The eBay BS Game: Questionable items, Stephen King signatures, sellers

[e_taylor]

And here is her response:

Please be aware that I have forwarded your message and accusations to the Ebay Trust and Safety Department for further review. I strongly suggest you think very very carefully before making further unfounded allegations. Having had extended email communication with the Trust and Safety Dept before listing my items I am already aware of the policies regarding signed works and am folowing them to the letter. You as a private individual have no right to demand providence of anything. I have listed the history of the articles and am in possesion of 2 seperate signed noterised affadavidits from the vendor of the signed works I am selling as to their authenticity. I am also in possesion of over 50 noterised copies of photgraphs of this person with a number of the authors themselves. This documentation has been made avalable to ebay at any time should they wish to view it as is their right. To repeat, they have a right to view it, you do not. They are private documents relating to a private finacial transaction and ar not for either publc display or perusal. I once again strongly suggest that you think very carefully before making any further false allegations as I will have no hesitation whatsover in pursueing you to the full extent of both ebay's policies regarding member harrassment and libel, and whatever legal avenues are available via your own ISP and State Law.

VERY defensive now. And slightly illiterate.

[Hutch]

The seller will not seek legal action for obvious reasons. A reliable source contacted Stephen King's office about 3 or 4 weeks ago regarding this seller. The reply was that they may look into the issue via Ebay's own vero rights program. I don't know if King's office staff has proceeded or not. Maybe if a few other collectors contact King's office staff action may take place.

Per Ebay's Vero Rights:
"eBay is committed to protecting the intellectual property rights of third parties and to providing its users with a safe place to trade. eBay created the Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program so that intellectual property owners could easily report listings that infringe their rights. It is in eBay’s interest to ensure that infringing items are removed from the site, as they erode buyer and seller trust."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/programs-vero-ov.html

And here is her response:

Please be aware that I have forwarded your message and accusations to the Ebay Trust and Safety Department for further review. I strongly suggest you think very very carefully before making further unfounded allegations. Having had extended email communication with the Trust and Safety Dept before listing my items I am already aware of the policies regarding signed works and am folowing them to the letter. You as a private individual have no right to demand providence of anything. I have listed the history of the articles and am in possesion of 2 seperate signed noterised affadavidits from the vendor of the signed works I am selling as to their authenticity. I am also in possesion of over 50 noterised copies of photgraphs of this person with a number of the authors themselves. This documentation has been made avalable to ebay at any time should they wish to view it as is their right. To repeat, they have a right to view it, you do not. They are private documents relating to a private finacial transaction and ar not for either publc display or perusal. I once again strongly suggest that you think very carefully before making any further false allegations as I will have no hesitation whatsover in pursueing you to the full extent of both ebay's policies regarding member harrassment and libel, and whatever legal avenues are available via your own ISP and State Law.

VERY defensive now. And slightly illiterate.

[e_taylor]

Got yet another email from her:

Pursuant to my last communication. Please also be aware that I have contacted all 121 customers to which I have sold signed volumes from various authors over the past 2 months and requested that they immediately contact either myself or Ebay should they receive any form of communication from you containing accusations of fraud. You will no doubt be disappointed to learn that 21 have already replied, including 8 who have already had their purchases independently authenticated. I should also inform you that, whilst you are indeed correct in your assertations concerning Ebay?s listing policies, you should also be aware that they take EXACTLY the same stance in regards to punitive actions against those who dilute confidence in the buying environment by making false accusations against either other members or rival vendors. I have forwarded the 2 signed notarized Affidavits to the Trust and Safety Dept containing, firstly, a full list of the items I purchased and which are covered by the guarantee of authenticity, and secondly, the guarantee itself and certification of identity of the vendor. Allow me to add in closing that I find your accusations both offensive and ungrounded. Regards. Diane.


- renaissance_auctions

Haven't decided if I'm going to continue this back and forth, as it seems a bit redundant, but who knows, maybe if I feel a bit more testy later.....

She says some have been authenticated, but I doubt any of the King signatures have!

[jhanic]

The "lady" doeth protest too much, me thinks!

John

[Rahfa]

If there's one thing I've learned about ebay "threats" like that, is the more legalese the babbling gets, the less chance any of it means...in this case, of course, none of it means anything. She hasn't had anybody reply to her, there have been no items "independently authenicated," nor "noterized" statements written...such nonsense...I'm going to write her too.

We'll see what this brings us:

"Other than your claim of a "stewardess" in a first class cabin, what provenance can you offer for these Stephen King signatures? Obviously, you must not be aware they are clearly fakes, because that would make you a fraud and a thief. But, you are making good money selling them to stupid rubes, so good for you anyway."

[e_taylor]

If there's one thing I've learned about ebay "threats" like that, is the more legalese the babbling gets, the less chance any of it means...in this case, of course, none of it means anything. She hasn't had anybody reply to her, there have been no items "independently authenicated," nor "noterized" statements written...such nonsense...I'm going to write her too.

We'll see what this brings us:

"Other than your claim of a "stewardess" in a first class cabin, what provenance can you offer for these Stephen King signatures? Obviously, you must not be aware they are clearly fakes, because that would make you a fraud and a thief. But, you are making good money selling them to stupid rubes, so good for you anyway."

She can't provide provenance, but apparently CAN provide providence!

I think our best bet is to just annoy the piss out of her on every one of her King auctions. 20+ members harassing you each time you list an item? I'd get tired of it pretty fast.....

[Patrick]

So what do you think are the odds that she bought these in good faith and that she was swindled? That wouldn't justify screwing over the next person down the line, I'm just wondering if this is any real possibility.

