The Dark Tower Q&A - Ask a question, get an answer! *spoilers*

[Letti]

that's interesting letti. do you think god (if you believe in him/her - or let's say a higher power if you prefer that terminology) has a voice?

I don't think God has a voice, either. (Gan/God - they are quite the same for me)
Of course we can hear him but never with our ears but with our hearts.

[Brice]

...or perhaps the birth of new worlds???

Oh, I love this idea? But why would stepping through a door create a new world? Or do you mean worlds are dying and growing all the time?

Well, in order for there to be truly infinite worlds creation must be an infinite process. Worlds are born all the time I think.

I think maybe the kammen is quite literally the voice of Gan.

This one is even more interesting.
But why would Gan's voice be so deadly disturbing? I can't imagine Gan's voice like that.

Do you not imagine a god's voice as being fearful? I think how we'd hear it is far from it's true nature.

This is probably going to sound silly, but on reading the books, I got the impression the kammen were like an inter-dimensional dialing tone. I.e. you know how making a phone call will send out dialing tones which connect to a specific other phone depending on what tones are made?

I thought this mainly as they always happened just as people were going todash, just as they were coming and going between worlds.

Spoiler:

When the box containing black 13 was opened in front of the door, those chimes were heard again, followed by the door opening in a specific time and place.

This made sense considering the similarity between the sound of the kammen and the warbling of the thinny. I.e. the thinny is in a state of chaos, so the sounds are just warbling all over the place, hence people getting ripped to pieces when they enter it. I.e. part of their body is in one where and when, another part somewhere else, then as the thinny fluctuates, affectively changing dimensional addresses for a fraction of a second, bits are torn off. Like sticking your hand in a mincer, if that makes sense.

I have my doubts that was King's intention though, and I'm probably over-thinking it.

There is no such thing as overthinking, really. It's an interesting idea.

I think maybe the kammen is quite literally the voice of Gan.

This one is even more interesting.
But why would Gan's voice be so deadly disturbing? I can't imagine Gan's voice like that.

Perhaps because something that mind-blowing is beyond human conception and would sound both beautiful and terrible at the same time. It's actually a fairly common concept in mythology that the godhead is both beautiful and terrible to behold all at once. I like the idea Brice.

Thanks! And precisely so.

I tend to associate Gan with the Tower and therefore order, so I'm not sure why the kammen, which are associated with todash would be his voice.

I might be associating todash to much with the prim, i.e. the prim is chaotic, but todash is empty (apart from the monsters.) Again, the Tower (and Gan) as the maker creates substance, so the idea still applies, the kammen, the voice of the void probably isn't his voice.

Then again if we take into account that all things follow the beam/ka/Gan, in which case maybe he (is Gan a he?) indirectly orchestrated the action of Black 13 sending them todash....

Hmmm. Not convinced, but it's all food for fault.

From order comes chaos and vice versa.

I think maybe the kammen is quite literally the voice of Gan.

This one is even more interesting.
But why would Gan's voice be so deadly disturbing? I can't imagine Gan's voice like that.

isn't that what the metatron is for? to serve as the holy scribe because man cannot bear the actual sound of god's voice or sight of holy word? so it would make sense that the sound of gan's voice would be disturbing on a visceral level. and, in some ways, that the manni could handle it better.

Similar to the metatron, definitely.

Right now I don't think that I have any good explanation but I think Gan has no voice.
Voices and sounds are too human-like. For me at least.

Sounds are not humanlike necessarily. Perhaps he has a voice that we would interpret quite different from how his ears would hear it.

[Letti]

Yes, but sounds and voices are the vibration of air, and it is a kind of wave motion. So it's not just humanlike.. it's not the right word but so... physical.

[razz]

but how do we know the kammmen ARE sounds? they could only be inside their heads. huh. maybe all the kammen are, are the ringing ears of travels cause by massive vibration when traveling through todash for some reason

[kirin]

its either kind of like the butterfly effect the horn changes a variable and will no doubt have a knock on effect

Spoiler:

or another theorization a saw some time back was the possibility that as there are goodness knows how many multiple earths roland saves one each time he completes his journey the addition of the horn this time could mean the loop of the books is the one from last time

[Matt]

I like that theory, the Dark Tower can certainly exist in all worlds as different things (as we know)

Perhaps this time he will get to save a dog.

^totally serious.

But I think the end literally resets time and having the horn means that a different Roland (no matter how slight) is beginning the journey this time. Hopefully he will cry off and end it.

[kirin]

even if the end didnt literally reset time it would be like it had to roland as he is reset and remembers nothing of the previous loop the horn being the only difference is the only way in which it is different this time round and therefore the only means by which there may be changes in the next journey to the tower

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Yeah, sorry. I figured I may have put this in the wrong section. And thank you for the compliment.


