tower, The 10
David Copperfield 3
Da Vinci Code, The 2
Don Quixote 3
Dracula 5
Dragonriders of Pern 0
Dune 3
East of Eden 2
Ender’s Game 1
Everything is Illuminated 1
Exorcist, The 6
Fahrenheit 451 11
Fight Club 4
Finnegan's Wake 0
Foucault's Pendulum 0
Foundation 2
Frankenstein 2
Gone with the Wind 2
Geek Love 0
Ghost Story 3
Glass Bead Game, The 3
Godfather, The 0
Grandes Familles, Les 0
Great Expectations 2
Great Gatsby, The 1
Gulliver's Travels 5
Handmaid's Tale, The 0
Harry Potter 6
Haunting of Hill House, The 3
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, The 5
I Am Legend 6
Interview With The Vampire 3
It 9
Jane Eyre 4
Jaws 1
Journey to the Center of the Earth 3
Jurassic Park 2
Karamazov Brothers, The 2
Kim 2
Last of the Mohicans, The 1
Leatherstocking 1
Let the Right One In 0
Liaisons dangereuses, Les 0
Life of Pi 1
Little Prince, The 2
Little Women 1
Lolita 4
Lonesome Dove 0
Long Walk, The 5
Lord Of The Flies 12
Lord of the Rings 6
Lost World, The 3
Lucky Jim 0
Man in the High Castle, The 1
Master and Margarita, The 1
Metro 2033 0
Misérables, Les 4
Monk, The 0
Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, The 0
Musashi 0
Northanger Abbey 3
NOS4A2 0
Notes From Underground 0
Of Mice and Men 5
Old Man and the Sea, The 1
Old Yeller 0
One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest 4
On the Beach 0
On the Road 0
Out of the Silent Planet 0
Outsiders, The 4
Pilgrimage: The Book of the People 0
Portnoy's Complaint 0
Pride and Prejudice 0
Princess Bride, The 0
Psycho 2
Rabbit Series 0
Ready Player One 0
Rebecca 0
Red Badge of Courage, The 1
Ringworld 0
Road, The 4
Robinson Crusoe 3
Room 0
Rosemary's Baby 4
Scarlet Letter, The 3
Silence of the Lambs, The 3
Silmarillion, The 0
Simple Plan, A 0
Shining, The 6
Slaughterhouse-Five 4
Something Wicked This Way Comes 1
Song of Ice and Fire, A 5
Sound and the Fury, The 0
Stand, The 12
Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde 5
Stranger, The 2
Strangers on a Train 2
Sun Also Rises, The 2
Taiko 0
Terror, The 3
Thief of Always, The 2
To Kill a Mockingbird 14
Treasure Island 6
Trial, The 1
Turn of the Screw, The 3
War and Peace 1
War of the Worlds 3
Water for Elephants 0
We 1
Weaveworld 1
Where the Red Fern Grows 1
Wind-Up Bird Chronicle 0
Wuthering Heights 3

[Dan]

I personally don't care whether the results are considered "professional". I thought this was a list of 100 Top Novels of All Time BY DTD members. One thing that drives me crazy is that one feels like they must like something because it is liked by a critic or another group. People are different with different opinions (many probably don't agree with what I'm saying), so why should we have a specific book on our list just because it's on a list by Time Magazine, etc.