King Catalog - Naming Convention

[Patrick]

In reviewing the Catalog index, I think maybe the titles should be cleaned up and standardized a bit more before we do much autolinking. What do you think, Jerome (and anyone else)?

_____________________________________
HERE ARE THE CURRENT ENTRY NAMES IN THE KING CATALOG
Comment in the thread and we'll discuss new names (in a different color or italics or something) for easy reference and discussion before making changes in the actual Catalog.

'

* 'Salem's Lot-Gift Edition
* 'Salem's Lot-Illustrated Edition
* 'Salem's Lot-Slipcased Signed Numbered 1/380
* 'Salem's Lot-Trade Hardback First Edition, with Third State dust jacket
* 'Salem's Lot-Traycased Signed Numbered 1/25

A

* Advanced Reading Copy Editions

B

* Bag of Bones-Trade Hardback
* Black House / The Talisman Gift Edition-Two Volumes slipcased. 3,500 signed numbered
* Black House-Trade Hardback
* Black House-Traycased. No Dustjacket. Signed Numbered 1/1,500
* Blaze-Octavo Trade Hardback
* Building the King catalog

C

* Carrie-Octavo Trade First Edition
* Cell-Trade First Edition
* Christine-1/1,000
* Christine-Trade First Edition
* Creepshow-Trade Paperback First Edition
* Cujo-Numbered 1/750
* Cujo-Trade First Edition
* Cycle of the Werewolf-Oversized Trade Hardback
* Cycle of the Werewolf-Presentation State
* Cycle of the Werewolf-Trade paperback

D

* Danse Macabre-Numbered 1/250
* Danse Macabre-Trade First Edition
* Desperation-Gift edition
* Desperation-Signed Numbered 1/2,050
* Desperation-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Different Seasons-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Dolan's Cadillac-Lettered 1/26
* Dolan's Cadillac-Numbered 1/1,000
* Dolan's Cadillac-Presentation copy of 1/250
* Dolores Claiborne-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Dreamcatcher-Trade Hardback First Edition

E

* Everything's Eventual-Trade Hardback First Edition

F

* Faithful-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Firestarter-Signed Lettered 1/26
* Firestarter-Signed Limited 1/725 numbered
* Firestarter-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Four Past Midnight-Trade Hardback First Edition
* From a Buick 8- Lettered 1/52
* From a Buick 8-Gift edition
* From a Buick 8-Trade Hardback First Edition
* From a Buick 8-Traycased Signed Numbered 1/750

G

* Gerald's Game-Advanced reading copy, with cardboard slipcase, no dustjacket
* Gerald's Game-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Gift Editions

H

* Hearts in Atlantis-Trade Hardback First edition


I

* Insomnia-Gift edition
* Insomnia-Signed Numbered 1/1,250 In Clamshell traycase
* Insomnia-Trade Hardback First Edition
* IT--German Bootleg Edition-Slicased Unsigned 1/250
* IT-Trade Hardback First Edition

L

* Lisey's Story-Trade Hardback First Edition

M

* Misery-Trade Hardback First Edition
* My Pretty Pony-1/280 Unnumbered
* My Pretty Pony-Slip cased trade Hardback First Edition

N

* Needful Things- Trade Hardback First Edition
* Night Shift-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Nightmares & Dreamscapes-Trade Hardback First Edition

O

* On Writing-Trade Hardback First Edition

P

* Pet Semetery-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Presentation Editions

R

* Rage-Paperback First Edition First Printing
* Roadwork-Paperback First Edition First Printing
* Rose Madder-Trade Hardback First Edition

S

* Secret Windows-Book of the Month Club. Trade Hardback
* Signed, Numbered or Lettered Editions
* Six Stories-Paperbound Signed Numbered 1/1,100
* Skeleton Crew-Numbered 1/1,000 Slipcased
* Skeleton Crew-Presentation Copy 1/17
* Skeleton Crew-Publishers Personal "Check" Copy 1/1
* Skeleton Crew-Trade Hardback First edition
* Song of Susannah-Gift edition
* Song of Susannah-Slipcased. 1/1,400 numbered
* Song of Susannah-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Stephen King- Trade Hardback (Collection)
* Storm of the Century- Trade Paperback First Edition