I get the fact that he's the one destined to save all worlds, but turning back time for him merely to prove a point? So he can be self righteous and not get everyone he affiliates hisself with killed?

Excatly. The thinking is if this time he does everything right, i.e. not drop Jake. That he can go to the top of the tower and see whats really there. In my opion i think he is destined to loop forever.

[keylimecody]

Ah, thank you for all of the great explainations, everyone. =)

Well, I guess it was just hard to wrap my head around the fact that time was being reversed solely for Roland. But I suppose it's more of a personal thing. At least that's what I'm gathering.


Edit:
Okay, I've been contemplating it, and here's why I've been puzzled with this ending. I thought Roland's ascension to the top of the tower was the final step in saving all existence. But I realize now that they restored the beams and everything was gravy albeit the Crimson King's rule of the lone balcony of the Tower. He was just a threat to the tower's well being, since he so highly opposed Roland.

So esentially, Roland reaching the top of the Tower wasn't the key to saving the worlds (In other words, reaching the top was a personal vendetta.) The ka-tet saved existence by restoring the beam. Correct?

Sorry, I had this whole long discussion with a friend of mine, and am not sure if I'm making any sense. xD

[UnderTheKillingMoon]

i think that's the main part, in taking down the King and the threat to the Tower. What i have been thinking about is, how many times could Roland have been making this quest, as the story in which we are all so familiar with is not the first? mmmmm?

put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[kirin]

clashing worlds anywhere where the fabric of reality is strained and the mechanisms are quiting lets not also forget it was all once real magic holding this structure in place, for whatever reason the magic was weakened and this ancient civilization who arent about in the time of roland made the system which the tower is a part of as a replacement support system, shame they arent about for it wouldnt have been as easy for the crimson kings minions to weaken the beams and break them if the makers were there to run maintanance

[SpanishDiablo]

I got confused while reading the part in which rat-headed nurse Alia is helping Mia deliver Moldred. She's named as both a "Low woman" and as a Taheen. She has a forehead mark like the Can-toi, but wears no mask, and its features are implied to be different than the other "Low men".
Also, I've supposed from the first moment that both groups of creatures (the Taheen and the Can-toi) are separate and different, but I don't know if I'm right in it.
Thank you all in advance for any light you can add in this subject, and excuse the inconveniences.

[SpanishDiablo]

I guess I got the wrong board while posting this... could you please move it to the place where it should be, in order not to cause any inconveniences?
Thank you.

[Brainslinger]

Can-toi are human-taheen hybrids. I.e. the result of interbreeding between the two species.

It's never made clear as to which Alia is. She could be a can-toi without a mask, or a rat-head taheen. (Did she have the forehead eye? I forget, I'll need to check. I was somewhat confused whether it was part of the mask or the can-toi.

Spoiler:

The comics state it is the latter.

[SpanishDiablo]

Thank you, Brainslinger... that of the forehead mark is said in the Dark Tower, not in Song of Susannah...
I think she's can-toi, chiefly because of her mark, although I get puzzled by her brown rat-like fur, with no defect being described by the author, as opposed to the reddish toothed one of can-toi. I suppose that just like with men, that will be variable... perhaps Alia is some kind of "purest can-toi", given her important task... anyway, that's just divagation. Will go on reading just now.

[PennywiseTheDancingClown]

Two things stick out in my mind after I just completed the series.

First...Black Thirteen in the WTC. I know the end of the series was completed after 9/11 occured and King had opportunities to address what might have happened to it once the towers fell.....but black 13 was the most powerful globe of the wizards bend, do you think the destruction of the towers could also be the destruction of black 13 or will it wake again now that its been disrupted? Or did it return to Calla Bryn Sturgis once Roland reached the top of the tower....Ka's a wheel afterall.

Also, what do you think was the significence of Roland not taking the time to grab the horn once it fell....was time punishing him for not stoping to retrieve it? Is ka give him a second chance to do it right this time....to bring the horn of Eld to the tower....did he need the horn to complete his quest? Or is he just doomed and destined to repeat the quest over and over?

I had mixed emotions when I finished the series....I felt like I had lost some close friends when I closed the book. I almost felt like Suzannah at the end when I was reading about Eddie and Jake....like I was forgetting what they were like before their deaths...they seemed almost as strange to me as they must have to Suzannah.


Any chance King extends the story to another book? Possibly addressing some current events in our world? There seems to be plenty of ways to tie them in

[Matt]

Hey Pennywise, welcome to the site.

These questions and more are being discussed as we speak all over the place, some amazing insight from fans out there.

Its a great feeling to be done with the series.

