Buying things specifically to sell for a profit.

[tippy4]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy.

Thanks for the warning. I don't like it. If some King collectors get butthurt because I don't like it, I don't really care.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to be insulting either.

There is going to be a time when you might want to buy a book from someone here, and someone might just tell you they are not interested in doing business with you when that time comes.

No reason to burn a bridge...right?

I missed out when The Shining S/L went on sale. Meanwhile, a member here bought more than one copy, and I was able to work out a deal with him to purchase it. In the end, he made a nice profit, and I got the numbered copy I was hoping for. Everyone wins!

Except the 751st person that tried to buy one from SP.

The 751st person has no excuse....that book was on sale for the better part of day...maybe two days... and there was no reason they could not have ordered one.


This is an old argument...one that has taken place here many times. One group is going to feel one way, and another group is going to feel another.

Flippers serve a purpose. I resell things from time to time, and have had buyers thank me for offering them for sale on many occasions.

As I have said in the past, this is not food or medicine, or electrical generators....these are frivolous, mostly useless luxury items we are discussing here.....so those of you that get worked up about them should consider that and relax.

As far as all of the disappointed children who did not get a Nintendo Wii or a Tickle Me Elmo on Christmas morning, did you ever stop to think about the kids who were able to have something to eat on Christmas morning because Dad was able to flip a Wii or an Elmo?....or maybe the profits from a flip went toward another kid's college fund?

I am done with this discussion, and will not be adding to it beyond this post. It has been beaten to death, and then beaten some more.

[Frankie]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy.

Thanks for the warning. I don't like it. If some King collectors get butthurt because I don't like it, I don't really care.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to be insulting either.

Neither did mistercrowley, did you admonish him in here somewhere for it, or just the person you disagree with?

There is going to be a time when you might want to buy a book from someone here, and someone might just tell you they are not interested in doing business with you when that time comes.

That's their prerogative. I'm not going to refrain from speaking my mind out of fear someone might not sell me a book in the future.

[Frankie]

[QUOTE=Patrick;849484]

Personally, on the minuscule chance that I land a copy in the publisher's sale, I plan to keep it. However I won't pretend that someone couldn't get me to sell it at a high enough price.

To most people, intent matters. To some people, it doesn't.

[e_taylor]

Why should the producers of the materials be allow to make a profit when they sell them to PS? How about the binder? Should they? And for that matter, why is PS charging anything more than cost for these? And King? He should just give the rights to his books to PS. It would be greedy to sell them. [/sarcasm]

Seriously. The market price is the market price. If you don't like supporting "flippers" than vow to never pay above list price for a book in your collection. Less competition for books on the secondary market will actually lower prices, so thanks!

[tippy4]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy.

Thanks for the warning. I don't like it. If some King collectors get butthurt because I don't like it, I don't really care.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to be insulting either.

Neither did mistercrowley, did you admonish him in here somewhere for it, or just the person you disagree with?

There is going to be a time when you might want to buy a book from someone here, and someone might just tell you they are not interested in doing business with you when that time comes.

That's their prerogative. I'm not going to refrain from speaking my mind out of fear someone might not sell me a book in the future.

What I saw was post#133 in this thread where you called a group of people I belong to sleazy. Prior to that I had not seen mistercrowley insult anyone....and for that matter had not seen him do so after that.

Look, I know you are relatively new here, but for the most part, people here try to get along, exchange information, and buy and sell things from one another without too much feather-ruffling. As you said, it is your prerogative to speak your mind, but you may want to take it down a peg....like I said before...no sense in burning any bridges, and in your case burning them before they are fully built.

Shoot.......I've already allowed myself to get sucked back into this never-ending conversation that I said I was going to walk away from.

[killbourne]

can't teach turtles to fly.

[DoctorZaius]

Not looking for debate here, but I am one of those "flippers." Only twice have I had the luxury of flipping something for 3-4 times the price (The Stand and Salem's Lot) and I wish I could have gotten more to sell. Lately, with the increase in initial price, the profit is much smaller (a few hundred dollars). I do it to help support my collecting habit, and I do it for my kids (vacations/college). No one is going to make me feel guilty about it. I will be happy to read others comments, but I won't be sucked into the current debate here. I am happy with my reputation as it is.

[webstar1000]

Not looking for debate here, but I am one of those "flippers." Only twice have I had the luxury of flipping something for 3-4 times the price (The Stand and Salem's Lot) and I wish I could have gotten more to sell. Lately, with the increase in initial price, the profit is much smaller (a few hundred dollars). I do it to help support my collecting habit, and I do it for my kids (vacations/college). No one is going to make me feel guilty about it. I will be happy to read others comments, but I won't be sucked into the current debate here. I am happy with my reputation as it is.

