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Thread: A Song of Ice and Fire ******Spoilers!!!

  1. #926
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    The children are his little birds that he talks about having all the time. Children are ubiquitous and no one pays attention to them, perfect spies.
    People love frozen yogurt. I don't know what to tell you.

  2. #927
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    That's what she said.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

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    How the hell do I get some of them fancy, unobtrusive chilluns?
    People love frozen yogurt. I don't know what to tell you.

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    They're some of Varys' little birds. He has a fuckton of them. (That's the technical term.) I kind of figured Varys had to be a badass to survive the kind of childhood he had, and to manipulate the amount of people he did. I just wish we got to see more of it instead of all that mincing around pretending to be a wuss. One of the things I'm looking forward to most (on a long list) is finding out what he's been up to and what he's plotting. Because you know he's plotting.

    Honestly, I'm rereading ADWD, and Jon Snow is boring the hell out of me. I know he's going to come back from the dead (yawn) and do lots of cool things (I hope) but right now I'm kind of thinking I don't mind if he's not resurrected. If GRRM resurrects one more character I'm gonna find him and punch him in the face.
    A lady always remembers her courtesies.

  5. #930
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    I am finally reading AsoIaF (40 percent in), and have mixed feelings.

    I nearly stopped directly after the prologue, which was all I had dreaded and why I normally avoid fantasy as a genre: pompous, boring, gratuitously descriptive, cliched, with tons of tedious lore clumsily introduced. I went on because I promised to a very dear friend that I will give it an honest try – and was rewarded: in Chapter One, the kids (especially Jon Snow) and the direwolf cubs were all right; so it was readable, after all.

    I thought I would never make it through the next chapter, though. That was the epitome of what bears loathe.

    First off, these people constantly reminisce. They introduce five names a sentence, ten family relations a passage, fifteen conspiracies, old or new, a page. None of these is in any way articulate, nor is anything done to make the work of going into it more attractive. I just decided it wasn’t worth my time or effort, and started skipping the “three hundred years ago King Phlkjadfapouyuaz killed the two barons Werafuppuouophljwr and married his daughter Aqweqwewxcxc to Pouinnmewr, son of Ytuadbnbnmj” parts. Maybe I am missing something important and will regret it later; not that I care.

    Second – and far more unbearable – flaw is the way they all talk.

    Why don’t the fantasy authors ever realize that people always talk in their contemporary language? They don’t use obsolete constructions because the constructions they use are not obsolete to them. They don’t speek in free verse. They don’t allude to proverbs and tales of yore every fucking minute. They don’t use archaisms, unless they are being sarcastic.

    Even if it was a book whose action was set in medieval England, I am afraid I would object to the overuse of archaisms, both in the syntax and the vocabulary – when our ancestors spoke their language, it sounded to them just the way our modern language sounds to us, not the way it is put on a pedestal and, up there, made to walk on stilts. But here, it isn’t even English they are supposed to actually speak – so their talking this [quasi]obsolete, solemn, archaic English is only a tribute to the idiotic tradition.

    “Would that I could. This letter had other tidings. The king is riding to Winterfell to seek you out.”

    “The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him.”


    And so on, and so forth.

    The need to make it more credible, and attempts to model a viable world make fantasy authors fill their writings with quite improbable, stillborn conversations. I still can’t remember The Eyes of the Dragon without shudder; here’s a passage to illustrate what I mean:

    Outside, the wind screamed and gobbled-old wives cringed in their beds and slept poorly and told their husbands that Rhian-non, the Dark Witch of the Coos, was riding her hateful broom this night, and wicked work was afoot.

    Just imagine that every time there’s a rainbow in the sky, your wife tells you there is a pot of gold the leprechaun buried under it. And if it was in the middle of night, and she woke you up to share this piece of wisdom? How soon would it grow unsupportable, especially the word “leprechaun”? Or “Rhian-non”.

