View Poll Results: Are Eddie and Jake the same people?

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  • Yes, they are absolutely the same people.

    23 33.82%
  • No, they aren't. Their bodies (genes) and names are the same but no more.

    32 47.06%
  • It doesn't make any difference.. so what?

    3 4.41%
  • I can't vote because...

    10 14.71%
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Thread: Are they the same at all???

  1. #26
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Hmm...I guess I don't think of these twin or twinner yous or mes as such. Consider the possibility that they share the same soul or essence (for those nonreligiously inclined). This is more what I have in mind than genetic potentials. Circumstance and choice determines how much that you is like you.
    This is how I see it. Brice put it very well. And some don't have any twins.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  2. #27
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Hmm...I guess I don't think of these twin or twinner yous or mes as such. Consider the possibility that they share the same soul or essence (for those nonreligiously inclined). This is more what I have in mind than genetic potentials. Circumstance and choice determines how much that you is like you.
    It's a nice thought. I don't personally buy into the concept, but if you did believe there was an "essence" to living beings than yes, it is possible that this essence could be spread among the multiverse in different facets.

    Well, in real life I'm a bit more of a skeptic or unbeliever, but fiction is all about suspension of disbelief.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  3. #28
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    [quote=All_Hail_The_Crimson_King;85861]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Hmm...I guess I don't think of these twin or twinner yous or mes as such. Consider the possibility that they share the same soul or essence (for those nonreligiously inclined). This is more what I have in mind than genetic potentials. Circumstance and choice determines how much that you is like you.
    This is how I see it. Brice put it very well. And some don't have any twins.[/QUOTE/]Yes, usually it seems the more powerful "souls".
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  4. #29
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post

    Well, in real life I'm a bit more of a skeptic or unbeliever, but fiction is all about suspension of disbelief.
    Agreed, and I can see where yours is a viable answer to the metaphysical question of "who" these similar folken are on different levels of the Tower. I still prefer to think of all of them as unique entities, but since King never says specifically one way or another, yours makes an interesting alternative theory.

  5. #30
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I think the are both, unique and the same.

    But the same in almost every way that matters.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  6. #31
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I think the are both, unique and the same.

    But the same in almost every way that matters.
    That's where we disagree. I think the ways that matter are determined by experience. They have not had the same experiences and thus are fundamentally different, to me.

  7. #32
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I think the are both, unique and the same.

    But the same in almost every way that matters.
    That's where we disagree. I think the ways that matter are determined by experience. They have not had the same experiences and thus are fundamentally different, to me.
    Ah, this is precisely why I spoke of potential to be the same or similar.


    If King thinks otherwise he is wrong.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  8. #33
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Yep, and I can see that. I totally understand what you mean too.

    Obviously a Dora that did not grow up an only child, did not have a father who drove trucks for a living who died young in her arms, did not have an overbearing Mother who told her she was ugly...she would have been a different person.

    Loving that person would take work, her loving me may not be possible. But I believe we were meant to be on all levels of the Tower, one way or another.

    Susannah may have felt that way about Eddie, and it could be the Tower wanted that too.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  9. #34
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Hmm...I guess I don't think of these twin or twinner yous or mes as such. Consider the possibility that they share the same soul or essence (for those nonreligiously inclined). This is more what I have in mind than genetic potentials. Circumstance and choice determines how much that you is like you.
    It's a nice thought. I don't personally buy into the concept, but if you did believe there was an "essence" to living beings than yes, it is possible that this essence could be spread among the multiverse in different facets.
    that's precisely what I think happened. It definitely was the same Eddie, Henry or no Henry - and the same Jake. My certainty takes roots in my being religious, of course, and this "substance" for me is soul (as Brice mentioned in another post, too).

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #35
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    that's precisely what I think happened. It definitely was the same Eddie, Henry or no Henry - and the same Jake. My certainty takes roots in my being religious, of course, and this "substance" for me is soul (as Brice mentioned in another post, too).
    Just my own thoughts, but doesn't that kind of cheapen it? It seems to make the individual lives led by the individual Eddie's somewhat meaningless if they are all just extensions of one "essence." No trouble that Susannah lost her Eddie, she can just go to another level of the Tower and get a new one. Again, just my thoughts, but I think it takes away from the uniqueness of the individual.

  11. #36
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Now you do sound like a ka-guy, Jean.

