Buying things specifically to sell for a profit.

[Frankie]

I don't collect S/N's never mind S/L's but i'm curious to get the reaction from the members here if a copy was bought purely to 'flip' and make a profit. There are a lot of people here who it would seem be willing to pay $1000's for this book. If it was sold for $1k - 2k (a sum easily supported short term with a credit card) and then sold for 2k - 3k, thats a pretty hefty profit. Would other members be glad of an opportunity to get hold of a copy (especially those with large wallets) or would there be anger at the profiteering?

This is in no means a statement of intent - I am just curious to know the other members feelings - chances are its going to happen.

I don't like it, whether it's iPhones or Wiis or PS3s or books.

[mistercrowley]

Don't buy it and it has no affect on you.

[webstar1000]

I don't collect S/N's never mind S/L's but i'm curious to get the reaction from the members here if a copy was bought purely to 'flip' and make a profit. There are a lot of people here who it would seem be willing to pay $1000's for this book. If it was sold for $1k - 2k (a sum easily supported short term with a credit card) and then sold for 2k - 3k, thats a pretty hefty profit. Would other members be glad of an opportunity to get hold of a copy (especially those with large wallets) or would there be anger at the profiteering?

This is in no means a statement of intent - I am just curious to know the other members feelings - chances are its going to happen.

I don't like it, whether it's iPhones or Wiis or PS3s or books.

I agree because the person that will actually cherish or use this item gets F*%@@'d out of it. I think it's a tad dirty and I have never done it. Nor will I...

[mistercrowley]

So the only people who can buy books are those that will never sell them for a profit?

[mistercrowley]

I hate to tell you this but if people didn't sell their books for a profit you or anyone else new to collecting would have zero chance of ever obtaining a past king book that you didn't own

[Frankie]

So the only people who can buy books are those that will never sell them for a profit?

There is a quite obvious difference between buying a book and later selling it for a profit, and buying a book SOLELY to IMMEDIATELY flip for a profit.

I buy books to collect, not to flip for a profit. Even if I one day sell a book for a profit, that doesn't change that. Buying a book solely to immediately/rapidly flip for a profit differs extremely both in intent and functionality.

[mistercrowley]

No really it doesn't matter what your intent is. You buy a book and later sell it for a profit and you are doing the same thing regardless. If able I would buy 3 or 4 copies of a book and keep one for myself while selling the others. The best of both worlds

[Frankie]

No really it doesn't matter what your intent is. You buy a book and later sell it for a profit and you are doing the same thing regardless.

Buying a book to collect, later deciding that you'd rather have something else or you need the money (usually months/years later), and selling it for a profit is not the same thing as buying something solely to immediately flip for a profit. If it's the same to you (since you do it) then bully for you, it isn't the same to me, I think it's sleazy.

[mistercrowley]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy. Also comes off as a bit whiny. After all if you want something at face value there is nothing stopping you from purchasing it. Your good intentions are very noble, I hear the road to hell is paved with them

[Frankie]

Be careful because you are calling quite a few king collectors sleazy.

Thanks for the warning. I don't like it. If some King collectors get butthurt because I don't like it, I don't really care.

[mistercrowley]

Thanks for worrying about my hiney.

[thegunslinger41]

No really it doesn't matter what your intent is. You buy a book and later sell it for a profit and you are doing the same thing regardless. If able I would buy 3 or 4 copies of a book and keep one for myself while selling the others. The best of both worlds

True mistercrowley, the end result is the same. However the paths traveled are in stark contrast in spirit.


G


PS I myself do a few flips from time to time...sometimes to my chagrin, a FLOP, unfortunately. Oh well. My latest series of flips and kung-fu moves netted me an awesome $1800 gaming laptop. Yay me!

[MandaBunny]

He might not even get one so who knows who will be able to flip them? I understand both sides of the issue but I prefer the non-flipping mentality. Flipping just forces someone who couldn't get in on the initial sell to pay an artificially high price for an item they want to keep. But as mistercrowley pointed out, no one is forced to buy it. If no one gives in and pays the high price then the flippers would have no incentive to flip.

[stroppygoblin]

And thus the hoped for discussion begins!

I'm personally on the fence with this particular book. I have in the past bought a book that was a bargain with the intention of selling on (normally because I already have a copy) or because it is a set of books that included one item I needed and the rest is not needed. In fact I literally just bough a 3 book set JUST for the slipcase on one of the books. It was cheaper to buy and ship the books than to buy and ship just the slipcase from CD! I have also sold books for cost or even at a small loss, just because I knew a fellow collector on here was looking for it (and others have done the same for me).

For those of you that disagree with mistercrowley, which would you prefer, 26 avid collectors of Lettered's all getting the book and it never being sold until they pass on, or a couple of people who have no intention of keeping the book and allowing you to purchase it at an inflated price?

The assumption that if the person with intent to flip didn't buy it, YOU would have been able to - is statistically NOT the case. The fact that they did (potentially) buy it increases your odds of ownership dramatically.

[webstar1000]

I hate to tell you this but if people didn't sell their books for a profit you or anyone else new to collecting would have zero chance of ever obtaining a past king book that you didn't own

You sound like your getting upset over my comment. If that is what you do then so be it. I said I do not do that... books gaining value over time is another story and should I ever sell my collection I hope that I will sell them at a profit not a loss. Someone jumping on the Carrie bandwagon to gouge someone that actually will care for and keep that book right away is another story.... but you may look at it your way I guess.