T

* The Bachman Books-Trade Hardback
* The Colorado Kid-Paperback. First Edition
* The Colorado Kid-Signed Artist Edition.1/999
* The Colorado Kid-Slipcased Signed Limited Edition.1/150-Edward Miller
* The Colorado Kid-Slipcased Signed Limited Edition.1/150-Glenn Chadbourne
* The Colorado Kid-Slipcased Signed Limited Edition.1/150-J.K. Potter
* The Colorado Kid-Trade Hardback Illustrated Edition
* The Colorado Kid-Traycased Edition 1/33-Glenn Chadbourne
* The Colorado Kid-Traycased. 1/33- Edward Miller
* The Colorado Kid-Traycased. 1/33-J.K. Potter
* The Dark Half-Trade First Edition
* The Dark Tower-Gift Edition
* The Dark Tower-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Dark Tower-Two Volumes slipcased. 1/1,500 numbered
* The Dead Zone-Trade Hardback unsigned
* The Dead Zone-Trade hardback. First Edition
* The Drawing of the Three-New Introduction by King


T (cont.)

* The Drawing of the Three-Slipcased Signed Limited 1/850
* The Drawing of the Three-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Drawing of the Three-Trade Hardback Second Edition
* The Eyes of the Dragon-Numbered 1/1,000
* The Eyes of the Dragon-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon-First Edition Trade
* The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon-Slipcased Signed Numbered 1/125
* The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon-Trade hardback with dustjacket
* The Green Mile-6 issues. Small paperback
* The Green Mile-6 Volumes Slipcased. Signed Numbered 1/148
* The Green Mile-Gift Edition. 6 Volumes Slipcased. Unsigned
* The Green Mile-Hardback
* The Green Mile-Lettered Edition 6 Volumes Traycased
* The Gunslinger (Revised)-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Gunslinger-Hardback First Edition, Third printing
* The Gunslinger-Lettered/Numbered
* The Gunslinger-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Gunslinger-Trade Hardback Second Edition
* The King Catalog
* The Long Walk-Paperback First Edition
* The New Lieutenant's Rap-Chapbook.Signed 1/500
* The Plant-Chapbook
* The Regulators-Lettered 1/52
* The Regulators-Signed Numbered 1/500
* The Regulators-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Running Man-Paperback First Edition First Printing
* The Secretary of Dreams-Gift Edition unsigned
* The Secretary of Dreams-Traycased Signed Numbered
* The Shining-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Stand Complete and Uncut-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Stand-Signed Limited Numbered 1/1,250
* The Stand-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Talisman-Deluxe trade edition. Two volumes slip cased
* The Talisman-Numbered 1/1,200
* The Talisman-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Tommyknockers-Trade Hardback First Edition
* The Waste Lands-New Introduction by King
* The Waste Lands-Numbered, slipcased, Signed Limited 1/1,250
* The Waste Lands-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Thinner-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Trade Hardback First Editions
* Trade Paperback First Editions

U

* Umney's Last Case-Mass market pocket paperback

W

* Wizard & Glass-New Introduction by King
* Wizard & Glass-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Wizard and Glass-Signed Numbered 1/1,250
* Wolves of the Calla-Gift edition
* Wolves of the Calla-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Wolves of the Calla-Two Volumes slipcased. 1/1,350 numbered

[Matt]

The names of the books in the catalog are simply the posted name plus the posted state. It was the only way to organize the same book with a different state efficiently.

I am open to an idea on how to make it better

[Randall Flagg]

In reviewing the Catalog index, I think maybe the titles should be cleaned up and standardized a bit more before we do much autolinking. What do you think, Jerome (and anyone else)?

Yes, and no. We may have to be careful that we don't shorten a books name and then it match exacly a name in the Towerpedia. Right now that is only The Dark Tower-but is the intention later to have every Tower book, and any King book that ties in listed in the Towerpedia? I don't know, but it would make things tough if we changed " [AUTOLINK]Insomnia-Trade Hardback First Edition[/AUTOLINK] " (which I agree is too long) to "Insomnia" and later on wanted to list the book with a synopsis-or Tower tie in and either couldn't, or have to go back and change again.
Matt, now that you have crossed referenced the titles to Trade Firsts, Signed etc, would it be tough-if provided a list of before and after changes to shorten a lot of the titles?

Here is an example of the "B's""

Before:

Bag of Bones-Trade Hardback
Black House / The Talisman Gift Edition-Two Volumes slipcased. 3,500 signed numbered
Black House-Trade Hardback
Black House-Traycased. No Dustjacket. Signed Numbered 1/1,500
Blaze-Octavo Trade Hardback

After:
Bag of Bones
Blackhouse/Talisman Gift Edition
Blackhouse
Blackhouse S/L
Blaze

[Matt]

For example, the original S/L edition of The Talisman has artwork from many artists while the more recent Gift Slipcased edition has more recent artwork all of which is from Rick Berry.