I have to say Greg was fair, honest and did things "my way" to help me out on the shipping and going over he border. Yes he did make some money. I knew that he was going to when he offered to get me my matching number. I thought it was (to be true and honest) on the higher end of good deal but I gladly accepted none the less cause without him... I may never have found that number. So thanks for that Greg. My issue would never be with the Doctorzaius's or Tippy's of the world because there fair, and they help us collectors. What I was referring to are the guys who could care less (member these fellows mentioned care about he books) collecting and would grab say a book like Carrie and try and gouge the person that would want it. I see these guys on EBay and I don't buy there because of it. This is where we ALL GO to get decent prices on out passion.... Collecting King books. I am sorry for my post earlier and venting my frustrations... Cause all I may have done is cause members that SHOULD be friends to fight and if that is the case... Those "friends" should not be fighting. My beef and I am sure many of you here... Is NOT with any member here. Cheers DT buddies may ka be with you.

[Br!an]

If I buy a book from Betts he's doing a service for the seller that doesn't want to deal with selling a hundred books individually, and also doing me a service by putting me in contact with a seller that I might never have come in contact with. He's adding value.

Let's see what David says...

Back on topic here.....if buying extra copies only to be resold at a profit pisses some people off, then they must not be customers of mine at Betts Books.....when new S/Ls come out for a King book, I sometimes (depends on the publisher) get to buy up to three copies (rather than being limited to one like most of you folks) that I can resell....and PLENTY of you come to me with extra copies that I buy (you profit) and that I am able to resell (I profit too usually). So does that make my business wrong ethically? I understand it may seem so to some people and I'm cool with that.

I see no problem with reselling luxury goods for a profit.

For some it is seemingly some type of moral or ethical issue. I would be interested in the moral or ethical basis of those opposed if one exists.

[Frankie]

If I buy a book from Betts he's doing a service for the seller that doesn't want to deal with selling a hundred books individually, and also doing me a service by putting me in contact with a seller that I might never have come in contact with. He's adding value.

Let's see what David says...

If that's all David did, I probably wouldn't buy much from David.

Do you really see absolutely no difference between a bookstore and a flipper? Honestly?

[jhanic]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy.

Thanks for the warning. I don't like it. If some King collectors get butthurt because I don't like it, I don't really care.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to be insulting either.

Neither did mistercrowley, did you admonish him in here somewhere for it, or just the person you disagree with?

There is going to be a time when you might want to buy a book from someone here, and someone might just tell you they are not interested in doing business with you when that time comes.

That's their prerogative. I'm not going to refrain from speaking my mind out of fear someone might not sell me a book in the future.

What I saw was post#133 in this thread where you called a group of people I belong to sleazy. Prior to that I had not seen mistercrowley insult anyone....and for that matter had not seen him do so after that.

Look, I know you are relatively new here, but for the most part, people here try to get along, exchange information, and buy and sell things from one another without too much feather-ruffling. As you said, it is your prerogative to speak your mind, but you may want to take it down a peg....like I said before...no sense in burning any bridges, and in your case burning them before they are fully built.

Shoot.......I've already allowed myself to get sucked back into this never-ending conversation that I said I was going to walk away from.

Thanks, Tippy. this discussion could use some moderation.

John

[The Library Policeman]

I bought 3 copies of the UK S/L Doctor Sleep (limited to one per customer) and sold 2 on ebay. The profit I made on the 2 I sold basically got me the copy I kept for free. I can honestly say I felt not one shred of guilt about it. I felt pretty great about it to be honest.

[Frankie]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy.

Thanks for the warning. I don't like it. If some King collectors get butthurt because I don't like it, I don't really care.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to be insulting either.

Neither did mistercrowley, did you admonish him in here somewhere for it, or just the person you disagree with?

There is going to be a time when you might want to buy a book from someone here, and someone might just tell you they are not interested in doing business with you when that time comes.

That's their prerogative. I'm not going to refrain from speaking my mind out of fear someone might not sell me a book in the future.

What I saw was post#133 in this thread where you called a group of people I belong to sleazy. Prior to that I had not seen mistercrowley insult anyone....and for that matter had not seen him do so after that.

Telling someone they're whiny isn't insulting? And that actually was personal. It wasn't a general statement about a practice, it was a statement about me specifically.

