Vai is great. I borrowed a recent album he made from the BPL a few months ago and loved it.
Vai is great. I borrowed a recent album he made from the BPL a few months ago and loved it.
Former Kingsmen Singer Says Music Industry is Backwards
Very interesting op-ed piece from Jack Ely, lead singer of The Kingsmen (yes, The Kingsmen as in the band that did "Louie, Louie").
I couldn't agree with him more, especially this part...
Full article:"The suggestions that recordings are produced today just to sell recorded music is all backwards and the sooner the record companies and producers and artists figure this out the sooner they will all quit sniveling over the fact that the entire world is freely sharing their music digitally and isn't willing to stop; and in fact will do anything to circumvent their efforts to get paid for the recordings alone."
http://counterpunch.com/ely12102008.html
A Message to the Music Industry from the Lead Singer of the Kingsmen
Stop Sobbing About Free Music Downloads
By JACK ELY
My name is Jack Ely and I'm the one whose voice is heard daily on The Kingsmen's 1963 recording of Louie Louie, (may it rest in peace) so you know I have some music business experience.
First I'd like to express an opinion that probably will not be very popular but which oozes with truth. In the early '60's when I was recording, records were thought of as a tool to help promote live performances. The live performances were the main revenue stream and the records were just promotional tools to get people to come see the shows. Somewhere this mode of thinking got turned upside down. Consequently in years hence, record companies, producers, et. all, have made recordings, hoping to profit from the sale of those recordings alone, regardless of whether or not the artist could ever pull it off live. This did some things to the music business that weren't very healthy. First it made available to the general public, music of artists who may or may not be good live performers; almost anyone can make a good recording with enough cut-ins and loops. And... it made music by groups of players who never ever intended to perform that music live, and who may or may not have ever been able to get along with each other long enough to really sustain any kind of a road show.
Music is meant to be played for the enjoyment of the audiences. For instance, if I go into the studio with an acoustic guitar and simultaneously play and sing on a recording, people would come to see me perform in that same mode; I.e. playing guitar and singing as a solo act. I don't think they would come to see me expecting a full band. Conversely, if I advertised a 'Night with Louie Louie" people would come expecting to see a rock band that they could dance to, and would be quite disappointed if I showed up with just my acoustic guitar.
The suggestions that recordings are produced today just to sell recorded music is all backwards and the sooner the record companies and producers and artists figure this out the sooner they will all quit sniveling over the fact that the entire world is freely sharing their music digitally and isn't willing to stop; and in fact will do anything to circumvent their efforts to get paid for the recordings alone.
The days of producers and musicians putting bands together just to get a recording deal so they can get paid by the record company for a product that usually never even gets released; those days are over. It's time record companies went back to their roots and became what they started out to be; entities who record working acts in order to
1) capture the performance for posterity, and
2) make a promotional tool to get audiences to the next show.
The solution is to give the world all the free music it wants, but to give the recording entity, whether it be a record company or a producer, or whomever, a cut of every live performance. That will do at least two things and maybe more that I haven't even thought about yet. First it will give everyone involved in the recordings a source of revenue (pay day) for all their hard work of producing and promoting the recordings. Second, it will weed out all the so-called "recording artists" who couldn't, in a live venue, perform their way out of a paper bag. In a down economy the public craves live entertainment, so what better time to get back to basics. The timing couldn't be better for a profitable turn around. So now is the time to get it going.
I send you these thoughts in hopes that just maybe a new/old perspective on the subject of recorded music can be presented to the entire recording world and they can all start making a real profit.
-------
Jack Ely, the former lead singer of The Kingsmen, is a veteran horse trainer. He lives in central Oregon.
I agree Jayson. There are so many people that have released albums that can honestly not even sing or perform live. It's just purely to make money, and that drives me crazy.
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
Great article. It ranks up there with Albini's article about how the major labels ream you before you even start recording. Today there are tools to make sure you can never perform songs live. Antares Auto-Tune, the promulgation of samples and sequencers, the reliance on punch-ins and overdubs, and on-board effects alone make it damn near impossible to replicate studio recordings. That's part of the reason why I as an engineer and producer eschew using these tools. I always strive for continuous takes on the instrumental and make sure that the singer never gets near Auto-Tune. Hell, for one band I'm in I use my laptop openly to generate sounds that would never be possible live (there's a 303 in one song, an organ in another, etc.), but never use a sequencer and always own up to using live electronics. All the bands that throw out trickery are unpopular in the mainstream (Don Caballero, Coachwhips, Mount Eerie, etc.) or unknown. Seriously, you can blame the pop trends of the '90s and the mainstream R&B/rap scene for the shit that happens today. The world would be better without artists like T-Pain screwing around with Auto-Tune only to not use it live, which is a bullshit excuse since Antares makes a rack mountable on-board version of Auto-Tune that works the same as the VST or RTAS, which lets down the audience and also shows how much technology dictates the sound. Fuck, the Flaming Lips admit to using backings for a lot of synths they could never do live, but at least Wayne always sounds like Wayne. It's just sad to see that people don't have to possess and ounce of talent to become popular.
