Yes
No
The author gave Mordred a good background, but that's no substitute for characterization. You can tell me and tell me that the guy I'll meet next will be one complex badass, but, even if he walks in wearing a t-shirt with COMPLEX written on it and carrying a badass birth certificate, if what he IS is is a simpleton or a two-dimensional cut-out, I'll be able understand that fact just fine, thanks very much.
Well,come on, the oracle decided toOriginally Posted by haunted.lunchbox
Spoiler:
See, what I don't understand is how Flagg survived a NUKE in the Stand, but was so easily dispatched in the books. Can anyone explain this?
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I believe Mordred is more complex than Flagg because we get to experience his thoughts and emotions, and Flagg doesn't seem to have much of this in the previous books; we are only told about parts of his past.
As for Flagg surviving the nuke, I always used to think the Devil himself came and swept Flagg from the nuke site. It states clearly in the book that he disappears before the bomb goes off. Flagg died at the hands of Mordred because unlike the nuke, Mordred was not an inanimate object Flagg could just run away from.
Ka.
if you remove flagg you remove all of flagg not just that one aliis and to do so would detract form the story on a monumentle level
leving that aside flagg as flagg gave great insite to roland and his past and link this book to meny others
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
mordor was abel to distory flagg because he was far more powerful than him a nuke is nothing compared to the might of flagg but mordor makkes flagg look weak also flagg new the bomb would go off befor it did but was given no worning with mordorKa.
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
Its Mordred. Think MORE DREAD. Also, a nuke is pretty damn powerful. You better bet if Flagg died of blood draining, then incineration of a nuke would destroy him.mordor was abel to distory flagg because he was far more powerful than him a nuke is nothing compared to the might of flagg but mordor makkes flagg look weak also flagg new the bomb would go off befor it did but was given no worning with mordorKa.
Look people, although Flagg is very entertaining and we like him as a villain, he really isn't that powerful of a character. Your all over-rating him.
flagg was proably the most powerfull thing next to the darktower before Mordred. and it hard to compet with the son of both roland and the crimzen king.
sorry about the spelling mistakes
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
i think you under estamate flagg at a stagering level the depth of his caricter is far reaching into ever world king creates
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
Flagg is not in every Stephen King book, and I stick to my guns when I say Flagg was not that powerful. He was probably at his most powerful in Eyes of the Dragon. Flagg was the great antagonist during the story. If you look at The Stand, Flagg got his power from a higher evil: The Devil, (or if you include Dark Tower mythos, the Crimson King). Flagg wasn't in control of anything in The Stand because he could only convince people to let themselves be manipulated by him, but he never had complete control of anyone. He was basically a puppet for the Crimson King in The Stand. He wasn't even allowed to remember who he was completely. Eventually his plans fell apart and he lost.
Which villain WASN'T a bumhug of some sort at the end of the series?
The Crimson King was a senile old man throwing Harry Potter weapons, and Mordred nearly died from crapping himself.
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It's basically because Flaggs defenses were taken down. I can think of only two characters of Kings that could do so and these were the Crimson King and Mordred. Even Pennywise cant do it.See, what I don't understand is how Flagg survived a NUKE in the Stand, but was so easily dispatched in the books. Can anyone explain this?
Basically, if a nuke or a magic arrow or some other beastie came at Flagg he'd either take it out (via his magic for example) or vanish into thin air. Mordred was able to prevent these options by basically being in control of Flagg. For example, Flagg cant vanish because (using the imagary of the Dogan) Mordred switched that ability off. Flagg cant regenerate his lost eyes because Mordred has switched that ability off. None of Flaggs demonic abilities are of use in that scenario.
Thats not to say Flagg isn't powerful - he blatently is from what we see him do in the stories. It's just that ka brought him face to face with something very very powerful. Mordred is a demigod remember, even old one tech coupled with innate magical defenses couldn't keep Mordred out of Flaggs head.
Very nicely written, thought-provoking and illuminating.
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And part of that was his own decisions. It's just surprising that he lived for so many centuries without developing better judgement. In the end, he assumed that his enemies could not face Black 13, and yet overestimated his own chance at managing this new monster.
im crently reading the stand so i cant speack for that, but he is no pupet from all ive read i thank flagg uses the crimsen king to aceve his one ends
Flagg is not in every Stephen King book, and I stick to my guns when I say Flagg was not that powerful. He was probably at his most powerful in Eyes of the Dragon. Flagg was the great antagonist during the story. If you look at The Stand, Flagg got his power from a higher evil: The Devil, (or if you include Dark Tower mythos, the Crimson King). Flagg wasn't in control of anything in The Stand because he could only convince people to let themselves be manipulated by him, but he never had complete control of anyone. He was basically a puppet for the Crimson King in The Stand. He wasn't even allowed to remember who he was completely. Eventually his plans fell apart and he lost.
