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Thread: The Doors on the Beach--why so different?

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Default The Doors on the Beach--why so different?

    Okay, so this is a question I have had for a while.

    We see all kinds of doors throughout the series but the ones on the beach were the only ones that took you inside someone's head.

    Why were they so different. Were they outside the whole "door system" we learn about later? Just for Roland obviously but really, was that all they were?

    Magic not mechanical?
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    Life is beautiful LadyHitchhiker will become famous soon enough LadyHitchhiker will become famous soon enough LadyHitchhiker's Avatar

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    Hmmm... I do believe the doors on the beach were of Gan's magic, of the magic of the beam and thusly, without any more evidence I believe yes, they are different.

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    Guardian of the Beam Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger's Avatar

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    I think they were but there by The Crimson Kings subconsious in order to foil all his plans

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    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    I think the difference was defined by the difference in purpose. All other doors served to pass from a place to another place, and, probably, belonged to the place itself, this particular corner of space with its pecularities (maybe one universe folding onto another, or something like that); the ones on the beach were meant solely for the interaction of Roland and those who were supposed to be drawn, and belonging, I suspect, to the vector from Roland to the one to be drawn, while physical properties of worlds and their correlation in this particular corner were not important.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I think the difference was defined by the difference in purpose. All other doors served to pass from a place to another place, and, probably, belonged to the place itself, this particular corner of space with its pecularities (maybe one universe folding onto another, or something like that); the ones on the beach were meant solely for the interaction of Roland and those who were supposed to be drawn, and belonging, I suspect, to the vector from Roland to the one to be drawn, while physical properties of worlds and their correlation in this particular corner were not important.
    The man in black almost says as much when he and Roland meet in the long night. He says that Roland's ability to "draw" is a special ability.

    Matt, I love this question, it's one I've never considered.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Maybe there is a door into our own head as well.
    I mean maybe we all have a door somewhere...

    Roland would have understood.

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    Goldmember NeedfulKings has a spectacular aura about NeedfulKings has a spectacular aura about NeedfulKings has a spectacular aura about NeedfulKings's Avatar

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    Great question. It also showed King's ablitity to evolve the whole "door" idea.

    I think the way he used these particular doors unsurpassed any door we encountered through the remaining 5 books. With one possible exception:

    The Waste Lands Spoiler

    Spoiler:
    The door that Eddie made in order to draw Jake into their world was unique to all other doors in the series as well, if I remember correctly.

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Wow, that's true too. I guess it really comes down to the difference between the magic that was in Rolands world and the machines that the old ones had left around.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

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    Traveler Madagascar is on a distinguished road

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    I was wondering about the doors and
    Spoiler:
    why their bodies were left outside them, then I realized the doors on the beach took Roland into their minds, anyway.
    xD

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    Life is beautiful LadyHitchhiker will become famous soon enough LadyHitchhiker will become famous soon enough LadyHitchhiker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    I think they were but there by The Crimson Kings subconsious in order to foil all his plans

    Oooooh... now THAT is an interesting idea.

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    One who came back Malficeus is on a distinguished road Malficeus's Avatar

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    this might be random but in the Gunslinger the oracle was telling him all of the things about it

    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." -PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
    -"We have two companies of MARINES running all over this island and thousands of ARMY troops doing nothing!" -GEN. JOHN VESSEY, CHAIRMAN OF JOINT CHIEFS

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    Life is beautiful LadyHitchhiker will become famous soon enough LadyHitchhiker will become famous soon enough LadyHitchhiker's Avatar

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    Please explain more!

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    One who came back Malficeus is on a distinguished road Malficeus's Avatar

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    she gave him the same prophecy yet diffrenet then walter's:

    Three is the number of your fate.. three stands at the heart of your quest...we see in part and thus the mirror of prophecy darkened... first is young ,dark haired...demon infesten..HEROIN..

    there are other worlds gunslinger and other demons these waters are deep watch for doorways. watch for the roses and the unfound doorways

    (one i over looked)Roland:the second? she come on wheels i see no more

    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." -PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
    -"We have two companies of MARINES running all over this island and thousands of ARMY troops doing nothing!" -GEN. JOHN VESSEY, CHAIRMAN OF JOINT CHIEFS

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    So she's partly responsible for the doors? Or they are part of the building blocks of the doors?