FINE. It isn't sleazy. It's a "tad dirty", everyone happy now? Is that the acceptable nomenclature? Is there a term you'd prefer I use when describing how I feel about something, after asked? Sleazy isn't okay, but tad dirty is? What about shady? It's not like I said "scumbag pieces of shit" like the quote in the first post of this thread. IMO people are being overly sensitive about a practice solely because they engage in it and therefore don't care to hear the other side of the coin. My sleazy comment was not a personal attack against anyone, anyone that things otherwise needs to ponder the actual definition of "personal".

I honestly don't get where all the "You've insulted me and my honor has been grievously wounded" attitude comes from. Everyone here knows that a portion (a significant portion, I would say) of people find buying at list SOLELY to resell for profit immediately to be distasteful. Correct? So you know some people don't like it. Why do you think they don't like it? What do you want them to say when ASKED why they don't like it? What amount of soft peddling is required to not ruffle feathers?

Hasn't King actually limited list prices on some of his limiteds? Why do you think he does that? To give flippers room to profit?

Why didn't Nintendo jack up the price of the Wii (or replace Wii with one of the numerous other high demand items that have sold for more than retail in the last decade or so) from the get go? Seriously. Some or many of these products they had to know or at least suspect that demand was going to far outstrip supply initially, why didn't they double the price at first and then lower it when things calmed down?

[Br!an]

If I buy a book from Betts he's doing a service for the seller that doesn't want to deal with selling a hundred books individually, and also doing me a service by putting me in contact with a seller that I might never have come in contact with. He's adding value.

Let's see what David says...

If that's all David did, I probably wouldn't buy much from David.

Do you really see absolutely no difference between a bookstore and a flipper? Honestly?

If I sell an item on eBay for profit I'm a flipper. If I sell an item on eBay for profit through my store I'm not a flipper.

If I buy with the intent to resell for a profit in "Collectible Classifieds" I'm a flipper. If I buy with the intent to resell for a profit on my web site I'm not a flipper.

So no I honestly don't see a substantive difference.

I wonder what you think of Cemetery Dance selling and reselling books for a hugely inflated amount over and above current market value through their eBay auctions. Kind of sleazy?

[Frankie]

Why should the producers of the materials be allow to make a profit when they sell them to PS? How about the binder? Should they? And for that matter, why is PS charging anything more than cost for these? And King? He should just give the rights to his books to PS. It would be greedy to sell them. [/sarcasm]

Seriously. The market price is the market price. If you don't like supporting "flippers" than vow to never pay above list price for a book in your collection. Less competition for books on the secondary market will actually lower prices, so thanks!

All those people provide valuable goods and services. The "service" that a flipper provides, if you can really call it that, is precisely offset by the disservice he did to the collector that could have gotten the book at list price if it wasn't for the flipper.

See the difference?

[jhanic]

Frankie, in a spirit of just trying to help, you seem to be beating a dead horse. I think that, by now, we all understand that you don't approve of flipping a book. Okay, that's understood. But there are lots of other members here who don't agree with you. Let's just leave it at that.

John

[Frankie]

If I buy a book from Betts he's doing a service for the seller that doesn't want to deal with selling a hundred books individually, and also doing me a service by putting me in contact with a seller that I might never have come in contact with. He's adding value.

Let's see what David says...

If that's all David did, I probably wouldn't buy much from David.

Do you really see absolutely no difference between a bookstore and a flipper? Honestly?

If I sell an item on eBay for profit I'm a flipper. If I sell an item on eBay for profit through my store I'm not a flipper.

If I buy with the intent to resell for a profit in "Collectible Classifieds" I'm a flipper. If I buy with the intent to resell for a profit on my web site I'm not a flipper.

You buy at list in order to flip far above retail, you're a flipper. Whether you do it via eBay or a store is immaterial. The point is that bookstores, and Abes, and Betts provide services far beyond that. If that's ALL they did then yes, they'd just be flippers.

I wonder what you think of Cemetery Dance selling and reselling books for a hugely inflated amount over and above current market value through their eBay auctions. Kind of sleazy?

Far above market value? According to flippers that isn't possible. They were willing to pay it, so it was market value.

According to CD they found some books in their warehouse and put them on eBay for a dollar starting bid. Is that the same as what we're talking about here? It isn't to me.

[Frankie]

Frankie, in a spirit of just trying to help, you seem to be beating a dead horse. I think that, by now, we all understand that you don't approve of flipping a book. Okay, that's understood. But there are lots of other members here who don't agree with you. Let's just leave it at that.