    Usually I see your points guys but now... it's too away from me.
    How could they be the same?
    We are not Gods we are what life or fate or I don't know what shaped us to be. Of course genes are important too but that's just a slice from the big cake.
    Sometimes it's just luck that saves us from jail or nervous breakdown or from the madhouse. Because life is hard (even if it's beautiful) and there are strong ones and weak ones and there is luck... if you meet the right person (like me) your life can be saved from one day to the other.
    With good help (not just shitty advice) from the right person people can reborn and without help they can become the shadows of themselves.

    How can they be the same?

    Roland would have understood.

  12. #37
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I think it all boils down to how you feel about "soul" Letti. I believe part of what people are is more than their experiences.

    That would be the same imo
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  13. #38
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Okay.
    So we just live and the soul we have and ka do everything? Or how does it work?
    If I am the same everywhere it doesn't matter or make any difference if I am an alcoholic or if I am a nun... what's life about?

    Roland would have understood.

  14. #39
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    That's up to the individual Letti. My life is about me regardless of all of that.

    Its just my screwed up belief system, I suspect I am the only one that subscribes to it.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  15. #40
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    In general terms I'd agree completely with RofG. But in this instance I think I'd be inclined to say it is the same Eddie and Jake.

    I think that because of Jake's previous deaths and how they affected him. He was on the verge of madness because he'd become divided and the new Eddie and Jake appear to have been suffering in the same way. Eddie has been hearing voices, and both he and Jake have been dreaming of Suze for months (which presumably concurs with their deaths.)

    Suze's memories start fading as soon as she enters this world, and something about the way the chapter is written, implied to me that the same thing had happened to Jake and Eddie.

    For the record, I always imagined that Roland, Eddie, Jake and Suze were without twinners in any of the other worlds.

  16. #41
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Interesting R of G- everything. I'm going to think it over some more before I comment on the nature of the soul and such. Very good.

  17. #42
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    For the record, I always imagined that Roland, Eddie, Jake and Suze were without twinners in any of the other worlds.[/QUOTE]

    Me too Darkthoughts. That totally threw me for some reason the first time I read it.

  18. #43
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    In general terms I'd agree completely with RofG. But in this instance I think I'd be inclined to say it is the same Eddie and Jake.
    I actually do tend to think they are the same Eddie & Jake and that they have not lived their entire lives to date on that level of the Tower, they may just think they have. That was the reason I started the "Why Different for Susannah?" thread because I feel that she was given the same "reward" for her service to the Tower that Eddie & Jake were despite, imo, not givng the same level of service. My thoughts in this thread have mostly been accepting the hypothetical that they are different and exploring the ramifications, but for the record, I believe that it is the same Eddie & Jake.

  19. #44
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Okay.
    So we just live and the soul we have and ka do everything? Or how does it work?
    If I am the same everywhere it doesn't matter or make any difference if I am an alcoholic or if I am a nun... what's life about?
    Searching (whether through science or faith) maybe? Exploring the great big world and trying to be a better you? Who knows? Nobody! Whatever the truth is I doubt we'll ever really know. Does it matter how you are? Of course it does...at least subjectively...and to those around you...which manifests itself subjectively on you. If there's a god or not you don't behave any differently I don't think. Your reward (possibly your only one) is how you are defines who you are. Is experience a factor? Of course it is, but say another you in some alternate universe had some infinitesmal piece of who you started out as...if they had similar experiences might they not be similar to you? Not the same, just similar. Would they actually be you? No, but they might just be close enough for someone who missed and longed for you. Maybe, that's why Susannah chose to go after this Jake and Eddie. Or maybe they were the same. I don't know.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  20. #45
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Your reward (possibly your only one) is how you are defines who you are.
    Very well said Brice. As a bit of an obsessive Joseph Campbell devotee, I believe that the only "eternity" we get is now.

  21. #46
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Very well said Brice. As a bit of an obsessive Joseph Campbell devotee, I believe that the only "eternity" we get is now.
    ZN
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  22. #47
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Your reward (possibly your only one) is how you are defines who you are.
    Very well said Brice. As a bit of an obsessive Joseph Campbell devotee, I believe that the only "eternity" we get is now.
    Ah, but with every now comes a new eternity, no?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  23. #48
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Ah, I figured my Dark Tower reference was too obscure
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  24. #49
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Ah, I figured my Dark Tower reference was too obscure
    It looks vaguely familiar, but is beyond me at the moment.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I値l be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  25. #50
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    ZN was the symbol on the 'Riza that Mrs. Eisenhardt showed Roland. It means "Eternity, Then and Now".
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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