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Thread: Susan and Cuthbert

  1. #26
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    He speaks the truth, I gotten numerous slaps *rubs side of face*
    Me too *rubs butt*

    Quote Originally Posted by MonteGss View Post
    If she had met Cuthbert first, I think she would have "fallen madly in love" with him instead. I know my answer won't be very popular but that is what I believe.
    Fair enough...but I don't agree I think that she would've found Cuthbert's sense of humour irritating - she was a girl with some serious responsibility on her plate (father's death, the mayor business etc) and I think she was looking for a man/boy that would make her feel safe whilst still respecting her for her independance. I think that was the exclusive attraction with Roland that she didn't share with Cuth - the attraction to Cuthbert was superficial.

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    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    For my part I can imagine that she would have loved Cuth's sense of homour. And we know that Cuthbert can be deadly serious in the important situations and conversations.

    Roland would have understood.

  3. #28
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    I think that it would've annoyed her the way Eddie's annoyed Roland. I don't mean she didn't have a sense of humour at all Just that Cuthbert's humour is his trademark - King writes it to imply its slightly over the top and thats how I think she would've felt about it.

  4. #29
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Yes, but Roland and Eddie are very different. Their senses of homour... sky and earth! I mean... Roland is... not open enough. Roland is Roland.

    Roland would have understood.

  5. #30
    Mother of Dragons Erin will become famous soon enough Erin will become famous soon enough Erin's Avatar

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    I don't think Susan would have fallen in love with Cuthbert. I feel her love for Roland was deep and true.

    I think Letti made a very good point on the last page, Susan's last, dying words while being burned to death were professing her love for Roland. This proves to me it was a strong love and not just "teenage puppy love".

    Excellent thread idea by the way Letti.
    I am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine. With fire and blood.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I don't think Susan would have fallen in love with Cuthbert. I feel her love for Roland was deep and true.

    I think Letti made a very good point on the last page, Susan's last, dying words while being burned to death were professing her love for Roland. This proves to me it was a strong love and not just "teenage puppy love".

    Excellent thread idea by the way Letti.
    What she said. Couldn't have said better myself.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  7. #32
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Yes, but Roland and Eddie are very different. Their senses of homour... sky and earth! I mean... Roland is... not open enough. Roland is Roland.
    I think Susan and Cuthbert were very different too

  8. #33
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Yes, but Roland and Eddie are very different. Their senses of homour... sky and earth! I mean... Roland is... not open enough. Roland is Roland.
    I think Susan and Cuthbert were very different too
    And weren't Susan and Roland different, too?

    Roland would have understood.

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    Yes, but my point being that I don't think she'd have fallen for Cuthbert in the way she fell for Roland - and that Cuthbert's way about him (which is similar to Eddie's, hence my point about Roland and Eddie) would have been an element in why she wouldn't have liked him as much.

    Love that smiley

  10. #35
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Do you say "no way" or "not likely"?

    Roland would have understood.

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    I think she and Cuth could've copped off a few times, but nothing serious, certainly not love.

  12. #37
    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    oh, I'm sure it would have been love. As great, passionate, and self-sacrificing as with Roland. With first love, it doesn't depend on the object, only on the one who falls in love because it's time, and because she (sometimes he) knows very well - from the lore - what love is supposed to be, and if the person in love is by nature whole and strong, there you are. Cuthbert, Roland, Alain, doesn't really matter.

    Erin: of course she was crying, "Roland I love you". What else was she supposed to say? She was dying, it was the most important event of her life; sure she was referring to her life's strongest experience. Whether it was love for Roland or just the experience of herself in love (independently of the object) is just what is still a big question... to which we see opposite answers.

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  13. #38
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    With first love, it doesn't depend on the object...?
    My first oh-so-crazy love was nothing next to the second one.

    Anyway I don't think she could have fallen in love with Alain.. somehow.

    Roland would have understood.

  14. #39
    Guardian of the Beam Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger's Avatar

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    Yeah, I take back an earlier statement of her and Alain, I read the book yesterday, and I see why you feel the way you do Letti

    I agree that she would only have ended up with Roland, though I wish it had been Cuthbert, because he would have cried off for her, but ka is ka

  15. #40
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Letti, I have to agree with you pretty much all the way on this one.

