View Poll Results: Are Eddie and Jake the same people?

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  • Yes, they are absolutely the same people.

    23 33.82%
  • No, they aren't. Their bodies (genes) and names are the same but no more.

    32 47.06%
  • It doesn't make any difference.. so what?

    3 4.41%
  • I can't vote because...

    10 14.71%
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Thread: Are they the same at all???

  1. #1
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Default Are they the same at all???

    For me that two people, new Eddie and Jake were not the men I loved and respected so much. As Susannah was standing there watching them as they were brothers smiling and stuff... they had such a different history I felt that those two people were just two strangers with the same first names and bodies but no more.
    Am I alone with it?

    Eddie became that amazing gunslinger we knew because of the things that happened to him. Henry and the drugs (an of course lot's of other things) helped him to become the man we loved. I can accept that Eddie is a great guy everywhere but that Eddie was still a total stranger to me.
    So was Jake.

    Roland would have understood.

  2. #2
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    it's a very interesting question of identity. The auxiliary question is whether you at 22 are the same being as you at 15.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    I think it actually is a good question, especially in light of Jean's belief that Susannah cried off the Tower for love. If that was not the same Eddie, than did she really do it for love? Is a "close enough" Eddie really something worthy of renouncing the Tower [and throwing a gun of the Eld into a garbage can]?

    As to the actual question, I have wrestled with that one for awhile. Doesn't it say something somewhere in those sequences that Susannah eventually expected some kind of Oy to show up there? If he did, it makes me suspect these are the same people/creature. It's one of the ambiguities of the ending that I enjoy because it lends itself to discussion.

  4. #4
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Why would Oy's appearance make any difference?

    Roland would have understood.

  5. #5
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Why would Oy's appearance make any difference?
    Because if they suddenly meet "Oy" after his death, it would seem as if that was THE Oy, not just another Oy. If he was "just another" Oy then I suspect that the "just another" Jake would already have found him. Still, there's nothing definitive either way, though I think the implications of Susannah crying off the Tower for a different Eddie are great.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Well, we know that there are multiple versions of folk throughout the worlds and the Eddie and Jake that Susannah aren't the exact same folk as the Eddie and Jake she knew and loved, no, but they're close enough.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  7. #7
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Well, we know that there are multiple versions of folk throughout the worlds and the Eddie and Jake that Susannah aren't the exact same folk as the Eddie and Jake she knew and loved, no, but they're close enough.
    So if that's true, and it is possible that is, is Jean correct that Susannah cried off the Tower for love? Is it that she felt she could fall in love with the new Eddie? I'm not buying that she did love the new Eddie already. If this wasn't Eddie of the ka-tet of the 19, than Susannah didn't love him. If it's not the same Eddie, I resent Susannah's decision more than I already did. I like this question Letti as it lends itself to the greater question of Susannah's choice. I think the answer to this question is crucial to how you approach the second one.

  8. #8
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    If we're talking DNA--they are exactly the same people. Just different levels of the Tower.

    If we are talking environment, totally different.

    For me, I will compare it to my love for Dora. If she had been killed and I saw a doorway that would lead to a version of her, I would take it. Hands down.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  9. #9
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    If we're talking DNA--they are exactly the same people. Just different levels of the Tower.

    If we are talking environment, totally different.

    For me, I will compare it to my love for Dora. If she had been killed and I saw a doorway that would lead to a version of her, I would take it. Hands down.
    Even if she was totally different but the DNA was the same?

    Roland would have understood.

  10. #10
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Yep, I would jump at it.

    Remember the Tower was saved at this point, all that was left was to go there and see it.

    I would have gone with door #2
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  11. #11
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    If we're talking DNA--they are exactly the same people. Just different levels of the Tower.

    If we are talking environment, totally different.

    For me, I will compare it to my love for Dora. If she had been killed and I saw a doorway that would lead to a version of her, I would take it. Hands down.
    Even if she was totally different but the DNA was the same?
    Potential for similarity is better than nothing for some people when someone is gone, no? Isn't this why people often (subconsciously) choose someone similar or someone who reminds them of an ex?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  12. #12
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    I don't know guys.
    For example I would be totally different if I hadn't met my Moon (he changed my life so much 7 years ago). On another level of the Tower without my Moon I would be an unbearably stupid chick.
    So... if you see a Letti door don't open it.

    Roland would have understood.

  13. #13
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Different lives, different people. The door to any other version of my wife than the one I know is a door to a completely different person, no matter how similar they may seem. To me, the psyche is the person and a different version of my wife would have a different psychological make-up dependent on her own experience on her level of the Tower, and thus would not be the same person. To take the analogy further, I wouldn't renounce the Tower, the Tower that my loved one died to protect to try and go love a different version of my departed loved one. I stand by what I said, if that is a different Eddie, Susannah's choice doesn't sit right with me.

