General Music Discussion

[Girlystevedave]

Wow Feev. You're my hero.

In other news...
A Public Service Announcement for iTunes Users:
I highly recommend downloading Genius when you update to the new version of iTunes. It's brilliant.
Basically it analyzes the music you have in your library, how often you listen to it, genres and such, and then compares it to ratings on iTunes.
When you're in a mood for a certain song, you play that song, click the Genius button, and it automatically compiles a playlist for you of similar music in your own library.

I love it - I've been using it nonstop since I downloaded it.

/end PSA

That sounds pretty cool. I'm gonna have to check it out.

[Ruthful]

Yay Once!
Anyone who's heard or seen it: What's your favorite song?

I like the song where Glen Hansard's co-star is walking down the street at night singing the song he wrote for her.

It's a shame that there are so few original musicals adapted for the screen, e.g. Hedwig, yet so many horrible "blockbusters" based upon comic books, some of which, e.g. Ghostrider, ninety percent of the movie-going population has never even heard of.

[Frunobulax]

The Genius Playlist option on iTunes 8 is fucking amazing. The new visualizer also rules. All I'm saying is it handles my 28,520 (and ever expanding) songs - and the playlists it gives are spot on perfect each time.

[jayson]

Fruno has returned!!!

[Unfound One]

WHOA! I didn't even check out the new visualizer until you said that Fruno - it's fucking SWEET!

[Frunobulax]

Heh. Just doing my public duty as an iTunes lover and a person who likes to look at shit other than lists.

[jayson]

Coldplay is getting sued for plagiarism by guitarist Joe Satriani who claims the Coldplay song "Viva La Vida" borrows heavily from one of his songs.

Here's a youtube video with both songs, first independently and then mixed together.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I"]YouTube - Did Coldplay copy Joe Satriani?[/ame]

Now, I don't know that Coldplay intentionally stole the melody (or if they even listen to Satch) but it is quite clearly the exact same song. Remember, George Harrison did not intentionally borrow from The Chiffon's "He's So Fine" in writing "My Sweet Lord" but he was successfully sued by their record label nonetheless.

[Unfound One]

Whoa...
Definitely the same song. Yikes.

[jayson]

Yep. I've heard quite a few people trying to use the "well, there's only twelve notes you can use" theory to explain the overlap, but that does very little to explain why the timing is exactly the same.

Of course, being a fan of Indian music and Bill Frisell I also don't buy the 12-note scale thing. Microtonality rules.

[obscurejude]

I'd like to see the details of the lawsuit. My first reaction is that its just Satriani's self hero worship thats provoking the dispute, but again, that's my emotional response, which sometimes isn't perfect.

[jayson]

I'm no fan of Satch's ego either.

The question to me is that I don't know how it can be established whether or not anyone in Coldplay ever heard that song prior to writing their song. It was easier to establish that Harrison had heard "He's So Fine" as it was a major hit and a hit in a genre of music Harrison had expressed he listened to. Satch is a bit more obscure in that he doesn't really get radio play. That said, I would imagine the guys in Coldplay are fairly socially active and have been any number of places where it could have been played and subconsciously gotten into one of their heads. The timing of the melody and changes being exactly the same is what seems like more than coincidence to me. So-called "subconscious plagiarism" was the basis of the Harrison decision.

I find it all very interesting because I personally find Coldplay to be an extremely derivative band in general. I'm not saying they're bad, they're just fairly far from original. I guess now we'll find out just how far.

[Frunobulax]

I really want neither party to win. Bad music versus bad ego...hmmm... Yeah, microtones are the new retrograde.

[obscurejude]

Great point about Coldplay Jayson. The irony is that what makes them even a little original is Chris Martin's voice which Satch claims he stole from his guitar. Almost all of Coldplay's chord progressions and leads are fairly basic, but its how they compliment Martin's voice that gives Coldplay their "sound." Sometimes they do subtle things musically, like tuning the high E up a half step like in the case of "yellow" but its mainly his voice.

:shrugs:

As far as this particular Satriani solo, its one of the more generic ones. It sounds like he's just hitting the main notes of the scale- its note exactly virtuoso guitar playing. It's like mediocrity is suing mediocrity (at least in the sample I heard).

I respect both musicians and I'm surprised there's an uproar over something so seemingly basic.

[jayson]

The irony is that what makes them even a little original is Chris Martin's voice which Satch claims he stole from his guitar.