This is why it is so important that we create a naming convention that makes sense and will visually separate them for the members.

I am going to start a thread in there to show you guys how to do it but I am not sure how that separation should happen.

[Matt]

In reviewing the Catalog index, I think maybe the titles should be cleaned up and standardized a bit more before we do much autolinking. What do you think, Jerome (and anyone else)?

Yes, and no. We mat have to be careful that we don't shorten a books name and then it match exacly a name in the Towerpedia. Right now that is only The Dark Tower-but is the intention later to have every Tower book, and any King book that ties in listed in the Towerpedia? I don't know, but it would make things tough if we changed "Insomnia-Trade Hardback First Edition " (which I agree is too long) to "Insomnia" and later on wanted to list the book with a synopsis-or Tower tie in and either couldn't, or have to go back and change again.
Matt, now that you have crossed referenced the titles to Trade Firsts, Signed etc, would it be tough-if provided a list of before and after changes to shorten a lot of the titles?

Here is an example of the "B's""

Before:

Bag of Bones-Trade Hardback
Black House / The Talisman Gift Edition-Two Volumes slipcased. 3,500 signed numbered
Black House-Trade Hardback
Black House-Traycased. No Dustjacket. Signed Numbered 1/1,500
Blaze-Octavo Trade Hardback

After:
Bag of Bones
Blackhouse/Talisman Gift Edition
Blackhouse
Blackhouse S/L
Blaze

That would be fine because they are divided by book but what we have to be careful of is the over all list on the main page. If we can seperate the titles the way you did Black House there, it would work great.

To change titles in the catalog, just click on the article and then use the "article tools" drop down at the top right. Go to "edit article" and you should be able to change the name there.

I am totally fine with making them different because I was basically flying by the seat of my pants while doing it.

Another option is to do away with the main list and only list the entries by "state". Meaning, we wouldn't have to have "S/L" on the end of the title because it would be in the "signed/limited" book. So a person would never be confused between "black houses" that way.

[Randall Flagg]

I'd like to wait and hear other thoughts before doing anything. This should be able to wait a day or so.

[Matt]

I think that's a good idea and the cool part about this is that its easy to change and never written in stone.

[Patrick]

Great discussion, guys.

My thoughts:
1. Actual book titles should not be shortened.
2. Catalog book entry titles should be standardized with an eye for shortening the entry title.

RF gives a great example in his post above:
"Black House-Traycased. No Dustjacket. Signed Numbered 1/1,500"
could be shortened to:
"Black House - S/L"

All the additional detail info is in the actual entry, so it doesn't need to be in the entry title. All other signed/limited book entries could be standardized as well.

I think that perhaps we should keep the "Trade Hardcover" in the entry titles to allow for later expansion into other versions as well, or maybe we should be more descriptive by identifying the edition and printing (1st/1st, etc.)

Thoughts?

[Patrick]

Perhaps we should come up with a standard form and a list of standard terms for the editions to use in the book entry titles.

For a standard format, I recommend:
Book Title dash Edition Standard Term
For example: Black House - S/L

Also, do we use numbers or words for printings (when needed)?
For example:
The Gunslinger - First Edition/First Printing
or
The Gunslinger - 1st Edition/1st Printing
or
The Gunslinger - 1st/1st

(Matt, can we even use the slash mark in entry titles?)

Personally I don't think we ever have to use the word "edition" in any of the book entry titles, that we are talking about different editions is understood.

As far as standard terms for editions, I'll start a list. Please add to the list (by copy-and-paste and then add on your own) and also comment or recommend something better, the list isn't set in stone. If any of these are unclear to collectors, then they suck and should be replaced. Here goes:

Standard Terms List (draft)

Lettered
S/L
Gift
Artist
1st/1st, 1st/2nd, etc.

[Patrick]

...Another option is to do away with the main list and only list the entries by "state". Meaning, we wouldn't have to have "S/L" on the end of the title because it would be in the "signed/limited" book. So a person would never be confused between "black houses" that way.

I've given this idea some thought. I'm not wholly against it, but personally I love being able to see everything at once on the main index page. For some reason it makes me happy.

[Matt]

For me, this should be wholly decided by the collectors involved. I mostly want it to be the best and easiest to read that it can be.

