The Walking Dead *TV Spoilers!*

[Mattrick]

I thought this was the strongest episode of the season. It hit so many notes great, and there was some satisfying payoff to long story threads too, not to mention many more coming to a head in the next two episodes. The biggest fault of this show the past two seasons is that they've spent so much time putting so much stuff in place, that they need to stick the landing, and I think they will do it if the next two episodes are as strong as this one.

The Carol/Morgan stuff was great. The parallels between Henry and Sophia for Carol were great, and not only did she take a big step in reclaiming herself after losing herself over the past few seasons, and it was some nice closure for Carol finding Henry alive. The tree Henry was hiding in, I believe, was filmed at the exact same place Sophia was last seen alive. I also liked the call backs to Morgan saving Rick in season 1 and Carol in season 6, and Michonne bringing how Andrea brought her back from grief was a nice touch. I like that Walking Dead right now is looking into the future, with The Helicopter and Georgina last week, plus the envisioning to A New Beginning, while also looking backwards (in more way than Morales, which was a shame).

The Negan/Jadis stuff was well done. Jadis playing dead was very well done. They've done a great job with slowly peeling back the layers that makes Negan such an intriguing character. The Scavengers were so superfluous and unnecessary for All Out War, but using Jadis as a means to foreshadow the future makes them a lot more tolerable in hindsight, and Jadis in two episodes became a character I've really come around on. And Negan picking up someone on the side of the road is how cliffhangers should be done, because it's not a big WTF moment, and we get a little follow up scene after where Negan says to the guard not to tell anyone he's back. It gives fans something to wonder about (Laura, The Savior who knew Dwight was a traitor, seems most likely, but Gregory's whereabouts are also currently unknown), and now we know the Negan/Simon stuff is going to come to a head next episde.

I really like the dichotomy between Rick and Negan. Despite being 'evil', Negan has prove time and time again that he truly does believe people are a resource and they should be kept alive, it's more a problem that his experiences in the apocalypse and made him think his way is the only way. Jadis captures him, and he talks his way out of it not out of self-preservation as much as simply being genuine and connecting with Jadis on a human level, similarly to how he connected with Gabriel in 8a. I liked that he said the same thing he said when killing Abe and Glenn, "I'm sorry this is happening/happened to you. I really truly am sorry." And he his sorry. Negan gave his word to Jadis he'll make it right, and Jadis takes him at his word, and I believe Negan will deliver. Compare that to Rick who in the same episode gives those Saviors his word that he'll bring them back, but then he kills them in cold blood, even The Savior who saved him from a walker. If the roles were reversed with Negan/Rick's people, and Negan gave them his word, I don't believe Negan would murder them and lie.

And it was GREAT to see Jared get a horrible death like he do truly deserved. Whoever plays him was just so easy to hate, that him escaping justice numerous times just made his eventual demise all that much sweeter.

Can't wait for the next episode. And then it's the big night, Season 8 finale/Fear S4 premiere in the same night. Season 4 of Fear looks fantastic with some nice additions to the cast.

[Still Servant]

Agreed.

This episode gave me two things I've been asking for. One was the interaction between Rick and Morgan. These were two of the first characters we were introduced to. Give us a scene where they harken back to their first meeting, which is exactly what they did. Too often this show only shows us the relationship between characters as names on a call sheet. These people have experienced a lot together and it should be referred back to from time to time.

Secondly, they gave us a little more of Negan as a human. I hate how some of these characters seem like they morphed out of the ground when the world went to shit. These are the kinds of character interactions that go a long way.

[Mattrick]

I thought this past episode was really strong too. I like the way they book-eneded it with Rick reading Carl's letter and Michonne reading Carl's letter to Negan. The tension at the Sanctuary was all really well done, with the way Negan set up both Simon and Dwight by letting them think they were off the hook just so they'd show their cards. The shot of Simon on Negan's fence was great. In the preview there was a shot of Dwight in the same prisoner outfit that Daryl was in, and I imagine that will be why Daryl shows Dwight mercy by seeing he truly was on their side all along. The Oceanside stuff with Aaron was deflating, but since it's been quite obvious all season that they'll come in to turn the tide of the battle, I suppose it was necessary, but the entire aside with Oceanside has just been a detriment. Surprisingly, The Scavengers proved to be provide far more interesting contributions to the story despite seeming totally erroneous originally. And we finally got confirmation that Simon was the one who killed all the males at Oceanside, which was evident in the subtext all season. They make it seem like Negan has totally changed his mind so he'll just kill everyone at Hilltop and put an end to it, but deep down I don't think he truly wants to, but now his hand just feels forced, I think.