John

And there's members that do. You can't have a debate with one person, so I'm not sure why it's me that's beating the dead horse and not everyone else. We're apparently all beating dead horses.

[DoctorZaius]

I bought 3 copies of the UK S/L Doctor Sleep (limited to one per customer) and sold 2 on ebay. The profit I made on the 2 I sold basically got me the copy I kept for free. I can honestly say I felt not one shred of guilt about it. I felt pretty great about it to be honest.

My sentiments exactly!

[Kingfan24]

I think what Frankie is saying is the following.

Those who buy 10-20 copies with intent to sell at an over inflated price because of perceived value. The practice does seem a little shady when you think that you bought item X for 10 dollars and then turned around and charged 100 dollars to bob, john, jack, and his friends. That seems like gouging. Bookstores buy in bulk and get a bulk discount. They don't buy at cost and charge more. I know this for a fact. Barnes and Nobles bought copies of the Dark Man Trade edition. They sold it for exactly what CD sold it for.

People who buy 1 or two, then sell one on eBay at auction are not flippers because they didn't set the price - the bidders did.

In my experience David has always pre-ordered for customers and sold to them at cost. This is a good practice for loyal customers. Obviously he can't sell us a s/l Cujo for 60 bucks. That isn't gouging or flipping. Time has brought the price up on the older s/l.

[Br!an]

You buy at list in order to flip far above retail, you're a flipper. Whether you do it via eBay or a store is immaterial. The point is that bookstores, and Abes, and Betts provide services far beyond that. If that's ALL they did then yes, they'd just be flippers.

So now you have really lost me. Bett's exists as on online reseller specializing in Stephen King books. Buying at or below list (or market) and reselling is what he does. I have no idea what "service" you think he provides other than that of a book reseller, albeit a very good one.

Most of the booksellers on ABE are resellers too. In fact many don't even have inventories. They order the book from their supplier when you order from them. I see no added value.

Every bookseller other than the original publisher is a reseller of some type.

I wonder what you think of Cemetery Dance selling and reselling books for a hugely inflated amount over and above current market value through their eBay auctions. Kind of sleazy?

Far above market value? According to flippers that isn't possible. They were willing to pay it, so it was market value.

According to CD they found some books in their warehouse and put them on eBay for a dollar starting bid. Is that the same as what we're talking about here? It isn't to me.

I realize that it isn't the same for you. You have made that clear. What you haven't made clear is the distinction.

[mistercrowley]

I believe what he is saying is that if I put my item up for a buck its okay

[Robert Fulman]

So if I purchase a Carrie lettered, how long do I have to wait before we determine that "time has brought the price up"? Selling one week later makes me a flipper, but how about one month later, or one year later?

Should we start a "Not a Flipper" club? We can make a rule that says that if a member wants to sell a book, they must first make it available to all other members at the original price. I think that would solve all of our problems on this issue.

[cit74]

Sorry I came late to the discussion…I just bought a few extra copies of the new Neil Gaiman book - I have a few extra and wanted to see if anyone wanted one - the mark up is not too much. much less than a king limited

[Frankie]

You buy at list in order to flip far above retail, you're a flipper. Whether you do it via eBay or a store is immaterial. The point is that bookstores, and Abes, and Betts provide services far beyond that. If that's ALL they did then yes, they'd just be flippers.

So now you have really lost me. Bett's exists as on online reseller specializing in Stephen King books. Buying at or below list (or market) and reselling is what he does. I have no idea what "service" you think he provides other than that of a book reseller, albeit a very good one.

Most of the booksellers on ABE are resellers too. In fact many don't even have inventories. They order the book from their supplier when you order from them. I see no added value.

Every bookseller other than the original publisher is a reseller of some type.

As I have already explained, Bett's provides services FAR BEYOND someone clicking "submit order" at CDs website and then taking three minutes to make an eBay ad the day after they get the book in the mail. If you disagree with that, then we can discuss it, otherwise you admit Betts is providing a valuable service, and the pure flipper really is not.

I wonder what you think of Cemetery Dance selling and reselling books for a hugely inflated amount over and above current market value through their eBay auctions. Kind of sleazy?

Far above market value? According to flippers that isn't possible. They were willing to pay it, so it was market value.

According to CD they found some books in their warehouse and put them on eBay for a dollar starting bid. Is that the same as what we're talking about here? It isn't to me.

I realize that it isn't the same for you. You have made that clear. What you haven't made clear is the distinction.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't appear that they bought the books solely to immediately flip. From what I can tell, they probably bought them to sell at list and for some reason or another, didn't. It isn't the same, in function, or intent.