what Dan said
what Dan said
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please second everything you would have nominated yourself -- Jean says that counts as preliminary votes.Originally Posted by CyberGhostface
Well, The Waste Lands is a great novel.is it a seconding?
What do you think about that?
I guess it's your decision, but surely you can't accept both of these:
One is part of the other.
Perplexing for the same reason to accept both
and
^ ^
Both very fine arguments.
+1s to:
A Clockwork Orange
It
Weaveworld
Nominate:
Only Forward Michael Marshall Smith
Reason for nomination: I like it.
dw
Unfortunately I haven't read anything by Cooper (I might be the only Soviet boy who hasn't...), that's why I am asking for clarification. From what I gathered, both the nominations are accomplished novels, with their only beginning, middle and ending, rather than an "ongoing story".
On the other hand, I have read both TLotR and Silmarrillion (although I could never finish the latter), and to my mind S. is by no means part of TLotR, nor the other way, nor are both parts of some third whole. We could discuss endlessly on how they are related, but TLotR is a separate novel. An author can (as Tolkien apparently did) spend all his life developing the same theme, with the same characters and landscapes, but a novel is an accomplished piece of prose, set inside a frame. And the frame is the beginning and the denouements of the "ongoing story". Prequels, sequels, additions of lore, comments, guides, margin notes - nothing matters. (do I have to add "in my opinion" every time, or can we just assume it?)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Leatherstocking Tales
--The Deerslayer
--The Last of the Mohicans
--The Pathfinder
--The Pioneers
--The Prairie
For additional clarification, you'll have to ask someone else. My opinion is, it's one story.
If you had finished The Silmarillion, you'd know that it tells the same events of the Lord of the Rings. Certainly, they are separate in a rational sense of being framed and published differently, but I was under the impression that such rational points were immaterial before the matter of "coherent story." Still seems like arbitrary selective enforcement to my mind. One minute, one rule for one series, the next minute, that rule does not apply on some other series.
Mike, I totally fail to understand you this time. I've been trying to be as consistent as I can. I have always thought that TLotR and Silmarillion were two separate works of fiction (for lack of a better word), though written on much the same topic. It is possible to write separate novels, stories, poems and series about the same.
If there's anything approximating consensus that TLotR and Silmarillion are parts of each other or of somehting else, I'll amend the list accordingly.
On the other hand, it's very easy to criticize any approach. I can do it myself. Unless I missed something (which is possible; then I apologize and ask for a link) you haven't given your definition of a novel yet. I have, and am trying to keep to it. If you give yours, it will be easier for me to understand what you mean.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you read The Silmarillion you may notice that a lot of characters and places were rehashed in LoTR
yes, and doesn't it mean that they are not supposed to be parts of the same whole?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A novel tells a cohesive story beginning to end. Therefore, since the dark tower, if read straight through, tells a cohesive. Whereas Harry Potter, to my knowledge, continues characters and mythology, but does separate individual installment plots from arching plot, and the dark tower does not. The Brothers Karamazov, at the time, was released in four installments, does that make it not a novel but a series?
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I second Slaughterhouse-Five and Pride and Prejudice.
Nominating Ivanhoe by Sir Walter Scott. (Another must-read for Soviet kids - isn't it, Jean?)
If you are going through hell - keep going
yes!!! seconded
I would nominate Sabatini's Captain Blood, which is totally my favorite novel, but I am afraid nobody except us Soviet kids has read it...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I nominate The Hobbit.
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
Who knows, we are a diverse crowd here, with quite a few voracious readers. So anything is possible.
If you do nominate Captain Blood, count my vote.
If you are going through hell - keep going
Ben-Hur Lew Wallace
Second Ivanhoe
Maybe. But I think we should permit every series into this contest, so that's moot.
As if! The Dark Tower is approximately as coherent as a bag of jello! It has a beginning, middle, and end only if you put author's intentions ahead of good sense.Jean is calling Harry Potter one novel anyway, though. Well, hey, why not? If you're going to base the distinction on form alone, then you could as easily slice up books which are divided into chapters and make those run against novels written with no chapter breaks. If you happen to have the personal impression that certain chapters are "complete and cohesive stories," that is.
Man, this thread is sliding downhill faster than an Olympic Luge!!! LOL LOL
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
The notes in my Karamazov expressed Coopers popularity in Russia, which surprised me. I've Mohicans but haven't read it yet.
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Oh, we'll work it out. Not as serious as it appears, really. The debate on policy is pretty minor, it just keeps getting tangled with deep discussion of theory. As soon as we quit trying to reach agreement upon the latter, it will be easy to reach an agreement upon the former.
Just a suggestion, but since it's "Jean'" baby maybe we should just let him be the final word and move on? Then if he chooses to amend the first post rules, we note it and go from there? Seems to me there is a lot of work in front of us and I'm sure we all want to make this right. Prolonging the debate only slows the nomination process (IMHO) and I agree we should have close to 200 nominations before we start voting.Oh, we'll work it out. Not as serious as it appears, really. The debate on policy is pretty minor, it just keeps getting tangled with deep discussion of theory. As soon as we quit trying to reach agreement upon the latter, it will be easy to reach an agreement upon the former.
Still no love for "The Godfather"? The ultimate "Mob" tome?
I'll nominate, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Robert Louis Stevenson
Spoiler:
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
Excellent choice, Merlin! (And I still need to finish the Godfather, although I've certainly loved everything I've read so far!)
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
Finally, an offer I can't refuse!! LOL Thanks for the support!!!Excellent choice, Merlin! (And I still need to finish the Godfather, although I've certainly loved everything I've read so far!)
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
I'll nominate, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Robert Louis Stevenson
The Strange Case of Dr Jeklyll and Mr Hyde
R.V.STEVENSON?
Don't we already have The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on the list of nominations? I remember seconding it a while earlier.
If you are going through hell - keep going
When your right..... Your right. OUR BAD Just add two more votes for the GOOD Doctor.
guys, please don't forget to second!!!! in this round, it means voting!!!!!!!!!!
James, I mean you. Yes, you.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm trying to be constructive. I'm sorry if it came across otherwise.
I still feel that what will slow the nomination process and put more work in front of us is unnecessarily dividing some series.
And it's basically unfair if chosen series only get to break the "three per author" rule.
I agree. It's the other way around: the trilogy is part of the Silmarillion.
But never mind, if such tangential discussions just waste time.
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