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Thread: The Walking Dead *TV Spoilers!*

  1. #3076
    Going Slap Happy Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick's Avatar

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    Rick and Co have done far worse things than The Saviors, who, up until the conflict actually started, killed 6 (Denise, Abe, Glenn, Spencer, Olivia, Benjamin) people. In the same time frame, Rick not only stormed their compound for their own benefit (basically taking over The Saviors deal with Hilltop) and began murdering them in their sleep, and then Carol lured some in and burned them alive, and then she killed another five or six of them, all in all upwards of 30 people. All in all, Rick and Co have ZERO moral superiority over The Saviors. Keeping the prisoners is part of them coming out of this not just as victors, but having done it without becoming The Saviors. And now you know Jesus since this action defines his character. He doesn't want anymore people to die than have to die, and he knows you can't just win in this conflict, you have to win like the good guys. What's funny is when he said to Morgan "Once this is over, once we've won. Those who are left over, we have to live with them", is actually what Negan tells ol Rapey Dave in the comics before he kills him. By your own logic, Negan should have killed every single person in the line up, then should have went into Alexandria and burned it and everyone alive, for all the bad things Rick and Co did to his people, so they wouldn't retaliate like they are right now.
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  2. #3077
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    The issue of enslavement is not addressed in the above. Negan and all his followers have used forceful and deadly actions to enslave these communities. The reason Negan lets people live is not because he has good intentions it is because he wants their shit and he wants them to continue providing their shit to him. They can't do that if they are dead.

    The killing of Saviors is the only option unless these communities want to give up their homes and move.

  3. #3078
    Those who cling to life; Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Rick and Co have done far worse things than The Saviors, who, up until the conflict actually started, killed 6 (Denise, Abe, Glenn, Spencer, Olivia, Benjamin) people. In the same time frame, Rick not only stormed their compound for their own benefit (basically taking over The Saviors deal with Hilltop) and began murdering them in their sleep, and then Carol lured some in and burned them alive, and then she killed another five or six of them, all in all upwards of 30 people. All in all, Rick and Co have ZERO moral superiority over The Saviors. Keeping the prisoners is part of them coming out of this not just as victors, but having done it without becoming The Saviors. And now you know Jesus since this action defines his character. He doesn't want anymore people to die than have to die, and he knows you can't just win in this conflict, you have to win like the good guys. What's funny is when he said to Morgan "Once this is over, once we've won. Those who are left over, we have to live with them", is actually what Negan tells ol Rapey Dave in the comics before he kills him. By your own logic, Negan should have killed every single person in the line up, then should have went into Alexandria and burned it and everyone alive, for all the bad things Rick and Co did to his people, so they wouldn't retaliate like they are right now.
    Yes, that's exactly my point. If I were the Saviors, I would have murdered every single one of them. If you leave one, even just one person alive, they will come back and try to murder you. We're seeing that now. Negan fucked up, he should have bashed all of their heads in.

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  4. #3079
    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Gabriel is working with Negan. Book it.

    Really? You think they would pull that BS with Gabriel again?
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  5. #3080
    Going Slap Happy Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    The issue of enslavement is not addressed in the above. Negan and all his followers have used forceful and deadly actions to enslave these communities. The reason Negan lets people live is not because he has good intentions it is because he wants their shit and he wants them to continue providing their shit to him. They can't do that if they are dead.

    The killing of Saviors is the only option unless these communities want to give up their homes and move.
    Negan and Rick have almost the exact same goals though. They just aim for the same end with different means. Negan's goal is to keep his people alive and use a system of communities to bring back civilization, which he why he calls themselves The Saviors. Rick wants to keep his people alive and use a system of communities to bring back civilization. It's hard to say enslavement is any worse than Rick choosing to exterminate a group of strangers to get half of another community's stuff. It's less a battle of good vs. evil and a battle of two differing ideologies/political systems.

    Mike, glad you feel that way. I totally agree with you. Your post just sounded like many "The Saviors should all be killed because they're evil and Rick is good" posts I've read on the internet a lot. These people can't even see that Rick has done evil or bad things LOL.
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  6. #3081
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    There are some marked differences between the two ideas of civilization and society goals between the two groups. The line does become blurred as Ricks group did use force to obtain the guns from Oceanside however they did not forcibly compel them to join or produce (beyond the guns) for Ricks idea of society. Still awful business stealing from one group to "feed" another groups needs.

    I disagree that Negans primary goal is to keep people alive. His primary goal is to keep people alive up until the point they stop producing for his needs and idea of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post

    Negan and Rick have almost the exact same goals though. They just aim for the same end with different means. Negan's goal is to keep his people alive and use a system of communities to bring back civilization, which he why he calls themselves The Saviors. Rick wants to keep his people alive and use a system of communities to bring back civilization. It's hard to say enslavement is any worse than Rick choosing to exterminate a group of strangers to get half of another community's stuff. It's less a battle of good vs. evil and a battle of two differing ideologies/political systems.

    Mike, glad you feel that way. I totally agree with you. Your post just sounded like many "The Saviors should all be killed because they're evil and Rick is good" posts I've read on the internet a lot. These people can't even see that Rick has done evil or bad things LOL.

