What would have happened if... ?

[Bev Vincent]

The Crimson King seems to think that he needs to stop King from writing Roland's story, though.

[pathoftheturtle]

I think it's the reading, not the writing. All actions are connected in the course of many universes. So it's like, they keep existing, but no matter what they do to the CK, it doesn't change the future of our world as long as not enough people hear about it: for whatever reason, that would allow some alternate course of events or other that eventually lets the CK win anyway... and if the Tower falls in the future, then the past doesn't exist.

[pathoftheturtle]

Or I could be wrong. Was that not what you wanted for this topic?

A key and still not totally clear question, IMHO, Mrs. Tassenbaum's -- How is it Stephen King gets to decide the fate of existence, anyway? lol

And another thing still confuses me: she asks that question while taking Roland from Stephen King's neighborhood to Moses Carver's neighborhood, in DT7, to an office where Carver mentions Odetta; we see that Odetta lived in the world which King lived in. In DT2, we see that the young Odetta lived in the world which Jack Mort lived in, and that later, Jake Chambers also lived in the world which Mort lived in. Then in DT3, we see that Jake lived in the world which the young Eddie Dean lived in. But in DT6, we see that Eddie did not live in the world which King lived in. So is the Jake in DT6 a different Jake? And if he is, where's he going when he leaves the bookstore? Is there a different Eddie for him to follow? Or what?

[beam*seeker]

Or I could be wrong. Was that not what you wanted for this topic?

A key and still not totally clear question, IMHO, Mrs. Tassenbaum's -- How is it Stephen King gets to decide the fate of existence, anyway? lol

And another thing still confuses me: she asks that question while taking Roland from Stephen King's neighborhood to Moses Carver's neighborhood, in DT7, to an office where Carver mentions Odetta; we see that Odetta lived in the world which King lived in. In DT2, we see that the young Odetta lived in the world which Jack Mort lived in, and that later, Jake Chambers also lived in the world which Mort lived in. Then in DT3, we see that Jake lived in the world which the young Eddie Dean lived in. But in DT6, we see that Eddie did not live in the world which King lived in. So is the Jake in DT6 a different Jake? And if he is, where's he going when he leaves the bookstore? Is there a different Eddie for him to follow? Or what?

Damn it, this is making my brain hurt.

[Darkthoughts]

I've merged these threads to create a general "what if" thread

[rouchken]

First off: hello people. I'm currently in my 10th reread of the series (just can't get enough of it) and even now new ideas come to mind.

I'm currently at the point where I consider the death of Jake as an indicator to the real turning point.
After all, Ka is a wheel, is it not ?
And it is not the first time that Roland lets his son die, is it not ?

So in short: for me WaG is the pivotal book and the death of Susan (and the moment where Roland says he chooses the Tower over Susan) is the keymoment. I believe that from that moment forth, Roland is damned. After all: sacrifying your love & unborn child for the tower (even if Roland did not suspect Susan to die) kinda makes you a son of a *
Killing your 2nd son makes it worse, that's true. But not killing him does not make up for the death of the other 2.

Choosing Jake over the tower would however indicate his attempt for redemption (and partially admitting his obsession with the tower is wrong) and I believe that this would impact the night in which the story of Susan is told.
That night is a magical night (there are multiple indicators for this) and even the past can change in Rolands world.

So what if the saving of Jake (and the events that follow) would lead to Roland realizing that sacrifying Susan was wrong and that this would lead to Rolands past being altered ?
After all, maybe it is not Rolands task to reach the tower, but the task of Rolands son ? (as Mordred also attempted)

Of course, this would cause some paradoxes: if Roland does not choose the tower, but saves Susan, then DT1-7 would never happen, meaning the story of Susan would never be retold in that magical night etc etc...

But nevertheless: for me the choice Tower-Susan is the turning point.
* After that choice, everything went wrong: Susan was killed, Roland killed his mother, he lost his first ka-tet @Jericho hill, ...
* the book is literally in the middle of the series: 3 books before, 3 after.
* the story itself serves little to no purpose in advancing the plotline. It's a great story, with great characters, but does it help the ka-tet reach the tower ? Not explicitly in my opinion, so there has to be another purpose for this story. Why is this story more important than Jericho hill, the fall of Gilead or the hundred other adventures Roland has encountered during his life? Again: turning point imho.

[Xile]

Self-note: Stay away from this thread at 6:19am before first cup of joe.

[Brice]

Conversely you could start the coffee pot earlier.

[Xile]

haha Brice. Really man? Really?

[Brice]

[Drifter13]

wow this is my first visit to this site and i must say i dig it. in response to the what if question: if jake never fell then he would have never had to go through the house on dutch hill and bring his charlie the choo choo book and his dads ruger. and he would have never met calvin tower. the implications of this are pretty heavy i think? thats why i love the dark tower series, it can go any which way u want it to