Finished the last book and have one more question: In the "happily-ever-after" ending to the final book, how is Jake alive? I understand Eddie, but Jake died in the Keystone world, which would mean he's dead in all worlds. Or am I misunderstanding something?
I added something about this on another thread. In the first instance, dead in the Keystone World does not mean dead in all worlds. There are numerous examples of situations where what happened in the Keystone World (namely deaths such as JFK) didn't happen elsewhere. The keystone world is the one where time runs only forward. However that is not hugely important. In the end of the book, there is a line that mentions the "barely glimpsed glamour of the beam". Previously "glamour" is used exclusively to describe an illusion of sorts. My interpretation is that the World Suzanne went to was somehow created for her by the beam (as an illusion of reality), perhaps in thanks for their efforts. The consciousnesses of Eddie and Jake starts to merge from the versions we know.Originally Posted by j-buck
I don't think you can't really look further into it as after all this is just fiction, however to me this is King saying 'here is a reward for their efforts'. Regardless of whether it is technically "real" is irrelevant; they got to live together. Of course they would also be propelled back in some sense with Roland (as evidenced by the line where Suzanne thinks this has all happened before), but that's a debate for a different thread.
I don't think that it means he's dead in all the worlds, there can be multiple versions of people living in different worlds, such as Jack Andolini who died in the drawing of the three on the beach, but is back alive and well later in another world. Enrico Balazar exists in multiple different worlds too, a lot of people do. Dying in the keystone world does not mean that all the different versions of you that may be alive in other worlds automatically die as well. It just means that you are dead there.
The only real difference in the keystone world is that you can not go back to a different time of it, when something happens there it's done, and you can't go back to a point before it happened. Also Jake died in the keystone world before anyway, when he was pushed infront of the car by Jack Mort. I hope this helps answer your question.
I was trying to figure this out. I am in a re-read right at the moment. I have read the first 3-4 books many many times but the last 3 books only once. So I am currently on SOS for my second time and finished Calla for my second time. In Calla when Eddie and Jake go todash and follow Jake on his walk around NY there are certain things that are different then when he did it the first time. I was assuming that because they were in the Keystone world at that time the differences were because Jake is NOT originally from the keystone world.
It gets really confusing haha, I think you are right about him not being originally from the keystone world, but I can't remember exactly. The original Jake who Roland let drop wasn't from the keystone world because he was from the same world as Susannah wasn't he? Only in a different time - and I remember her not being from the keystone world. The Jake who came back into the story later though, was he not from the keystone world? He was from the world with the rose in the vacant lot, and I thought that was the keystone world? I don't know, I would need to think for quite a while, and look the books back upI was trying to figure this out. I am in a re-read right at the moment. I have read the first 3-4 books many many times but the last 3 books only once. So I am currently on SOS for my second time and finished Calla for my second time. In Calla when Eddie and Jake go todash and follow Jake on his walk around NY there are certain things that are different then when he did it the first time. I was assuming that because they were in the Keystone world at that time the differences were because Jake is NOT originally from the keystone world.some of that other-world/time/multiple versions of people stuff is really confusing.
I'm going to begin a "Rehab Re-Read"!!! LOL
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
OOooo. A TV reality series!!
All that's left of what we were is what we have become.
Spoiler:
Good point. I never considered that issue in my own reconciliation. Since I am currently re-reading the books I'll reserve comment until I finish. Interesting, though in my own theories Mid-World w/Roland some how exists outside of reality.
I'll be back, as Arnold says!!
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
Yeah my belief was simply "Roland being the last of the line of Eld is unique, and holy in the eyes of Gan and can't fail in his quest." I suppose that adds to the tragedy of his character and what must befall him again and again. By all means report back please! And enjoy your re-read!
...and please return your tray to it's upright position."
All that's left of what we were is what we have become.
***Spoilers for the entire series follow***
I just finished book 7. I have to ask: Why Roland? All of the good people and even the horrendous people eventually die and enter the clearing in these stories. At least that can be assumed. So why is Roland doomed to repeat the cycle? It almost seems like hell.
Also, who left the food for the ka-tet after they left the palace of Oz?
Finally, If Walter hated Roland so much, why did he palaver with him? Why didn’t he kill Roland on the numerous occasions he had a chance to? It was proven that Roland's guns were useless against him
***End of Spoilers***'
I would have searched the forum but even after 8 months I still don't have "permission to access" that page.