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    One who came back Malficeus is on a distinguished road Malficeus's Avatar

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    idk how to interpret it

    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." -PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
    -"We have two companies of MARINES running all over this island and thousands of ARMY troops doing nothing!" -GEN. JOHN VESSEY, CHAIRMAN OF JOINT CHIEFS

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    Along the Path of the Beam Childe 007 is on a distinguished road Childe 007's Avatar

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    The doors on the beach are different because they represent Roland's power to "draw". Bought with the blood of sacrifice and spun by the magic of Legion. Because of Roland's nature he is able to "draw" to him his ka-tet of the past to help him reach the tower. Portals in mid-world are doors - so Roland sees them as doors. But these are "pure" doors and of the White - not the corruptions of the Old Ones or The Crimson King. These are the doors of the Eld and only Roland may access them.

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    John F. Kennedy pol is on a distinguished road pol's Avatar

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    Spoilers abound



    Its been awhile...nice to be discussing the Tower again...while its been awhile since I have read this book, it remains one of my favorite and partially due to the doors and what they mean.

    I always took these doors to be a consequence of Roland's interaction with The Man in Black...meaning had they not talked, no doors. These doors are made from the tensions created by this interaction...as Roland points out in Book III, where the discussion turns to portals (those of the Great Old Ones, and doors - the ones from the beach), in this excerpt....

    The answer is no. I don't think—I don't guess—that these portals are much like the doors on the beach. I don't guess they go to a where or when that we would recognize. I think the doors on the beach—the ones that led into the world you both came from—were like the pivot at the center of a child's teeterboard. Do you know what that is?"
    "Seesaw?" Susannah asked, and tipped her hand back and forth to demonstrate.
    "Yes!" Roland agreed, looking pleased. "Just so. On one end of this sawsee-"
    "Seesaw," Eddie said, smiling a little.
    "Yes. On one end, my ka. On the other, that of the man in black— Walter. The doors were the center, creations of the tension between two opposing destinies."

    Therefore these doors appear to be very unique, kind of a one time thing, even unique compared to the one Eddie made later in Book III, based on their nature. The best thing about these doors is that to me, if what Roland states is true, is that these doors are fundamentally dependent on his interaction with The Man in Black....which of course is dependent on the boy's death...without this the doors cannot exist and the drawing, and eventually Jake's own, cannot occur.

    Its been speculated that Roland learns as he loops...and also that perhaps in one loop the boy does not drop...but if thats the case how can he procede?

    Just some interesting thoughts, perhaps a bit redundant, but oh well. Its nice to have the Tower in my mind again.

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    Servant of Gan Brainslinger will become famous soon enough Brainslinger will become famous soon enough Brainslinger's Avatar

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    "The doors were the center, creations of the tension between two opposing destinies."

    I often wondered about that too or exactly what it means. It almost suggests that it's an unintentional thing, just the fact these two characters exists creates the tension, resulting in the doors.

    Your (Pol's) theory is interesting that it comes out of their conversation and that without the conversation the doors wouldn't exist. Not sure I'm convinced of that though since I think it's arguable the tension was already there before meeting.

    It actually makes more sense to me that the doors were explicitly created by Walter. Or if not totally created, they were influenced.

    Waste Lands spoilers-
    Spoiler:
    The events that happened through the door of the Pusher, led to a mind trap instigated by Walter.


    However if the doors are caused by tension between two characters, that would seem to negate personal intent. Then again it could be a bit of both I suppose, i.e. the tension adds to the thinness in reality, and Walter creates the doors utilizing Roland's ka.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Whitey Appleseed is on a distinguished road Whitey Appleseed's Avatar

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    I dunno...maybe it has to do with destiny, and what Roland's perception of destiny is, or should be. It's kinda interesting that he finds the doors after losing part of his hand.

    I guess the point could be made that the Red King is screwing with him, like Marten, in The Gunslinger. Go and find your hand, Roland, catalyst for calling out his teacher, Cort. Book II, he loses some fingers, not to mention part of his big toe. We could speculate all day about what might or might not have happened with Roland had he not lost effective use of his right hand, but it is intriguing, coming as it does after what happens in Book I.