    Eddard says to his wife of at least 15 years:

    “I ought to know better than to argue with a Tully”

    Shouldn’t this have grown a little old in the years of their marriage? No normal people ever speak like this; sometimes it reads to me like clever parody, but this, too, grows tired very soon.

    My last problem is a dramatic lack of humor. I remember smiling only once or twice, and it is miles far from enough when a book is that long.

    The rest of it is good. I mean, I love some of the characters (the dwarf, of course, and the kids), and there are some brilliant situations (so far mainly connected with Jon Snow, Arya, Daenerys, and, again, the dwarf); some parts are classic, like when the crow teaches the delirious Bran to fly. Most of them are expected, predictable and already read in other books (like the opposition of the two sisters), but unlike the stilty language they are described in, such things never really get old. A tale of moral choices, growing up, honor and betrayal, etc – is definitely worth reading, even though sometimes I really really have to struggle through it.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #931
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    Well I guess it can't be for everyone. I understand some of your points but I cannot agree. I mean, of course it's archaic language. It's medieval fantasy, it's not going to be contemporary language. As to the relationships, I think they are believable, I speak that way myself to my significant other. Giving casual digs at their part of the family is half the fun, ennit?

    That being said, I'd like to thank you for at least trying. Criticism from someone who actually tried to read it I can take. I'm sorry you're not enjoying it more.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  7. #932
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    I have to agree with the constant reminiscences and hints at past events. Seriously, if I hear any more about Ashara Dayne without actually learning what happened with her I am going to slap a bitch. He's also constantly bringing up Jahaerys and "good queen Alysanne." I mean, I like that he's thought this through enough to provide a history, but it doesn't have to be every thirty pages, and there's only so much foreshadowing I can stand.

    I don't agree about the language. I think it sets the tone, and it's part of what I like about similar stories (Narnia, Eyes of the Dragon).

    “I ought to know better than to argue with a Tully”
    I have to admit, my family does talk about each other like that on occasion. I am often told, "you are definitely a (last name)." Maybe we're weird, or it's a Russian-American difference.

    However, I can definitely see some of your points. Some of the ideas are a little cliched and I'm not going to say GRRM is the best writer in the universe. He tends to belabor the point and restate the same information every time that character's chapters come up. Also, as someone on the internet pointed out, this is quite possibly the worst sentence I have ever read: "The sight of their arousal was arousing." Thank you, GRRM, for that gem. But I feel for me personally the story and characters outweigh these problems. My recommendation is to try to get to book 3, if you can. It is easily the best of the series. After that, if you're still not feeling it, I would stop. The last two decline in quality.
    A lady always remembers her courtesies.

  8. #933
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    I actually thought dance was my favorite. That said i would not have enjoyed it without first having read the other 4 in the series. There is not a single author who is free from complaint from someone. I think how you head into a book and your attitude before starting, has a large impact on your reading experience.
    That said, I cant wait for the next book

  9. #934
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    Yes, you can.











    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  10. #935
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    lol. OK, but i dont really want too

  11. #936
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    I don't want to either. The thought of pulling a Misery on GRRM pops into my mind at least weekly.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  12. #937
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    Do it!

    I mean...

    That would be very... wrong... and terrible... of you.
    A lady always remembers her courtesies.

  13. #938
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    it's only a 5 hour drive....
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  14. #939
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    Just in case one of you guys does pull a Misery, I want to put it out there that I do not condone harming GRRM. Just in case the cops come poking around in here, I don't want to be seen as an accomplice. Yes, I am this paranoid.

    Although I kind of love that we are using Misery as a verb now. Hypothetically!
    A lady always remembers her courtesies.

  15. #940
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    Hypothetically.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  16. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Blaze View Post
    Hypothetically.
    You had better not go without me!

    Annabeth and I were discussing DT the other day via text because she read two pivotal scenes in DTVII. Here's an excerpt of what was said. For the record, I love this kid.