You need to have "5" posts to qualify for full member privileges. It's an "Anit-Spam" thing. Get to 5 posts and the site is totally open to you.
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
Now that I have finished the series I plan to be more active here. Thank you for the information.You need to have "5" posts to qualify for full member privileges. It's an "Anit-Spam" thing. Get to 5 posts and the site is totally open to you.
Answering one of the questions: Walter left them the food. I never understood why, but it was him. There was even a note nearby with the "RF" signature indicating that they should go to Thunderclap.
Oh duh. Good call. My bad. Thank you for the memory refresh. So I guess that can get added to the end of the questions on my last line pertaining to Walter. Hmmmm.Answering one of the questions: Walter left them the food. I never understood why, but it was him. There was even a note nearby with the "RF" signature indicating that they should go to Thunderclap.
hello everyone ! I just finished DT series so I m brand New here !
***************SPOILERS*******************
To Samel :
From what I understood Roland is doomed to repeat the cycle because of his OBSSESSION with the Tower and the numerous people he chose to sacrifice in order to get there...He actually fix the beam and the crimson king is trapped so he cannot cause any more pain without Roland and despite all that he takes the risk to go to the tower
If I remember correctly he has this same talk with the TET CORPORATIOn (why do you need to pursue the quest ? daughter of moses carver asks him because you already fixed the beam and saved the tower.
The main point is that even when he is about to enter the tower he is still obssesed with her and even when he says the names of all his friends and family that died in the process it is written their "names come form HIS HEART but he his head is turned to the tower" (it's not the exact quote sorry)
Bottom line is he does not value people life and Love more than his obession for the tower and that is why somehow he is also doomed : he cannot see past his own obsession and he is given chances to redeem himself each time and maybe the next one is the good one
Sorry english is not my first language
no trends big trends
hey everyone !
I had a question with some minor spoiler
Spoiler:
thank you
Welcome to the site!
Your English is okay. I understood you..., mostly.
Roland definitely has some issues that he's been working on for a while.
He needed the Horn of Eld to enter the Tower. It seems that he is getting closer since at the end (beginning?) he has the horn. That says to me that he has a better chance the next time around.
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
I have a different take on this. He doesn't need the horn to enter the tower -- clearly, since he entered the tower without it.
Having the horn in his possession is a sign that he is at least slightly less obsessed with his mission. It would only take him a second to pause and pick it up, but in this quest he was so single-minded of focus that little else mattered. He was willing to sacrifice Jake -- that's the biggest indicator of his obsession with his goal. Maybe the next time (or the next+x time), he'll find a way to succeed without sacrificing his friends.
My opinion has always been that he doesn't need to enter the tower. That's his hubris. I think he needs to save it and then walk away. Then he'll be saved.
Author of The Road to the Dark Tower, Stephen King: A Complete Exploration of His Work, Life, and Influences and The Dark Tower Companion. Co-editor with Stephen King of the anthology Flight or Fright.
The thread title mentions spoilers. So you don't need to use spoiler tags in this thread.
The world has moved on, so we don't know anything for sure.
It does seem to be a version of North America. We don't know what happened to the rest of the world.
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
My mistake, the top of the tower. I was under the impression that to end his quest and gain redemption he needed the horn. I assumed he needed it to go through the Roland door and successfully end his quest in some way.
I see your point though. By having the horn it shows that he is a little more caring and a little less obsessed. I like the idea that his redemption is gained by walking away.
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
Thank you guys for the answers !
To Brian: Glad you understood "mostly"
Hey guys Do you think that King had that ending in mind from the very begining ? I was wondering because The gunslinger edition I read is the new edition with all the corrections (from 2003) and in the 2 first pages before the story starts you have "19" and "Eternal Return". So my question is : are there similar titles in the first edition of the Gunslinger with such obvious clues ?
Hello! I am brand new to the forum, and am reading through the series for the first time. I'm 300 pages into Book 7, so I'm almost there.
I just had a quick question. I'm trying to figure out the first time we hear about The Crimson King. I know there's an allusion to him during Roland and Walter's palaver in the revised version of The Gunslinger. But was he mentioned at all before Wizard and Glass in either book 2 or 3? Maybe this isn't an important question but I'd like to know.
Thanks!
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