Personally, I believe the loops are vastly different every time so the fate of black13 is unknown...I like to think a construction worker found it and accidentally sent himself to todash with it but who knows

Finding the horn (to me) changes everything but not necessarily in a good way. I do hope that it means Roland is gaining humanity along the way and therefor is a step closer to salvation but I think that can only really come by crying off the quest as sad as that sounds.

[kirin]

yes matt by the time he has got that far the beams are already restored really he should cry off as he doesnt need to get to the tower after the beams are safe

[Cuthbert Heath]

do u think that now that he has the horn ,if we read the whole series again things will change and roland will finally be able to resti hope so..

[Letti]

do u think that now that he has the horn ,if we read the whole series again things will change and roland will finally be able to resti hope so..

Books that change in your own hands as you are rereading them.. sounds like something we should invent.

[Leithian]

I just finished also. Read the whole lot in about 3 weeks. I did not read anything but the Dark Tower books though so I'm sure I missed some of the tie in info.

My personal take is in Rolands world, that has moved on, people live under the presumption that Ka is the be all and end all. Roland believes he is destined to complete a task, (I believe his task to be death). His path will be what it will be, unable to shape its destiny himself.

I think what his ka-tet from other worlds bring is a sense of realisation that life isnt as black and white as that. That there is choice. By making the right choices he can alter outcomes.

We already know that in all worlds but 19 time is not a factor, and even then Jake still exists in other worlds after he dies in world 19. This means that anyone who dies potentially gets a "do over" until their piece of the puzzle is complete.

I guess we are to think that until the point where Roland doesnt grab the horn, he has completed that part of the puzzle correctly. What part the horn had to play only SK knows. I would hazzard a guess that if you delve into the legends of King Arthur and Excalibur you might find some answers, or at least an idea.

Personally I think that Roland went wrong when he put his quest above his concern for the lives of others. So in my version he would have re entered his own story right back when he sacrifices his bird David to advance his destiny.

Rolands world is obviously a future after some kind of nuclear war or something of similar devistating effect. I assume that in some way his world is what will become of all worlds if the balance isnt restored. His world appear to be the most advanced along in time as we never see the ka tet go forward in time only back. I am also assuming, as MR King is an integral part of the balance of things, that time before his conception is no longer accessable. Perhaps it was once before he became a key part of the puzzle.

I liken the different worlds to time theory, where all possible outcomes create a parallel world. For example I go left in world 1 and right in world 2. I think the time lines are able to rejoin when enough events in the different versions of things colaborate. This would then lead to situations where people have slightly different recollections of the past as maybe they were concious of a slightly different time line up until that point.

I think the rose represents the beginning of things and the tower is the end. Rolond is questing to end. He cant end until he completes his part of things.

We can assume I think that each cycle he will experience some kind of De Ja Vu which helps him to make the right choices based on previous mistakes. I think the characters strong in the touch have lived their part more times than Roland and hense have a better recollection of what to doand are closer to their end.

Wow this got long fast...Perhaps I should break it down heh

[Jean]

dear friends,

thank you very much for your contribution, your thoughts are very important and very interesting! Please look around, I am sure you will find specific threads where the points you have made are being discussed; if you don't, feel free to start a thread on whatever particular quesion or concept interests you!

[Jon]

dear friends,

thank you very much for your contribution, your thoughts are very important and very interesting! Please look around, I am sure you will find specific threads where the points you have made are being discussed; if you don't, feel free to start a thread on whatever particular quesion or concept interests you!

Yes. Searching around the site for a discussion in which you participate (instead of making a new thread) has two latent effects:

1. You find interesting titles and wander into those threads.

2. You post in the afore mentioned threads and we get to know one another better.

[CyberGhostface]

Hi, I'm working on the Randall Flagg article on Wikipedia and some of these need citing. I was wondering if anyone who had the books nearby and/or memorized stuff could help. If it requires a lot of work, don't bother, I'll try getting them from the library or my personal collection.

All I need is the page number and the edition. Everything else I can do on my own.

1. When Flagg is called The Dark Man (The Stand?)
2. When Flagg is called The Ageless Stranger (The Stand/Dark Tower?)
3. When Flagg is called a quasi-immortal wizard. dt vii spoiler:

Spoiler:

(After Mordred Poopingpants eats him in DT7)

4. Walter's flashback appearance in Wizard and Glass.
5. Walter's flashback appearance in Song of Susannah.

[Bev Vincent]

1) First line of Chapter 23
2) Never in The Stand; The Gunslinger part 5, the man in black mentions the ageless stranger
3) Page 174 of the US hardcover edition. Chapter III: The Shining Wire, part One
4) Chapter IV (Roland and Cuthbert) section 13 is where he first appears
5) Walter doesn't really appear in SoS, except as part of Mia's story. He appears in Father C's story in WotC in section eighteen of Chapter IX: The Priest's Tale Concluded