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Thread: Enhancing Our Grading System

  1. #26
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    posting just to let people know that we have this new thread now

    all suggestions are very welcome

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

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  2. #27
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    Jean, you often talk about the quality of the actual writing, and I think that would make a good grading category, how well a book is written.

  3. #28
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    that was my first thought!


    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #29
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    Sort of random, but I often wonder what Mr. King would have to say if he weighed in on these type of threads. Don't you all? Not meant as an indictment or anything just general speculation. Like the kid in "Sixth Sense". "I think weird thoughts"!!!!



  5. #30
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    it would be humanly interesting, but, in my opinion, not very relevant. It's the readers who can evaluate the merits of a literary work, not the author. He has already done all he could about it.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #31
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    Thanks for putting this together. You've got my opinions here already, so I don't think I need to restate them. I just think they need to be rewritten maybe? All three are important aspects of a book. Although in my opinion I'm not entirely sure ending is as relevant as the other 2 categories. And I agree, how well it's written definitely does sound like a good thing to add.
    Only the gentle are ever really strong.

  7. #32
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    do you think that the three categories might be (roughly): story - characters - writing?

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #33
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    Personally I like that
    Only the gentle are ever really strong.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    do you think that the three categories might be (roughly): story - characters - writing?
    I like this approach also. Those aspects should be emphasized, whereas "story ending" is not really a pertinent way to measure the worth of a book.

  10. #35
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    What about collections? Categories for those also could use a little tweaking, I reckon. Different set from novels is a good idea, though. For that matter, I like the three rounds in general, and basically the whole status quo of this annual tourney. Only this that we're discussing did always bug me a bit. Nice work pulling this thread together, Jean.

  11. #36
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    The more I think about it, the more I agree that we should go with Jean's suggestion of grading The Dark Tower as one book.
    The World Is Yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

  12. #37
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by feverishparade View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I agree that we should go with Jean's suggestion of grading The Dark Tower as one book.
    I really suggest trying it next year. And the year after the next, I suggest removing TDT from the competition altogether, and see how this would influence the results.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #38
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    With tons respect due, I don't really see how voting for The Dark Tower as one book will be beneficial. They are all very different books. Some are great (The Drawing of the Three, Song of Susannah), some are very good (The Gunslinger, The Waste Lands, The Dark Tower), and some are meh (Wizard and Glass, Wolves of the Calla). In my most humblest and insignificant of opinions, of course. Plus there's The Wind Through the Keyhole for next time. Which is why there was always the disclaimer to vote on the DT books as separate entities. Leaving them off altogether is an option, but doesn't seem fair, as we're choosing The Best King Book of All Time. We can, however, maybe separate the CRAs into book categories, choosing the Best Novel, Best Collection, and Best Dark Tower Novel. And then have those winners face each other for the ultimate prize.

  14. #39
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    I consider the dark tower series to be one book. Just as I have favorite parts of any other book I have favorite parts of this one. I would no more favor splitting the main storyline (7 books) than I would favor splitting another story and voting them against each other.
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  15. #40
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    what Brice said

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #41
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    Instead of grading them as one book, hows about we grade them as one story. I think we can all agree on that technicality.
    The World Is Yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I'm just nodding my head the whole time thinking "ok, stop now, please."

  17. #42
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    I was thinking that early in 2014 we begin our sometimes annual Constant Reader Awards and I would like to restructure the bracketing and the grading system. I would love to hear suggestions. The bracketing needs changing because the number of titles keeps growing. And the grading, while, in my opinion, very good, could still use some adjustment, too.

  18. #43
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    If we leave off the eight DT novels for the upcoming awards voting, we may not need very much restructuring, just rewording of the actual vote questions (because I like the internal grading system itself). So we can still stick to 60 overall titles - we'd just need to sneak in a dubious title like The Plant or Ghost Brothers of Darkland County, both legitimate parts of King's bibliography. Thus, first round voting, like in the past, would be in twelve brackets of five titles as such:

    Bracket 1:
    • Carrie
    • 'Salem's Lot
    • The Shining
    • Rage
    • Night Shift

    Bracket 2:
    • The Stand
    • The Long Walk
    • The Dead Zone
    • Firestarter
    • Roadwork

    Bracket 3:
    • Danse Macabre
    • Cujo
    • The Running Man
    • Different Seasons
    • Christine

    Bracket 4:
    • Pet Sematary
    • Cycle of the Werewolf
    • The Talisman
    • Thinner
    • Skeleton Crew

    Bracket 5:
    • It
    • The Eyes of the Dragon
    • Misery
    • The Tommyknockers
    • Nightmares in the Sky

    Bracket 6:
    • The Dark Half
    • Four Past Midnight
    • Needful Things
    • Gerald's Game
    • Dolores Claiborne

    Bracket 7:
    • Nightmares & Dreamscapes
    • Insomnia
    • Rose Madder
    • The Green Mile
    • Desperation

    Bracket 8:
    • The Regulators
    • Bag of Bones
    • Storm of the Century
    • The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon
    • Hearts in Atlantis

    Bracket 9:
    • On Writing
    • Secret Windows
    • Dreamcatcher
    • Black House
    • Everything's Eventual

    Bracket 10:
    • From a Buick 8
    • Faithful
    • The Colorado Kid
    • Cell
    • Lisey's Story

    Bracket 11:
    • Blaze
    • Duma Key
    • Just After Sunset
    • Under the Dome
    • Blockade Billy

    Bracket 12:
    • Full Dark, No Stars
    • 11/22/1963
    • Joyland
    • Ghost Brothers of Darkland County
    • Doctor Sleep

    Now, the question is, should the top two books in each bracket (winner and runner-up) automatically move on, as before, with the remaining highest-scoring books being the wildcards that fill out the Top 30 which moves on to the second round, or should it be a straight 1 through 30 ranking? Each method has its advantages. Straight ranking is arguably fairer, but the top-two system provides more balance.