    Don’t know if something can be made of it, or not, and it’s unsettling that talk about masturbating in a thread in The Gunslinger brought this about, but consider, go and find your hand, what Marten told Roland in the first book. And then we read in Dark Tower II, The Drawing of the Three, how Roland loses fingers from his right hand to one of the lobstrosities. Then we get a description of his hand, or more specifically, his palm, a dull red. Not a good sign. Yeah, you betcha, red, and we all know what that means. Not a good sign. Roland thinks, I jerk off left-handed…at least that’s something. Is that Walter, or the Red King, cackling off-stage?

    Next he goes looking for the doors. In Book I, Marten tells him to go and find his hand. Here we get the old lobstrosities-out-of-the-ocean-gag, no doubt set up by the cosmic comic. What would have happened if he said the hell with the doors? Kicked them over?
    Maybe another world below the beach sand? With the doors, maybe we have to consider who sent him to find the doors. Is this another case of Roland winning, though the doors could be as much trap as the one Marten tried to set up? If that's the case, the doors are more mystical, magical, than mechanical.

    Whose really running the show? Does Roland own his destiny? Great questions here! Boggles the mind. Great answers...I've read some from the threads ahead...can't wait...finished TDOTT last night...maybe the 4th time through. Most scientific!

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    Traveler RolandFanChuck is on a distinguished road RolandFanChuck's Avatar

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    THAT was an interesting point. Made me smile! Great point!



    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Maybe there is a door into our own head as well.
    I mean maybe we all have a door somewhere...

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    Gunslinger Apprentice Seneschal is on a distinguished road Seneschal's Avatar

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    ***DEFINITE SERIES SPOILERS INSIDE THIS WHOLE POST*****

    *BEWARE!!*

    Quote Originally Posted by pol View Post




    in this excerpt....

    The answer is no. I don't think—I don't guess—that these portals are much like the doors on the beach. I don't guess they go to a where or when that we would recognize. I think the doors on the beach—the ones that led into the world you both came from—were like the pivot at the center of a child's teeterboard. Do you know what that is?"
    "Seesaw?" Susannah asked, and tipped her hand back and forth to demonstrate.
    "Yes!" Roland agreed, looking pleased. "Just so. On one end of this sawsee-"
    "Seesaw," Eddie said, smiling a little.
    "Yes. On one end, my ka. On the other, that of the man in black— Walter. The doors were the center, creations of the tension between two opposing destinies."
    greetings all, first time posting, but i've been reading here for quite a while. since i am now re-reading the series, many of these topics are coming to the front of my mind again.

    anyway, i believe that the above excerpt posted by pol is in fact a clear definition of the doors. in this case we should be listening to Roland as the author surrogate, that is, he is directly speaking in place of the author. these doors are specific to Roland and his journey as a direct result of another man on an equal and opposite journey. This does not preclude other similar doors, but it does set the drawing doors apart from other types. Roland many times plays surrogate for King throughout the series, and I believe this to be the case here.

    Its been speculated that Roland learns as he loops...and also that perhaps in one loop the boy does not drop...but if thats the case how can he procede?
    .
    this is something i have thought a lot about, because it is the inherent problem with the learning/looping theory. this comes up in almost every story where time and interdimensional travel take place. but in the dark tower, there is a unique sidestep that is implied.

    since all the worlds spinning on all their axis' around the tower are ultimately infinite in nature, only one resultant set MUST remain true for Roland's quest to be complete: keystone world. Roland is NOT from the keystone, he is a third party hero, literally an other-worldly being who has the ability--through his quest--to save keystone from that which it does not "see". Because he has already saved keystone world once, it will ALWAYS be saved no matter what happens on subsequent loops. The continuous loops are for his salvation only. If keystone is truly the one defined important dimension/reality, once he saves it, that part of the quest is over indefinitely. This is the nature of the keystone and why it was so important to be saved. life in that reality will continue on, and his loop becomes another branch of another reality.

    take it a step forward...theoretically, the loop we saw may not truly have even been the time that he actually saved the keystone/tower.

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