[Randall Flagg]

I like the naming convention, but can think of a few that fall outside those descriptions. Some, not all of them are:
The Colorado Kid Traycased/Potter/Miller/Chadbourne
The Colorado Kid Slipcased/Potter/Miller/Chadbourne
"Salem's Lot S/L Slipcased
'Salem's Lot S/L Traycased
'Salem's Lot Goatskin

If no one else wants to do it, I could draft a suggested title listing and post it here. I would with a few minor cahnges use what Patrick has suggested. People could review and make suggestions. Once finalized, then we can edit the titles.

[Matt]

That sounds great to me Jerome. They kept getting longer when I was doing it as I found stuff that didn't fit.

I would say you and Patrick decide how it should be and go for it.

[Patrick]

Yes, I agree that some books will fall outside the standard and will be custom named because of that. Colorado Kid S/Ls being an excellent example.

Question: You referenced 'Salem's Lot S/L Traycased. Is that the Lettered edition or the limited gift edition.

I would just use the terms "Slipcase" or "Traycase" in the revised entry titles - it's the noun instead of the verb, but it's shorter.

Rather than reproducing the entire book list here, I think we should come up with the primary standard terms and just go for it in terms of renaming the entries. Any unusual editions can be discussed here as needed. ... I just re-read Jerome's post and realized you offered to do the list. If you want to go that route, great, it just seems like a lot of extra work on your part. Then again, it'll probably save steps later.

[Randall Flagg]

The traycased version of 'Salem's Lot was Roman Numbered I-XXV and the Slipcased version was Arabic numbered 1-380. The gift edition was not traycased or slipcased.

I thought about maikng the list and posting it, that way changes to the list could be made upon approved suggestion, then once and hopefully only once would the edits have to be made to the Catalog titles.

[Matt]

I think that could be very useful. You could put it in the first post of this thread imo (if its okay with Patrick)

Then you guys could agree on each and take suggestions.

[Patrick]

If you want to go to the work of making a list, we'll check it twice. Matt will decide if we're naughty or nice.

Put the list wherever you feel appropriate - addendum to my first post certainly makes sense so feel free.

EDIT: I went ahead and copied the entire existing index into the first post above.

[Patrick]

Just to get the discussion started with real examples, here are the first few books in the index and some suggestions to discuss and change as appropriate:
__________________

'

* 'Salem's Lot-Gift Edition
* 'Salem's Lot - Gift

* 'Salem's Lot-Illustrated Edition
* 'Salem's Lot - Illustrated Trade HC

* 'Salem's Lot-Slipcased Signed Numbered 1/380
* 'Salem's Lot - S/L Slipcase

* 'Salem's Lot-Trade Hardback First Edition, with Third State dust jacket
* 'Salem's Lot - Trade 1st Ed. w/ 3rd State DJ (?)

* 'Salem's Lot-Traycased Signed Numbered 1/25
* 'Salem's Lot - S/L Traycase

B

* Bag of Bones-Trade Hardback
* Bag of Bones - Trade HC, 1st/1st

* Black House / The Talisman Gift Edition-Two Volumes slipcased. 3,500 signed numbered
* Black House / The Talisman - S/L Gift Set

* Black House-Trade Hardback
* Black House - Trade HC

* Black House-Traycased. No Dustjacket. Signed Numbered 1/1,500
* Black House - S/L

* Blaze-Octavo Trade Hardback
* Blaze - Trade HC, 1st/1st, Octavo

C

* Carrie-Octavo Trade First Edition
* Carrie - Trade 1st Ed., Octavo

* Cell-Trade First Edition
* Cell - Trade HC, 1st Ed.

* Christine-1/1,000
* Christine - S/L

* Christine-Trade First Edition
* Christine - Trade HC, 1st/1st

* Creepshow-Trade Paperback First Edition
* Creepshow - Trade PB 1st/1st

* Cujo-Numbered 1/750
* Cujo - S/L

* Cujo-Trade First Edition
* Cujo - Trade HC, 1st/1st

* Cycle of the Werewolf-Oversized Trade Hardback
* Cycle of the Werewolf - Trade HC Oversized

* Cycle of the Werewolf-Presentation State
* Cycle of the Werewolf - Presentation State

* Cycle of the Werewolf-Trade paperback
* Cycle of the Werewolf - Trade PB

[Randall Flagg]

Ok, let's just work with that list to start. I'll post my suggestions-and supporting comments. I am attempting to post my suggestions/thoughts in red font.