  7. #3082
    Those who cling to life; Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Gabriel is working with Negan. Book it.

    Really? You think they would pull that BS with Gabriel again?
    Yes. Yes, I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post

    Mike, glad you feel that way. I totally agree with you. Your post just sounded like many "The Saviors should all be killed because they're evil and Rick is good" posts I've read on the internet a lot. These people can't even see that Rick has done evil or bad things LOL.
    It's all relative. In the Revolutionary War, American citizens were called rebels. They worked in small groups and employed gorilla-like tactics to engage an enemy from another country. Today, they are championed as patriotic heroes.

    Now, fast forward. In Afghanistan, we've been fighting rebels who work in small groups and engage in gorilla-like tactics. If you take it from the perspective from a person living in Afghanistan, we are the ones coming into their country trying to control things. Now, we know there's a lot more that goes into it, but from the perspective of someone living that life who may not have all the information, you can certainly draw the parallels. Again, it's all relative.
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  8. #3083
    Going Slap Happy Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post

    I disagree that Negans primary goal is to keep people alive. His primary goal is to keep people alive up until the point they stop producing for his needs and idea of society.
    You'll learn more of Negan's philosophy as the show goes on. But he became who he did solely to keep people alive because he felt everyone was so weak they were essentially killing themselves. Over time, things got fucked up and he started doing really fucked up things, but his goals were definitely not evil from the get go. He's kind of the opposite of The Governor who had a facade of a nice leader but was really a crazy, murderous fuck in that he's got a facade of being a crazy, murderous fuck but beneath that he's intentions are good (of course, we know the line about bad things coming from good intentions). He could have easily killed all of Rick's people, but he didn't. He sees enough value in life to not want to kill people needlessly. His tactics are to rule with fear so he doesn't have to kill a bunch of people/everyone. Negan rules through a dictatorship, but Rick even once said their group was now a dictatorship led by him...different context. But that's what I like so much about the Negan/Rick dynamic...it's all so morally grey, neither are saints, both have done horrible things, both have brutally murdered to protect their own people, both have similar goals, and they bring the best and worst out of each other.
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  9. #3084
    Those who cling to life; Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant's Avatar

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    I want to learn more about Negan before the world went to shit. I'd like to learn more about a lot of these people. One of my biggest problems with the show in recent years is that some of the characters seem like they materialized out of thin air as zombie killing machines.

    We have to remember that these were normal people. They had normal jobs. As for Negan and his crew, they weren't always wise-cracking, quick-witted villains.
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  10. #3085
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    I agree. That's one reason why I liked the savior Gavin (the guy Ezekiel was dealing with) because he definitely lends some humanity to The Saviors, erring on the side of caution, looking for peaceful resolutions, only going to a route of violence because he absolutely has to. There are rumours we're getting some Negan backstory tomorrow as Negan has a long conversation with Father Gabriel. I haven't read the Here's Negan comic yet, and I don't want to spoil what I know of how he became Negan as we know him after the apocalypse, but as for what he did, he was a High School Gym Teacher. I don't think their jobs are necessarily that important (unless it's something ultra specific like doctor or engineer or something) because not every job will lend particular insight. But what made The Governor compelling is we had Milton to tell us that he wasn't always like this, that he was just a normal guy who had a wife and a daughter, but he went absolutely crazy. I think a lack of a character like that, to tell the audience who they were, can hurt...but we're also a few years into the apocalypse now and such people would naturally be harder to come by.

    It's hard to talk about Negan and his backstory and when and how it should come up with spoilers.
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  11. #3086
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    I really liked this episode. I really liked the little nugget of information with Negan telling Gabriel "You should have see the guy who was running this place before me". I think the guy who ran the place before Negan was whoever ordered the murder of every male in Oceanside, since that never fit Negan's MO. I wonder if that was the incident that cause Negan to kill whoever was leading before and take over.
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  12. #3087
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    I didn't hate the episode and I am "assuming" this will fit into the the overall season very well. Sigmund Fraud would have a field day with Negan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    I really liked this episode. I really liked the little nugget of information with Negan telling Gabriel "You should have see the guy who was running this place before me". I think the guy who ran the place before Negan was whoever ordered the murder of every male in Oceanside, since that never fit Negan's MO. I wonder if that was the incident that cause Negan to kill whoever was leading before and take over.

  13. #3088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Gabriel is working with Negan. Book it.

    Really? You think they would pull that BS with Gabriel again?
    Yes. Yes, I do.
    Called it!

    Anyway, I struggled through this episode. At least the first part. I literally fell asleep during the opening 3 times. That scene could have been dripping with tension if we didn't know that Gregory lived through the meeting.