  14. #14
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Different lives, different people. The door to any other version of my wife than the one I know is a door to a completely different person, no matter how similar they may seem. To me, the psyche is the person and a different version of my wife would have a different psychological make-up dependent on her own experience on her level of the Tower, and thus would not be the same person. To take the analogy further, I wouldn't renounce the Tower, the Tower that my loved one died to protect to try and go love a different version of my departed loved one. I stand by what I said, if that is a different Eddie, Susannah's choice doesn't sit right with me.
    I couldn't agree more. I am not alone.

    Roland would have understood.

  15. #15
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    This is different than someone who looks like her, this is her. But I agree RofG, you wouldn't get the same personality at all.

    However, just cause its different doesn't mean it would be worse somehow. I am self aware enough to know there are plenty of things that have happened in my life that I could do without.

    And she saved the Tower, put her life on the line to do it.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  16. #16
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    I don't know guys.
    For example I would be totally different if I hadn't met my Moon (he changed my life so much 7 years ago). On another level of the Tower without my Moon I would be an unbearably stupid chick.
    So... if you see a Letti door don't open it.
    Ah, but doesn't this Letti have the same potential for change that the one we know and love had?
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  17. #17
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Bingo!!
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  18. #18
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    I don't know guys.
    For example I would be totally different if I hadn't met my Moon (he changed my life so much 7 years ago). On another level of the Tower without my Moon I would be an unbearably stupid chick.
    So... if you see a Letti door don't open it.
    Ah, but doesn't this Letti have the same potential for change that the one we know and love had?
    Yeah... but I know myself. I was quite hopeless. Long story.. but I think I am right about it.

    Roland would have understood.

  19. #19
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    This is different than someone who looks like her, this is her. But I agree RofG, you wouldn't get the same personality at all.

    However, just cause its different doesn't mean it would be worse somehow. I am self aware enough to know there are plenty of things that have happened in my life that I could do without.

    And she saved the Tower, put her life on the line to do it.
    I'd say they are no more similar genetically than identical twins. If my wife had a twin and then my wife died, I wouldn't think that I should then marry the twin. The inner person, the psyche, that is the "real" person, and my thoughts are that this is determined primarily by the experiences of said person. I'm not saying it would be "worse" for Susannah, this new Eddie could be a great guy. All I'm saying is, it's not Eddie.

    As far as her saving the Tower, she certainly stood true while she remained on the path, but she still walked away before she knew the job was done. If she did so to go be with a clone of Eddie to try and hold on to her memories of him, it doesn't sit right with me.

  20. #20
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I can see that

    I don't consider my alternate "me's" as twins in my mind. It is literally the same person imo but I can get where you are coming from.

    As far as the Tower goes, the job was done. Sheemie spoke in the Towers voice and said it was so
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  21. #21
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I can see that

    I don't consider my alternate "me's" as twins in my mind. It is literally the same person imo but I can get where you are coming from.

    As far as the Tower goes, the job was done. Sheemie spoke in the Towers voice and said it was so
    My point was same DNA is just about the same thing as identical twins. They look the same and have the same genetic potential, but they are unique beings.

    I thought the Beam spoke to Sheemie, not the Tower. Sheemie said the Beam was going to be ok. This removed the threat that the Tower would fall on their way to it, but didn't necessarily mean the Tower itself was beyond danger, not with the CK still present in End-World.

  22. #22
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    We can debate the nature of "alternates" all day. This will sound dumb but to me, its a lot about soul and I figure the Dora on the other side of the door is still Dora, not a twin.

    It could have been the beam speaking to Sheemie but I am sure that it said ALL IS WELL!! ALL IS WELL!! and that the rest of the beams were repairing themselves, it was over imo.

    However, that would be another great topic to debate.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  23. #23
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Hmm...I guess I don't think of these twin or twinner yous or mes as such. Consider the possibility that they share the same soul or essence (for those nonreligiously inclined). This is more what I have in mind than genetic potentials. Circumstance and choice determines how much that you is like you.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    Iíll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  24. #24
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I'm surprised Monte isn't all over this with his "twinner" obsession..
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  25. #25
    Big Coffin Hunter jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Hmm...I guess I don't think of these twin or twinner yous or mes as such. Consider the possibility that they share the same soul or essence (for those nonreligiously inclined). This is more what I have in mind than genetic potentials. Circumstance and choice determines how much that you is like you.
    It's a nice thought. I don't personally buy into the concept, but if you did believe there was an "essence" to living beings than yes, it is possible that this essence could be spread among the multiverse in different facets.

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