[thegunslinger41]

I will also say that there is a difference between buying a book at a bookstore...or even (for example) buying 10 THE SHINING GIFT EDITIONS from SubPress, and immediately trying to resell them for twice the purchase price, and snagging (sometimes using friends and multiple credit cards) "limit one per household" presale items...only to immediately resell them for 3-4 times purchase price.


The Gift Edition of THE SHINING didn't sell out in the blink of an eye and everyone who REALLY wanted one purchased 1, even 2. So any left over at that point (and there were LOTS) were there for the taking for anyone wanting to...hell...buy 10 of them to resell them at some point.


G

[Frankie]

And thus the hoped for discussion begins!

I'm personally on the fence with this particular book. I have in the past bought a book that was a bargain with the intention of selling on (normally because I already have a copy) or because it is a set of books that included one item I needed and the rest is not needed. In fact I literally just bough a 3 book set JUST for the slipcase on one of the books. It was cheaper to buy and ship the books than to buy and ship just the slipcase from CD! I have also sold books for cost or even at a small loss, just because I knew a fellow collector on here was looking for it (and others have done the same for me).

For those of you that disagree with mistercrowley, which would you prefer, 26 avid collectors of Lettered's all getting the book and it never being sold until they pass on, or a couple of people who have no intention of keeping the book and allowing you to purchase it at an inflated price?

Who says the former case would result in all the books going to only "avid collectors of Lettered's"? When the book goes on sale the more casual collector that might only want one Lettered as the crown jewel in his collection has as good a chance as anyone of getting the book directly from the publisher. Non avid collectors have a better chance WITHOUT flippers, because with any flipped book the avid Lettered collector is still going to end up with the book, as they're not likely to be outbid by the non-avid lettered collector.

The assumption that if the person with intent to flip didn't buy it, YOU would have been able to - statistically NOT the case. The fact that they did (potentially) buy it increases your odds dramatically.

But for at least one person, it is absolutely 100% the case. If the 26th person to hit the submit order button is a flipper and I'm the 27th person, then that is precisely what happened. If 12 through 26 were flippers, then 27 through 41 lost their book to a flipper and now will have to pay them for it or go without. Immediate flips like this are taking the book out of the hands of one collector and putting it in the hands of another collector. Of course statistically it doesn't mean that YOU will always get it, but statistically it means YOU will always have a BETTER chance at getting it (for list), however.

[mistercrowley]

See I never gouge anyone. I put the book up for sale on eBay and let people bid themselves silly. I mean part of the money I get goes into collecting books I want (Carries does nothing for me but hey The Stand does so maybe I'll put part part of the money I get into a King S/L I actually want).

[Frankie]

and snagging (sometimes using friends and multiple credit cards) "limit one per household" presale items...only to immediately resell them for 3-4 times purchase price.

Particularly disgusting, since it is actively cheating the system and intent of the publisher.

[Frankie]

No really it doesn't matter what your intent is.

Do you apply the "intent doesn't matter if the end result is the same" philosophy to life in general, or just book flipping?

If I accidentally bump into an old lady and she falls down, it's the exact same thing as if I go out of my way to trip her and knock her to the ground, since either way she ends up on the ground, and intent doesn't matter?

Also comes off as a bit whiny.

Funny, I was thinking you were getting all whiny just because you can't handle that people think your flipping is sleazy.

[mistercrowley]

Fight the good fight franky I'm going to find that old lady and hit her over the head with my Shining S/L

[Frankie]

Fight the good fight franky

I'll read that as "I realize intent is paramount, and is an inherent component in our laws and indeed our very society, but when it comes to book flipping I pretend it doesn't matter because I am personally profiting off it."

Fair?

[Kingfan24]

and snagging (sometimes using friends and multiple credit cards) "limit one per household" presale items...only to immediately resell them for 3-4 times purchase price.

Particularly disgusting, since it is actively cheating the system and intent of the publisher.

I have to say this is what made me so mad with the Joyland release. I DESPERATELY wanted a lettered edition. I had the money and submitted my order. It got canceled. I come to find out sometime later titan was contacted in regards to any extra lettered copies they may have. Someone here got lucky and got one. Now tell me, why was MY order canceled and the other person given the book? People were buying 10-20 copies (and sometimes more) of the unsigned edition and selling them for huge profits. Not to mention the signed copies. Some people ended up with 10 or more of those to. ANALECTA books comes to mind. Severe price gouges there.

While i don't begrudge anyone who did it because they had the financial means to do so, I still think its a nasty practice and one that pisses off the majority of the collecting world. It's not only in books either. Any collectible item has this issue.

[frik]

No other publisher runs a lottery for their books. They simply announce a date and time and it's then every man/woman for him/herself. No messing about required.

Lonely Road Books also held a lottery for Blockade Billy.

Are you sure? I can't remember, and I have the gift, numbered and lettered edition.
All three direct from LRB.

sk

[frik]

A lottery was also conducted for the extra (and/or unclaimed) copies of Philtrum's Eye of the Dragon. I was the lucky winner in the second drawing,

John

As was I.

sk