    I said above that I believe she could have fallen for Cuthbert, had she met him first, and I still believe so. But you speak fro me when you qualify that with '.. only Cuthbert...'. 'Bert was a lot deeper and truer than his 'immediate' impression might imply imho. He was indeed a Gunslinger.

    Personally (& I've read WaG a good few times & love it), I really like Susan's character, not that I just don't mind her - I like her.
    I don't think she had it in mind to renege on her committment (even though forced into it) to her soon-to-be-Gilly to Mayor Thorin. She fell for real for Roland, and just might well have fallen for real for 'Bert had she met him on the road that night. Had she met neither then she would have gone to Thorin's bed - sad & miserable yes, but she would have gone.
    It was great that, short though it was, she found a better answer. Had Roland been more mature it might have been a better answer again, but Ka is a black wind after all.
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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I'm not sure I have read something I agree with more in a long time. Very well said Brian.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

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    The Tenant Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean has much to be proud of Jean's Avatar

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    strange as it may seem (considering that our opinions on the whole question are very different) I agree with that too. Brian, it was extremely well put (even the Ka gag... even though I am sure that there is no Ka, I could accept that metaphor of black wind as long as I can see it as a metaphor...)

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
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  18. #43
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    It was good to read your wise and nice words, Brian.
    Thank you for all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Erin: of course she was crying, "Roland I love you". What else was she supposed to say? She was dying, it was the most important event of her life; sure she was referring to her life's strongest experience.
    Of course???
    Jean.
    I think most of the people are not heroes. We are just human beings. I don't think that it's natural to cry out someone's name who led you to death even if you loved him a lot.
    I mean...
    She knew she would die. She was horribly scared and confused and she had indescribable fears and thoughts. She was not able to die in a comfortable bed.
    When you are very ill and dying and you feel death close and you are lying in your well-known old bed it's still not easy to find the words you would like to say.
    She was about to die in fire...
    And when she felt the heat she still could pull herself together and she wasn't cryin for help or mercy... she cried to someone who wasn't there at all.

    For me it's not so natural or of course.
    Does it make any sense?
    It amazes me. It's over me. And sorry to say this but I think it's over most of us.

    Roland would have understood.

  19. #44
    Banned Jimmy is on a distinguished road

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    If Susan was basically imprinting her love on the first guy that caught her eye, she would've gone with Bert.

    BUT, if her love for Roland was because of Ka, then it wouldn't have mattered.

    I always thought it was Ka that guided her to Roland, and he to her. That is why, even while burning alive, she thought of only him, and why he carried his love for her through countless reboots, to the Tower, again and again.

  20. #45
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I believe what you just said Jimmy is the entire point of the story.

    That's what she kept thinking about..."this is bad, bad idea"

    but Ka is like the wind and it will blow down your barn, kill your animals, whatever it likes
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  21. #46
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Cuthbert himself said it: "If I had a hot dinner for every time someone blamed theft or lust or some other supidity on ka -"

    Sorry guys but in my eyes it seems to be very easy to say this is ka and that is ka. I know now it's the KA question again but as long as we are talking about DT we will meet it again and again.
    It's not easy to talk or discuss things with someone who belives in ka.

    Roland would have understood.

  22. #47
    Banned Jimmy is on a distinguished road

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    You might not believe in Ka Letti, but in the confines of the story it exists, and it's almost a character in it's own right.

  23. #48
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    You might not believe in Ka Letti, but in the confines of the story it exists, and it's almost a character in it's own right.
    Why would it exist?
    Please explain it to me if you don't mind.

    Roland would have understood.

  24. #49
    Banned Jimmy is on a distinguished road

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    Well, you could almost say Ka is the plot itself. Or more precisely, what drives the plot. Writers always say that the characters take on lives of their own when written properly. Plot points are like curveballs thrown at the characters, much like Ka is used in DT. The only difference is that the characters are able to see these plot points as Ka due to the magical nature of the world(s) they live in.

  25. #50
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I believe in destiny and that has something to do with Ka.

    I always consider them interesting conversations.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

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