  19. #44
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    My personal choice would be a straight 1-30 ranking. It's definitely fairer. What if King has a bad era, and those books move on when there's without a doubt better works by him? I think it usually turned out that they would make it on anyways, but this would guarantee it.

    Also can you refresh my memory on the initial voting phase. Do we rank them based on the brackets they're in or is it stand alone voting for each book?
    Only the gentle are ever really strong.

  20. #45
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heather19 View Post
    My personal choice would be a straight 1-30 ranking. It's definitely fairer. What if King has a bad era, and those books move on when there's without a doubt better works by him? I think it usually turned out that they would make it on anyways, but this would guarantee it.
    bears agree

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    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heather19 View Post
    My personal choice would be a straight 1-30 ranking. It's definitely fairer. What if King has a bad era, and those books move on when there's without a doubt better works by him? I think it usually turned out that they would make it on anyways, but this would guarantee it.

    Also can you refresh my memory on the initial voting phase. Do we rank them based on the brackets they're in or is it stand alone voting for each book?
    Since it looks like the Dark Tower novels will indeed participate in the upcoming Constant Reader Awards as eight separate entries, the above bracket list will have to be restructured. I'd like more feedback on the methodology: the 1 through 30 option, or the top-two in each bracket plus the wildcards as before. To remind, everyone, the first round of the process involves rating each book on its own merits and then at the end of Round 1 the top 30 books move on to Round 2.

  22. #47
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    The brackets then would look like this:

    Bracket 1:
    • Carrie
    • 'Salem's Lot
    • The Shining
    • Rage
    • Night Shift

    Bracket 2:
    • The Stand
    • The Long Walk
    • The Dead Zone
    • Firestarter
    • Roadwork

    Bracket 3:
    • Danse Macabre
    • Cujo
    • The Running Man
    • The Dark Tower: The Gunslinger
    • Different Seasons

    Bracket 4:
    • Christine
    • Pet Sematary
    • Cycle of the Werewolf
    • The Talisman
    • Thinner

    Bracket 5:
    • Skeleton Crew
    • It
    • The Eyes of the Dragon
    • The Dark Tower II: The Drawing of the Three
    • Misery

    Bracket 6:
    • The Tommyknockers
    • The Dark Half
    • Four Past Midnight
    • The Dark Tower III: The Waste Lands
    • Needful Things

    Bracket 7:
    • Gerald's Game
    • Dolores Claiborne
    • Nightmares & Dreamscapes
    • Insomnia
    • Rose Madder

    Bracket 8:
    • The Green Mile
    • Desperation
    • The Regulators
    • The Dark Tower IV: Wizard and Glass
    • Bag of Bones

    Bracket 9:
    • Storm of the Century
    • The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon
    • Hearts in Atlantis
    • On Writing
    • Dreamcatcher

    Bracket 10:
    • Black House
    • Everything's Eventual
    • From a Buick 8
    • The Dark Tower V: Wolves of the Calla
    • The Dark Tower VI: Song of Susannah

    Bracket 11:
    • The Dark Tower VII: The Dark Tower
    • Faithful
    • The Colorado Kid
    • Cell
    • Lisey's Story

    Bracket 12:
    • Blaze
    • Duma Key
    • Just After Sunset
    • Under the Dome
    • Blockade Billy

    Bracket 13:
    • Full Dark, No Stars
    • 11/22/1963
    • The Dark Tower: The Wind Through the Keyhole
    • Joyland
    • Doctor Sleep

    Yes, 13 brackets now. Meaning if we're going the wildcard route, the top two in each bracket will be moving on, as well as the remaining top four.

  23. #48
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    I'm not going to enjoy this game.
    Choosing only 2from some of those early groups is like choosing which 2 of your 5 children you love most
    "A real limited edition, far from being an expensive autograph stapled to a novel, is a treasure. And like all treasures do, it transforms the responsible owner into a caretaker, and being a caretaker of something as fragile and easily destroyed as ideas and images is not a bad thing but a good one...and so is the re-evaluation of what books are and what they do that necessarily follows." - Stephen King

  24. #49
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    I suggest grouping them differently. This way, I am afraid everyone will agree, we make the classic compete with the mediocre instead of weeding out the mediocre at early stages

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #50
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    Well the books in the First Round aren't competing against one another. They are all graded on their own merits. So we can go with a straight 1 through 30 ranking. I'm fine with either way. The way we did it before, the top two books in each bracket moved on and the rest of the Top 30 was filled out by the wildcards, those that ranked highest among the books which weren't top two in their brackets. So that provided balance.

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