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
on the roland vs mordead healthy i think mordead was to young and with no traning could not beat roland in a fair fight but had the potential to do beat roland but deep down he wanted to be in the ka-tet not destroy it like had he been given a chance. also i feel bad for mordeadThanks for clearing that up Puck
19eye-rosecrow-gun I can see where you're coming from there, and I'm going to elaborate on a point I made in a previous post. When I said that because we know so little of Flagg's motivation, this adds to his character and his evil, I'd like to make the suggestion that because we know so little of Mordred's potential that adds to his own character and evil. If Mordred had attacked Roland when more physically healthy, there's no knowing what he could achieve.
I've gotta say I'm really torn on this Flagg vs Mordred thing now, I like alot of what people are saying on both sides. Both are fantastic villains, and I feel pretty cheated by SK that we don't get to see more of Mordred in all honesty.
An extra point: I think what's getting confused here is Being vs Character. Mordred is a more complex being/entity than Flagg, but in terms of the techniques SK has crafted them, Flagg is more complex, purely from a technical aspect.
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
I'm intrigued. Where do you get the idea that he wanted to be a part of the ka-tet?
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mordead was never part of the tet but he wanted to be more than any thing and if you cant join them kill them and if you mean flagg he wasnt exactly a part he was the greates opisition when he died rolands quest became alot ezeyer.
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
Its true that Mordred wanted to be a part of a Ka-tet, but he knew he could never be, because part of him would always try to destroy Roland. One home was with the Prim, the other half of him was with Roland. It was unfair for him.
I just remembered something inside an issue of TDT graphic series, where it says Flagg's father was Merlin, and mother was the goddess of the moon and night, but I am not sure if I am correct. In this case, wouldn't that make Flagg a Demi-God (probably not as powerful as Mordred)?
I sense an argument over canon coming...
That really confuses this topic even further. Why should Mordred be more powerful than RF in that case? Isn't the Maerlyn of the comics more powerful than the Crimson King?
I don't remember it ever saying that Maerlyn was more powerful than CK. I have heard that Maerlyn was a good guy in some readings, but in TDT mythos it makes him out to be evil. I think Maerlyn was a man, and an evil one in this world. CK might have taken him in as an emissary had he not crawled away and disappeared.
CK is the most evil, even during his insanity at the end. Roland was able to face him because they are brothers in a way, so it wasn't hard for him. Patrick Danville confuses me.
In terms of Flagg, no CK is more powerful because he is more evil. Flagg is a man and possibly a demi-god, but not with the abilities of CK and Mordred. CK and Mordred were more or less old things of the prim that are born as inherent evil of nature. Flagg chose his path of evil. I believe Mordred chose to help the ka-tet as much as he could, but he knew he'd never be able to join them. He was far too treacherous. These are only my interpretations. Where does it say Maerlyn is more powerful? Song of Susannah, or elsewhere?
I still don't remember Mordred wanting to be part of the ka-tet... anyone have a reference to refresh my brain, or is it from the comics?
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It is mentioned in The Dark Tower (B7). It is in one of the few narratives from Mordred's perspective. He thinks of joining the Ka-Tet, but ultimately decides he hates his White father Roland. He decides The Crimson King is his 'Real' father.
From what I remember, there is a subtext going on revealing only with the slightest notion in which Mordred wants to be a part of the Ka-Tet. Try reading TDT 7 again.
I just remembered something inside an issue of TDT graphic series, where it says Flagg's father was Merlin, and mother was the goddess of the moon and night, but I am not sure if I am correct. In this case, wouldn't that make Flagg a Demi-God (probably not as powerful as Mordred)?
i thank who ever wrote that grafic novel add what wasnt thare flagg was just a boy strong in touch how tock years refining his skill to an aet form and by no maens a demi god
and in the dark tower it sugests that flagg could have been merlin
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
I still don't remember Mordred wanting to be part of the ka-tet... anyone have a reference to refresh my brain, or is it from the comics?
when he was out side the cave before the battle to save the beam he say he wanted to be part of the tet also in the forest whgale frezzing to death
"First comes the smiles, then lies. last is gunfire"
- Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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