    I did enjoy the scene with Rick and Daryl, especially since they discussed a lot of what we have talked about here.
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  14. #3089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    I really liked this episode. I really liked the little nugget of information with Negan telling Gabriel "You should have see the guy who was running this place before me". I think the guy who ran the place before Negan was whoever ordered the murder of every male in Oceanside, since that never fit Negan's MO. I wonder if that was the incident that cause Negan to kill whoever was leading before and take over.
    Me too. LOVED the episode and wanted more dirt on the other guy that ran the show. My thing with this show is I always WISHED and PRAYED that they would do the "a'la LOST".... flashbacks would make the Walking Dead so much better. Learning who each person was before the shit hit the fan. FOR ME.. the most important part of the whole show was the chopper flying over Rick.. when was the last time we seen that? I think that says alot about where we are heading. We have seen that scene a few times over the course of all the seasons.
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  15. #3090
    Going Slap Happy Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick has a brilliant future Mattrick's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Gabriel is working with Negan. Book it.

    Really? You think they would pull that BS with Gabriel again?
    Yes. Yes, I do.
    Called it!
    Gabriel isn't working with Negan though.
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  16. #3091
    Those who cling to life; Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Gabriel is working with Negan. Book it.

    Really? You think they would pull that BS with Gabriel again?
    Yes. Yes, I do.
    Called it!
    Gabriel isn't working with Negan though.
    Yeah, I went back and watched it after talking with some friends and I must have been super tired. There was an exchange in the beginning where Negan says, "You done good." I took that as they were working together, but he was referring to Gabriel not wasting bullets.
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  17. #3092
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    Filler and fluff or was there more to this episode?

  18. #3093
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    No, not really. There some some foreshadowing for comics readers, but this was one of those episodes that was just staging, just getting everyone where they need to be for the mid-season finale. A necessary evil when you've got so many pieces to move.
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  19. #3094
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    I thought I was just tired last week, hence the reason I fell asleep 3 times before the opening credits. Apparently, that was not an anomaly. This show is just plain instant zzzzzz for me lately.
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  20. #3095
    Those who cling to life; Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant has a reputation beyond repute Still Servant's Avatar

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    I really hope Rick has a plan here because if he doesn't, Matt is going to have to work overtime defending this shit.

    Also, what's the deal with the "A" that was scrawled on the storage container? I thought we were done with those? Didn't the "A" carvings on the trees lead to Terminus? I thought that was the end of it. Does it mean the Mad Max extras were from Terminus at some point?
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  21. #3096
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    I don't really know what's going on with this show right now. If Rick's plan didn't involve purposely getting taken captive by the people of Trashlandia, I have just about lost hope with these characters.

  22. #3097
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    I have not read the comics but what if Rick is hoping that the trash people clear out the horde at savior town. Then hand him over to the Saviors for the express purpose of providing him with the opportunity to kill Negan face to face. Leading to Ricks group becoming the saviors for the "workers" and ultimately disposing of Negan and gaining a large group of people that actually contribute and not just take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I don't really know what's going on with this show right now. If Rick's plan didn't involve purposely getting taken captive by the people of Trashlandia, I have just about lost hope with these characters.

  23. #3098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girlystevedave View Post
    I don't really know what's going on with this show right now. If Rick's plan didn't involve purposely getting taken captive by the people of Trashlandia, I have just about lost hope with these characters.
    My thoughts exactly!

    The other issue I've had with the show all year is geographics. I really wish they would give us an idea of where these locations are and the distance between them.

    I just don't see the need for them to leave messages in a mailbox. Are they really that spread out? Can't you just swing by and talk face to face? It's just frustrating. Call me old fashioned, but I wanted that one scene where rick rolls out a map and they go over the whole plan.
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  24. #3099
    Demon of the Prim TravelinJack is a name known to all TravelinJack is a name known to all TravelinJack is a name known to all TravelinJack is a name known to all TravelinJack is a name known to all TravelinJack is a name known to all TravelinJack's Avatar

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    This show has spiraled downhill - and yet, I smile.

    Walkers are irrelevant background chatter until they queue up the poor loser that somehow can’t out maneuver the incredibly slow zombie they could have killed 8 times - and yet, I smile.

    They are sparing saviors that clearly are going to cost innocent lives - ones that absolutely would have been killed by Jesus, but had to create a new arc and vulnerability inside the compound - and yet, I smile.

    Daryl never moves his hair out of his eyes - and yet, I smile.

    ——-

    I swear my forehead gets bruised after each episode now. I continue to watch hoping that they’ll tighten things up a bit, but whew it’s getting tough. It’s like if James Patterson came in to finish the last three novels of the Dark Tower.
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  25. #3100
    Live it. webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000 is loved more than Jesus webstar1000's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelinJack View Post
    This show has spiraled downhill - and yet, I smile.

    Walkers are irrelevant background chatter until they queue up the poor loser that somehow can’t out maneuver the incredibly slow zombie they could have killed 8 times - and yet, I smile.

    They are sparing saviors that clearly are going to cost innocent lives - ones that absolutely would have been killed by Jesus, but had to create a new arc and vulnerability inside the compound - and yet, I smile.

    Daryl never moves his hair out of his eyes - and yet, I smile.

    ——-

    I swear my forehead gets bruised after each episode now. I continue to watch hoping that they’ll tighten things up a bit, but whew it’s getting tough. It’s like if James Patterson came in to finish the last three novels of the Dark Tower.
    ?? What was wrong with the last three DT novels?


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