Interestingly, on this particular song, it's his voice that I find derivative, though not of Satch's guitar, but of Bono's delivery. If it weren't for the iTunes commercial, I'd never have known this song existed (until today). When I first heard the commercial I wasn't looking at the tv. I looked up expecting to see U2 given the voice I was hearing. It sounds to me like Chris is doing a passable Bono impersonation on this song.

In the end, I guess I want Satriani to win on the grounds that it would otherwise be unfair to George Harrison. If he was "guilty" so is Coldplay. I know that is not legitimate or legally binding reasoning, but it's honest.

...microtones are the new retrograde.

If I didn't just change my signature, I'd probably sig that. I may do it anyway.

[obscurejude]

I said a little original but you're right, that doesn't particularly come out at all in this song.

I see your point about Harrison, but I still think its an ego thing. Again, all I know about the situation is the youtube video. I sure there's more to it, and knowing Satriani, the guitar work probably gets more difficult (even if it shouldn't ). I'd be interested to see how long the plagiarism can be sustained.

[jayson]

I said a little original but you're right, that doesn't particularly come out at all in this song.

Oh I know he doesn't sing like that on every song. My wife likes them a little bit so I hear some of their stuff from time to time.

...and knowing Satriani, the guitar work probably gets more difficult (even if it shouldn't ).

Now there's a true statement if I've ever read one. I have little to no interest in Satriani because it seems his entire goal is to see how many notes he can cram into 2 seconds. I am not at all opposed to shredding in all cases, but I like it to evolve more organically from what's being played than it often does in his music.

[obscurejude]

Very agreed on Satriani. The same could be said of Vai and Malmsteen.

I guess we'll have to see what happens with the lawsuit and how the ripples effect the music industry. It might make for some more good music conversation.

I am a fan of Kirk Hammett and I know that Satriani helped him a lot during the sessions that became Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets. Fade to Black is one of my favorite songs and I think every guitar part is perfect within the context of the song. Sanitarium is another good example from this period. Its interesting that I think of Kirk as adding to the show while his teacher seems to draw attention to the guitar alone, often at the cost of the aesthetic of the song. There's a really interesting interview in the Guitar World: Legends edition with Metallica where Kirk and Joe talk about those days and James similarly discusses guitar chops with Tony Iomi, one of his mentors. I think it came out in 95, but I might be a year off. I was a freshman in high school at the time and had been playing guitar about a month.

[Frunobulax]

Britt Daniel>Satriani
All Satch cares about is trying to reach elusive 1024th notes while implying the most obvious harmonies and intervals. Hey, ever hear of a 4th? Or a dissonant tritone? Maybe adding in a 2nd in a chord in the bass while implying the 7th? Yeeesh!

[jayson]

Very agreed on Satriani. The same could be said of Vai and Malmsteen.

It could be, but if it were said of Vai it would be wrong. Vai is a LOT more than just speed and shred. His work with Frank Zappa alone is the kind of guitar playing that most players couldn't match if given a thousand years. I had the pleasure of seeing him guest with Dweezil's Zappa Plays Zappa tour and it was simply jaw-dropping. There is nobody quite like Vai. There's a reason Frank called him "my little Italian virtuoso". It's as apt a title for Vai as any. Not all of his solo work is up my alley, but some of it is downright magical.

[obscurejude]

I haven't really listened to him much. I had a friend who was obsessed with G 3 and thus I spent a few long evenings watching very long DVD's.

Forgive me if it was a careless statement. I definitely got the vibe that Malmsteen and Satch were a little self indulgent. Plus, with Joe, I've heard his albums as well as the G 3 stuff.

Music snob.

[Frunobulax]

Vai's work is seriously some of the best stuff out there. The FZ days did show why he's considered one of the best. Black Page on guitar, Sinister Footwear III, Moggio, etc. all show talent beyond compare.

[obscurejude]

I'll be sure to give Vai another shot. Thanks for the intel fellas.

[jayson]

All the listening to Vai I did couldn't prepare me for the experience of seeing him play with Zappa Plays Zappa. Among other things, there was a display of what could be done with a whammy bar that was just mind-boggling. I was impressed enough with Dweezil and the band he assembled, but Vai's playing is still burned into my brain two years later.

Other than seeing Ribot from a few feet away in a very small club there's nothing else I can compare it to. They're both guys that do things with the instrument that nobody else would even think to do let alone pull it off.

[Frunobulax]

Vai's playing during the ZPZ I saw two years ago here in LA was fucking incredible as well. And he more than made up for the injured Bozzio.

[jayson]

Injured Bozzio, that's a shame. He was in fine condition at the Orlando show (fall tour of 06) and like Vai, he was phenomenal. One of the best shows I've ever seen.