* 'Salem's Lot-Gift Edition
* 'Salem's Lot - Gift

* 'Salem's Lot-Illustrated Edition
* 'Salem's Lot - Illustrated Trade HC

* 'Salem's Lot-Slipcased Signed Numbered 1/380
* 'Salem's Lot - S/L Slipcase

* 'Salem's Lot-Trade Hardback First Edition, with Third State dust jacket
* 'Salem's Lot - Trade 1st Ed. w/ 3rd State DJ (?)
* 'Salems Lot-Trade HC

Unless/untill we have images of the different dustjackets we can leave the DJ clarification in the description itself.-Also for all trade hardcovers, unless described otherwise, can we presume they are all 1st editions?

* 'Salem's Lot-Traycased Signed Numbered 1/25
* 'Salem's Lot - S/L Traycase



B

* Bag of Bones-Trade Hardback
* Bag of Bones - Trade HC, 1st/1st
* Bag of Bones - Trade HC

* Black House / The Talisman Gift Edition-Two Volumes slipcased. 3,500 signed numbered
* Black House / The Talisman - S/L Gift Set

The Talisman preceded Blackhouse. Grant Books calls this book "Talisman/Blackhouse Gift set". We should either change it or have it listed both ways

* Black House-Trade Hardback
* Black House - Trade HC

* Black House-Traycased. No Dustjacket. Signed Numbered 1/1,500
* Black House - S/L

* Blaze-Octavo Trade Hardback
* Blaze - Trade HC, 1st/1st, Octavo
* Blaze - Trade HC

Octavo only refers to the fact the book is smaller than your standard trade-since it is described as such in the description, that should suffice.

C

* Carrie-Octavo Trade First Edition
* Carrie - Trade 1st Ed., Octavo
* Carrie - Trade HC

See support for Blaze

* Cell-Trade First Edition
* Cell - Trade HC, 1st Ed.
* Cell - Trade HC

* Christine-1/1,000
* Christine - S/L

* Christine-Trade First Edition
* Christine - Trade HC, 1st/1st
* Christine - Trade HC

* Creepshow-Trade Paperback First Edition
* Creepshow - Trade PB 1st/1st
* Creepshow - Trade PB

* Cujo-Numbered 1/750
* Cujo - S/L

* Cujo-Trade First Edition
* Cujo - Trade HC, 1st/1st
* Cujo - Trade HC

* Cycle of the Werewolf-Oversized Trade Hardback
* Cycle of the Werewolf - Trade HC Oversized


* Cycle of the Werewolf-Presentation State
* Cycle of the Werewolf - Presentation State
* Cycle of the Werewolf - S/L PC

Not sure on this one

* Cycle of the Werewolf-Trade paperback
* Cycle of the Werewolf - Trade PB

[Patrick]

I agree with all of your suggestions.

That 1st/1st stuff is going to get all cluttery. I was already tired of it by the time I posted all that.

The Gunslinger will be a good example of when we would use 1st/1st and 1st/2nd, yes?

I like "S/L PC" for that edition of Werewolf.

To be honest, I had no idea what "octavo" meant.

Good catch on the goatskin 'Salem's Lot that's missing an entry.

[Randall Flagg]

Actually I screwed up on the "Goatskin 'Salem's Lot"-it is there-it's the traycased version. The 1/1 I mentioned is the Skeleton Crew (we aren't that far yet).
I deleted my mistaken assertion.

[Patrick]

Sounds good.

[Patrick]

After Jerome and I chatted a bit tonight...

1. All the changes for "'" through "C" have been made in the Catalog. Hopefully you can see how much cleaner and uniform the index is going to look when this is complete.

2. Matt needs to tell us how have the cross-references indices match the new entry titles.

3. We would like to combine or discard certain cross-reference indices. Jerome to elaborate tomorrow.

4. We need to add another entry for the BH/Talisman gift set under "T" as well as "B", so that anyone looking for all the Talisman editions doesn't miss this two volume set.

5. On to the letter "D" and beyond tomorrow.

[Patrick]

Ok, I took care of E and H in the Catalog because they had only one easy entry each:

E

* Everything's Eventual-Trade Hardback First Edition
* Everything's Eventual - Trade HC


H

* Hearts in Atlantis-Trade Hardback First edition
* Hearts in Atlantis - Trade HC

[Matt]

2. Matt needs to tell us how have the cross-references indices match the new entry titles.

I read this line about 3 times and I'm still not sure what you are asking Patrick.

However, I checked out the catalog and it looks GREAT! Reading the last few posts reinforces the idea in my mind that I was the wrong person doing this.