[Brice]

So what do you think are the odds that she bought these in good faith and that she was swindled? That wouldn't justify screwing over the next person down the line, I'm just wondering if this is any real possibility.

I'd say virtually nonexistent. Who would buy as many signatures as she apparently does/did (if they were real) without at least being relatively certain of their legitimacy. I just can't imagine those 121 books (or more) she says she's sold were bought in good faith. And as has already been pointed out she's way too defensive. I think she not only is selling fakes, but knowingly selling fakes and probably signed them herself or had friends do it.

[Hutch]

So what do you think are the odds that she bought these in good faith and that she was swindled? That wouldn't justify screwing over the next person down the line, I'm just wondering if this is any real possibility.

Check the auctions she's won... you'll see a few unsigned King titles that appear
for sale a few weeks later.... signed.

[Hutch]

ouch....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-Dar...QQcmdZViewItem

[Randall Flagg]

I really think that spending an inordinate amount of money- financially helping her out, to provide one negative comment and try to get her nailed for fraud is a waste of resources.
Continually reorting the auctions to E-bay, writing to King's office and peppering her with e-mails is a better use of time. I am suprised, but pleased that she gives such lengthy reposnses as it takes time and effort.

[Patrick]

Yeah, that's about what I figured too, just thought I'd throw out an option that gives her the benefit of the doubt. I think you're right though.

[e_taylor]

We have a victory people! She has pulled all her King auctions! In the latest email she tells me:

Firstly?your assertation that King has never signed with the underlining you describe as ?calligraphy?. You and your other so-called ?experts? are incorrect. I have 3 signed King works which contain such in my own collection, all of which have COA?s issued by James Spence Jr.

I have suspended all of my King auctions until such a time as I can have all signatures verified and authenticated independently in order to resolve this issue. I have noted the prices and cost contained in taking this action, and will be further calculating the cost of each COA obtained and will be seeking damages against you for the full amount once the items are re-listed for sale.

And best best gem:

I am frankly appalled that I order for an honest person to do business in a free market environment they are forced to deal with this kind of harassment, time wasting and offence.

[Randall Flagg]

Be careful. She could get treble damages..................oh wait, she'd first have to prove she's not a fraud.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

We have a victory people! She has pulled all her King auctions!

I think ebay has pulled her auctions after all the complaints we made!

[Randall Flagg]

She still has a lot of auctions with signed items, just none claiming to be signed by King.
I have no idea if any other auctions are legitimate signatures, but based upon the King stuff, I would be highly suspicious.
Listing of auctions

[jhanic]

Firstly?your assertation that King has never signed with the underlining you describe as ?calligraphy?. You and your other so-called ?experts? are incorrect. I have 3 signed King works which contain such in my own collection, all of which have COA?s issued by James Spence Jr.

Pardon my ignorance, but who the heck is James Spence Jr? A COA is only as good as the person issuing it (and in most cases, nothing!).

John

[Randall Flagg]

I rely on several people to provide COA's:
Ben Dover
Seymour Butts
I.P. Freely

[Hutch]

Firstly?your assertation that King has never signed with the underlining you describe as ?calligraphy?. You and your other so-called ?experts? are incorrect. I have 3 signed King works which contain such in my own collection, all of which have COA?s issued by James Spence Jr.

Pardon my ignorance, but who the heck is James Spence Jr? A COA is only as good as the person issuing it (and in most cases, nothing!).

John

http://www.spenceloa.com/

[jhanic]

Thanks, Dave. I've never heard of him before. How is his reputation? His site seems real enough.

John

[Hutch]

Thanks, Dave. I've never heard of him before. How is his reputation? His site seems real enough.

John

no idea... I only just googled his name. The trouble I have with many companies that claim expertise in multiple fields ( multiple authors, celebreties, sports figures,. etc ) is that I think it nearly impossible to be good at all of them.

You're much better off finding a few who can honestly evaluate as a group.
Ceri ( SKfakes ) found a good mix of well known collectors and sellers who have been specializing in Stephen King for decades to evaluate signatures for his site.

[Sir_Boomme]

Thanks, Dave. I've never heard of him before. How is his reputation? His site seems real enough.

John

no idea... I only just googled his name. The trouble I have with many companies that claim expertise in multiple fields ( multiple authors, celebreties, sports figures,. etc ) is that I think it nearly impossible to be good at all of them.

You're much better off finding a few who can honestly evaluate as a group.
Ceri ( SKfakes ) found a good mix of well known collectors and sellers who have been specializing in Stephen King for decades to evaluate signatures for his site.

well. i looked at the JSA site and i don't see a single one of the many "experts" listed as having any expertise in literary signatures.
sports...yes, history...yes, movie stars...yes, but no literary experts.

i personally think i... (and the other hardcore king collectors on here)- having hundreds of stephen king limited edition signatures to compare to, having 17+ years of serious collecting of everything king - i think we as a group are much more qualified to authenticate king signatures than someone who probably has never owned a limited edition king book and simply specializes in sports memorabilia.

i'd trust hutch's or my own opinion way over any or the "experts" at JSA - when it comes to stephen king at least.

[Patrick]

A small victory, but a meaningful one nonetheless.

[jhanic]

Agreed.

John

[Nerak]

My turn to bug them:

From me:
"I was wondering if you have had Mr. King's signature authenticated?
If so, can you send me an email or scan of this authentication.
Thank You"

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tales-of-Witchcr...QQcmdZViewItem
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