My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.
The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.
I couldn't agree more Fruno. Yours is an especially interesting take on it because you are a professional recording engineer and experience this stuff first hand.
For me, the (over)use of technology and effects in the studio has two results.
Firstly, it gives me a greater appreciation for those who don't use them at all, or who use them sparingly at best.
Secondly, it gives me an even greater appreciation for those who have learned to utilize the technology in their live presentations in an organic way. Probably no surprise to anyone that I am about to mention Radiohead, but after Kid A and Amnesiac I was extremely curious as to how they were going to incorporate these new elements into their live sound. The answer was seamlessly. This has informed how they wrote the material which followed on Hail to the Thief and In Rainbows as they knew they'd have to be able to bring these sounds to a live audience. The ability of Phil Selway to play such perfect polyrhythms with some of the programmed beats only shows me what a phenomenal drummer he really is.
You bring up the Flaming Lips and they are another great example. Wayne has responded more than once to the question of "what instrument do you play?" by answering "the recording studio." It's that kind of honesty that I appreciate.
The difference between those who rely on technology in order to exist in the first place and those who use it as another instrument at their disposal is a great one.
Indeed. Radiohead are a great example. Their reliance on loops and bizarre instruments is what behooves them to live performance. Idioteque alone has three loops (drums, Mild und leise sample, and some ambience) that carry the song. They can replicate these by using real drums, keyboards, and guitar effects or flying them in digitally. I've seen videos of both. Greenwood's use of the ondes martenot also allows them to create sounds that seem irreplaceable by using effects, but they simply bring in the unit for shows (a French Connection controller with the compatible sound oscillator and then DI it to the FOH mixer). Coyne's playing of the studio is like Eno's use of the studio, meaning that they both have and continue to use technology as an instrument but manage to pull it off live. Hell, look at Bowie! The Berlin Trilogy had Eno as a musician, not a producer, and had no real drums. But listen to Stage or Live (whichever has some LOW trax), and you can hear that those drum sounds are being replicated live before samplers. Both the use of the synth patches and real drums treated on the fly with what sounds like a heavy compressor and gate with some Fairchild harmonizer allow the studio environment to come to life in a real setting. of Montreal amaze me by doing all their songs live without any backings. They use (like Dirty Projectors and St. Vincent) and Akai sample pad mounted to the drums that trigger distinct drum sounds or unique samples, but don't play to a click - it's all about timing. Selway ranks amongst the best drummers for his polys, and seeing those vodcasts shows why Radiohead are one of the best bands out there today period.
REAL EXPERIENCE: When I first started remixing, engineering, and co-producing the CD for one of the bands I'm in, I had to build up a song from the ground floor. I mean, every part had to be reinstated into Pro Tools, all effects were stripped, etc. This damn song was coming from an HD system (unlimited tracks) to an LE system (limited tracks), and we had to pile through all of the previous producer's edits, effects units, and EQ marks. I realized that this guy had been raised on Pro Tools only - there were literally over 50 edits to the drum track alone, the vocals were pieced together from approximately 20 takes, and the backing vocals were treated with Auto-Tune...very obvious Auto-Tune (he had bounced these vox down so we could never strip them of the effect...bastard). I was raised using tape my first week at the studio, then moved on to Pro Tools. I learned how to edit, track, and mix using tape, I learned how not to punch in, what effects to use, and quickly took to a minimal style. I worked for a total of 40 hours with tape before moving on to Pro Tools. That's not a lot, but each hour was so intense that it felt like 160 by the time I was done. Mixing the single track in question took me a month and a half, over 100 hours, no fewer than 10 different final mixdowns, seven different sound systems and three weeks of working from 10am to 3am the next morning to get it right. Technology had ruined the songs core, which was a simple poppy song to contrast the stoner rock sound of the rest of the album. Where he had used no fewer than five effects on the vocals (compressor, EQ, light Auto-Tune, limiter, de-esser), I used two (compression, EQ). The guitar tracks (all eight of them) suffered the same fate at his hands and the same salvaging at mine. I hate that song, but it stands as one of my proudest moments because I eschewed technology at it's most base level.
My favorite bands can kick your favorite bands' asses.
The horizon is right and motionless like the EKG of a dying woman.
I'm curious, does anybody here listen to The Streets?
What do ya think of him if yes?
According to Jeff Coffin's site it appears as if he's going to be joining the Dave Matthews Band. I don't know if this means he's just going to be joining the band for their 2009 tour, or if he's planning on becoming a permanent member. And I kinda wonder what this means for the Flecktones. From what I've gathered I don't think they're planning on touring till next fall, so it won't interfere with DMB's tour since they're usually done by sept.
Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about it. I can't really see anyone replacing Roi, but I guess if someone's going to Jeff would be a good pick.
http://www.jeffcoffin.com/
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
Seems like a good fit for me. As long as touring schedules permit, I'm sure Jeff can manage to be in both bands. Truth be told, I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing Bela mix things up a bit. I like what Coffin does, but I'd be willing to listen to another horn player too. As long as Victor and Bela stay I'll be fine. Seeing Bela with Stanley Clarke and Jean-Luc Ponty was pretty damn cool.
For selfish reasons, I hope he at least stays with the Flecktones till I get a chance to see them. I've been saying for years that I want to catch them live at some point, but haven't yet.
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
It's a good live show, especially when Victor and Bela each take their extended solo sections. Victor's is always particularly interesting.
Satch Boogie is one of the songs on the new Guitar Hero.
Interesting article on a theory of music and human evolution.
http://www.economist.com/printeditio...ry_id=12795510
mike skinner/the streets is awesome!Originally Posted by Unfound One
Ive been totally getting into british hip hop recently
I like it better than american hip hop/ rap which i feel has become comercialized and stagnant
Jamie T is my favorite by far, cant wait for his 2nd album
if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do
This looks interesting...
Tribute bands make me cringe. They always wind up reminding me of the band that played Otto's wedding on the Simpsons...
"We're Cynanide, a loving tribute to Poison!"
Covers are one thing, but doing a whole show based on imitating another band is something else entirely. The only thing worse is these "reunion tours" where real bands become their own tribute band.
The only way I'd really be interested in that tribute is if Del Rey were playing. I can accept a tribute done by surviving band members alot easier than others.
Oh, and that was an interesting article. Steven Pinker whom they mention in it is a really smart guy who's written some good books in the fields of linguistics and neuroscience, but this quote killed me.
Singing is auditory masturbation to satisfy this craving. Playing musical instruments is auditory pornography
I like midget-kiss better than normal kiss
if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do
Those kinds of things are slightly more acceptable on some level, but on another level it kind of makes me sad.
It is a great quote. It reminds me of Zappa criticizing guitar players who go 'weedle-dee-deedle-dee-dee' in their solos and calling it "musical masturbation." That, in turn, always leads me to a quote from Marc Ribot joking about unsophisticated fans who go crazy when guitar players play high notes really loud because these fans don't realize that a guitar is not a trumpet and it is no more difficult on a guitar to play a loud high note than a low one.Oh, and that was an interesting article. Steven Pinker whom they mention in it is a really smart guy who's written some good books in the fields of linguistics and neuroscience, but this quote killed me.
Singing is auditory masturbation to satisfy this craving. Playing musical instruments is auditory pornography
Tribute bands, I don't know... I do like the occasional tribute show, though, for musicians that have died. Its a way to honor somebody after they have passed and have had an impact on your own music playing. I've been really touched by some Elliott Smith tribute shows.
Oh, I've heard some good tribute bands myself. There's just something that doesn't feel right about it for me. It's like their having some level of success because of tragedy in a way. I don't really know how to say it. It just seems depressing to me usually.
All the proceeds from the Elliott Smith tribute shows go to the Elliott Smith Foundation.
I agree Ryan. A tribute show/album by artists covering the works of another artist (who has passed, or who is an influence, etc) is far different than a tribute band.
That said, most tribute shows/albums I have seen or heard have been horrible. There's such a seeming lack of originality as people tend to cover the songs trying to sound exactly like the original. It never quite works for me. Still, the thought behind it is in the right place, and when, as you pointed out, the proceeds go to a worthy cause, it's that much more worthwhile even if the music is less than stellar.
Tribute bands, on the other hand, are for people who can't get over not having seen some real band in their prime so they settle for imitators.
Oh, and Brice, thanks for commenting on that article. Glad you liked it. I posted it at two radically different guitar forums I belong to and was simply stunned at the lack of response it got from people who allege to love music.
I'm about to radically change the subject from tribute bands if I may
Does anybody else in here feel the way I do? (pink floyd quote)
About the fact that the current generation of musicians need to (and I'm sure eventually will) create something NEW, something disconnected with wallowing in the 60/70s nostalgia that rock n roll has become?
Something in fact disconnected from the 2nd half of the 20th century, something as disconnected from Rock n roll as rock n roll is from jazz?
N I dont mean hip hop n rap or any of the currently commercial/ stagnant pop/ electronic/ autotunes/ narcissistic crap being billed as "R n B" or whatever they call it now being played on ur local radio stations
Right now our music is still the music of the 20th century despite being almost a decade in, but thats ok since Minstrel Shows and brass bands were still the prefered (American) entertainment in the years 1900-1910
What do u think the first wave of distinctly 21st century music will be?
And I mean from anywhere not just the USA
is it already happening and I just don't know it yet?
if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do
Maybe because they weren't intelligent enough to grasp it.Either that or too lazy to read the article.
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