Would King have ever finished the series without the accident? *spoilers*

[ATG]

He would have finished for sure.

[Jean]

But why does it feel rushed at all?

as you know, I love the last volumes, but

Spoiler:

the speedy introduction of Patrick Danville left me a bit bewildered. The saga lasted for seven big fat volumes, and now the character who is instrumental in destroying Crimson King himself appears at the very end, about 100 pages before he was needed?

Please understand me right, I loved the character, and I didn't mind him being introduced, just like I didn't mind Flagg's backstory in general; it's the hurried, eleventh-hourish way both were done that surprized me. Key element coming unprepared doesn't feel very King, at least not to me; nor does the underbaked backstory of a villain who has been with us for so long.

[Wuducynn]

*cough* Deus Ex-machina *end-cough*

[Jean]

no, I don't believe it was the case. I see it quite differently: not something that came to the author's rescue when he didn't know what to do, but something necessary, intrinsic to the story, something about which he perfectly knew what and why and how it was, but for some reason didn't get around to developing properly. It may have been laziness, neglect, fear of death, but not Deus ex machina.

[Wuducynn]

It fits a lot better when you read Insomnia. Its one of the many things that happen to help Roland in his quest. Also, I think it shows that Roland was wrong about Insomnia being "tricksy" or however he put it.

[Wuducynn]

It didn't have a hurried feel to me, the story itself was rushing along with the last two books. But it doesn't feel to me like he was rushing writing it.

[Letti]

I hadn't met Patrick before so maybe that's why I didn't feel that part "rushed".

[Wuducynn]

You really ought to read Insomnia Letti dearest.

[Jean]

I was expecting this Insomnia argument... but it's again mythos vs. book, like that old comics controversy. I see the Dark Tower primarily as a novel consisting of 7 volumes, and such additional bells and whistles as other books as at best secondary. (the same is true when other books are considered; primarily, each of them must have a value of its own)

[Wuducynn]

*sigh*

[Letti]

You really ought to read Insomnia Letti dearest.

I will.


Jean, 100 pages are not short at all. Yeah, it's a long series but there are books that have only 100 pages. We are not talking about 15 but 100. Hm?

[Jean]

definitely so, but let's talk percentage.

Spoiler:

Comparing to the bulk of the novel, Patrick appears immediately before he is needed.

And it's not how King normally work! He always prepares important things in advance, approaching, retreating, developing, narrowing circles around them

[Letti]

definitely so, but let's talk percentage.

Spoiler:

Comparing to the bulk of the novel, Patrick appears immediately before he is needed.

And it's not how King normally work! He always prepares important things in advance, approaching, retreating, developing, narrowing circles around them

I see your point, Jean but still it's quite okay to me. There were other characters in the book who were important and did important things but they appeared and vanished quite quickly... am I wrong?

[Jean]

I can't think of anything that would be on the same scale.

[Letti]

I can't think of anything that would be on the same scale.

But we can't think in scales all the time, can we?
But I do see your point, Jean. I wouldn't mind at all if the last book was longer.

[Jean]

I can't think of anything that would be on the same scale.

But we can't think in scales all the time, can we?
But I do see your point, Jean. I wouldn't mind at all if the last book was longer.

only now realized that it's what all my complaints (not too many, by the way) about DT7 amount to. Should have been longer! and longer! and longer.............

[jayson]

only now realized that it's what all my complaints (not too many, by the way) about DT7 amount to. Should have been longer! and longer! and longer.............

i'd have easily read much much more

[Wuducynn]

Should have been longer! and longer! and longer.............

This is a complaint I can get behind.

[TerribleT]

I think a better term than rushed is shallow. The last three books do not have the depth of the first four, IMHO.

[Woofer]

*cough* Deus Ex-machina *end-cough*

no, I don't believe it was the case. I see it quite differently: not something that came to the author's rescue when he didn't know what to do, but something necessary, intrinsic to the story, something about which he perfectly knew what and why and how it was, but for some reason didn't get around to developing properly. It may have been laziness, neglect, fear of death, but not Deus ex machina.

I really want to agree with you, Jean, but don't forget that

Spoiler:

King himself, in the form of King the Wordslinger, leaves a note to that effect for Susannah. She finds it under the first hand towel when she is cleaning up after the exploding sore scene. {I love that part. I had been waiting for something like that to happen since first mention of the sore. }

The note begins " RELAX! HERE COMES THE DEUS EX MACHNIA! "

In my copy (Grant, hardcover, 2004), the note is on page 680. I've always found Patrick's entry to feel a bit forced (insert obligatory vulgar joke here), as well as the note to explain it

Spoiler:

- especially after leaving the key for Jake and Pere.

So I think it was deus ex machina, but I also think it works, albeit awkwardly, in the established context of the saga.

[Wuducynn]

Why I did that *cough* *end-cough* was because Jean and I have had an extensive chat already about the deus ex-machina thing..

[Wuducynn]

but I also think it works, albeit awkwardly, in the established context of the saga.

I didn't seem awkward to me at all, especially what we learn in Song of Susannah about King.

[Woofer]

AHTKC wrote: Why I did that *cough* *end-cough* was because Jean and I have had an extensive chat already about the deus ex-machina thing..

Ah, I thought you were just pointing us to the note.

[Woofer]

but I also think it works, albeit awkwardly, in the established context of the saga.

I didn't seem awkward to me at all, especially what we learn in Song of Susannah about King.

This is where the rushed part comes in for me. As Jean mentioned, we only have about 100 pages before "the moment". Letti's right, that's nothing to sneeze at; however, it does seem rushed in relation to the magnitude of the role he plays in the end (IMO, of course). As the range of responses indicates, we're not all getting quite the same feel for it. And frankly, I can't say it will "feel" the same the next time I read it.

Phew! Hope that's clear. Crash time!

[Jean]

Woofer: the extended discussion of Deus ex machina AllHail is referring to took place in this thread

as far as those 100 pages are concerned, it isn't even the quantity, it's the quality - I don't mean the quality of writing, but the composition. It's all straightforward, without any intrigue,

Spoiler:

he appears right before the finish line and moves directly towards it until he crosses it.

He is merely, purely, undilutedly instrumental, and that's what Kings normally wouldn't do when the instrument in question is intended to perform a task of such magnitude.