    Me: Doesn't bode well for Tyrion and Arya.
    Abba: As much as I'm so sure Tyrion will be safe, I'm expecting GRRM to kill him off on like the last page just to me a troll.
    Me: As he's about to be crowned king of Westeros, he slips and impales himself on the Iron Throne.
    Abba: And everyone gets together and pulls a Misery on GRRM?
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  17. #942
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    "As he's about to be crowned king of Westeros, he slips and impales himself on the Iron Throne."

    “There are no men like me. There's only me”- The Kingslayer

  18. #943
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    I personally think Tyrion will die, unfortunately. I think it will be at least halfway through the last book, but I think it will happen. I hope, however, that he goes down in a blaze of glory and becomes a legend. I'm basing this on the fact that he has survived thus far, despite everyone's attempts to murder him, and all his good deeds have gone unrecognized. I'm hoping poetic justice prevails. Although GRRM is a bloody bastard...
    A lady always remembers her courtesies.

  19. #944
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    Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Tyrion is going to die, too.

    Jon is going to be resurrected and I don't think Martin is asshole enough to kill him again.

    Dany is going to be the supreme mother of the universe or w/e.
    Death comes for all us all... but you first!

    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

  20. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka-mai View Post


    I personally think Tyrion will die, unfortunately. I think it will be at least halfway through the last book, but I think it will happen. I hope, however, that he goes down in a blaze of glory and becomes a legend. I'm basing this on the fact that he has survived thus far, despite everyone's attempts to murder him, and all his good deeds have gone unrecognized. I'm hoping poetic justice prevails. Although GRRM is a bloody bastard...
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo!!!! !! Then pulling a misery would totally be JUSTIFIED. I will slap a bitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Blaze View Post
    I don't want to either. The thought of pulling a Misery on GRRM pops into my mind at least weekly.
    You know everytime someone urges him to finish he kills off another Stark, right?
    People are always talking about truth.Everybody knows what the truth is,like it was toilet paper or somethin...All there is is bull*...One layer of bullshit on top of another...what you do in life...pick the layer of bull* that you prefer...

  21. #946
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    I'm in the middle of A Storm of Swords. If I'm reading it right, Ramsay Bolton is running around the North making a mess of things, correct? In the show, it seems like he's been hanging around that dungeon (either Dreadfort or Harenhal, I don't recall).

  22. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empath of the White View Post
    I'm in the middle of A Storm of Swords. If I'm reading it right, Ramsay Bolton is running around the North making a mess of things, correct? In the show, it seems like he's been hanging around that dungeon (either Dreadfort or Harenhal, I don't recall).
    Isnt the Dreadfort in the north? Im thinking its the seat of the Boltons...
    "If you wanna fly, you got to give up the shit that weighs you down."
    ~Toni Morrison


  23. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka-mai View Post
    They're some of Varys' little birds. He has a fuckton of them. (That's the technical term.) I kind of figured Varys had to be a badass to survive the kind of childhood he had, and to manipulate the amount of people he did. I just wish we got to see more of it instead of all that mincing around pretending to be a wuss. One of the things I'm looking forward to most (on a long list) is finding out what he's been up to and what he's plotting. Because you know he's plotting.

    Honestly, I'm rereading ADWD, and Jon Snow is boring the hell out of me. I know he's going to come back from the dead (yawn) and do lots of cool things (I hope) but right now I'm kind of thinking I don't mind if he's not resurrected. If GRRM resurrects one more character I'm gonna find him and punch him in the face.
    "Walk small and carry a big stick". In this case his mind is his stick. no puns about him being a eunuch either

  24. #949
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    Don Maitz, is doing remarques in this book....

    "I had art in a George R.R. Martin's "Song of Fire and Ice" art book by Fantasy Flight Games, and someone hired me to add a remark." Don Maitz



  25. #950
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    Sooooooooooooooo

    No Winds of Winter for us in 2016...

    However, according to The Guardian, he's received an astonishing amount of support from his fanbase.

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...f-ice-and-fire
    Death comes for all us all... but you first!

    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

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