The Eugene stuff was very strong. The way he escaped from Daryl and Rosita was very well done and very Eugene. And I liked the way he threw that line back at Rosita, though she wasn't there. All she managed to do was reinforce his stance and develop genuine animosity between him and his former people.

I've had a lot of fun arguing with fans that think The Saviors and Negan are pure evil and the heroes are good, no matter what they do. The Eugene thing is a good example. They think the Saviors are evil for say putting Daryl in a dark room as a prisoner, but then applaud the idea of doing the same thing to Eugene (one person said both these things in one reply!). This is what I've liked about All Out War and the skewed morality. In many ways Negan is a bad guy, but in many ways Negan is better man than Rick. Is it wrong for Negan to rule other communities with a mafia like 'protection' fee, which is really extortion and subjection? Sure. But is more wrong than Daryl, Rick, and Morgan trying to acheive absolute genocide of The Saviors, innocent men, women and children and soldiers alike? I don't think so. At the end of the S7 premiere after Glenn and Abraham were dead, Alexandria's kill count of The Saviors was about 50, and The Savior kill count was 3, and they see Negan as the sole aggressor despite Rick and the Gang deciding to exterminate The Saviors for their own means by taking The Saviors deal with The Hilltop. It seems to many Walking Dead fans, two wrongs make a right...

I really think they're going to stick the landing with this finale, and I'm excited for next season with a new showrunner and this Negan arc to be over with. But I'm more excited for Season 4 of Fear The Walking Dead.

[Still Servant]

I hate to say it, but I think you and I are the only people around here that give a shit about this show anymore. The last few episodes have been strong.

I've always been annoyed by Eugene, so I don't care who kills him. Negan's crew, Rick's crew. Just make it quick. People have hated on films like Juno for the way the characters speak. Eugene is even worse. No human talks like that. Never have, never will.

[Mattrick]

Well, Eugene is autistic, which is why he talks so weird. He apparently based his cadence off his little brother, so someone talks like that lol

It is a shame the bungled up All Out War because it's such a strong arc in the comics. They lost their way with characters, but glad to see the focus is back on characters in this second half as it should be.

[Tommy]

I hate to say it, but I think you and I are the only people around here that give a shit about this show anymore.

I stopped watching at the beginning of season 4 but pop in every once in a while to see what's happening. Is Michonne still around? She was the only one I liked....

[Mattrick]

Season 4 and 5 were the height of the show :'(

Michonne is still around. Tons of new characters since I guess since you stopped watching. Most of them good. Sometimes I think Walking Dead does such a great job building up its supporting cast the central cast doesn't get the attention it should (Daryl has barely changed since you last saw him!). But that's bound to happen when your cast goes from a core group of 10 people to cast of 30+

[Tommy]

Maybe I'll catch up one day when all is said and done. Keep up the conversation though. It'll be interesting to go back and see what people were saying about certain episodes later on.

[Still Servant]

Well, Eugene is autistic, which is why he talks so weird. He apparently based his cadence off his little brother, so someone talks like that lol

Cadence, yes. The way he forms sentences, doubtful. I know a lot of brilliant people, some of them are probably autistic, and none of them structure sentences the way Eugene does.

[Joe315]

I really enjoyed this show but I feel like they are dragging it out now. Negan has gone on too long imo, and once he’s gone there’ll just be another sociopathic antagonist who pops up. I never read the comic so I don’t know the endgame here if there is one but I want them to get to where they can live peacefully already.

I haven’t read anything above in case I start watching again so I’m not sure if this has already been discussed.

[Ben Staad]

He more closely resembles someone who is now referred to as high on the spectrum. This was previously called Asperger's. It is still not exactly right as he is functional on many levels and has various skills. From my experience it is unusual for someone on the spectrum to have diverse exceptional talents. This is only my opinion.

Well, Eugene is autistic, which is why he talks so weird. He apparently based his cadence off his little brother, so someone talks like that lol

Cadence, yes. The way he forms sentences, doubtful. I know a lot of brilliant people, some of them are probably autistic, and none of them structure sentences the way Eugene does.

[Mattrick]

Well, it seems his talent is basically being an otaku, except he's just obsessed with learning. I don't think he necessarily has many diverse talents, they all seem to boil down to science, which he probably knows a lot of because he was a high school science teacher (at least in the comics).

[Mattrick]

I really enjoyed this show but I feel like they are dragging it out now. Negan has gone on too long imo, and once he’s gone there’ll just be another sociopathic antagonist who pops up. I never read the comic so I don’t know the endgame here if there is one but I want them to get to where they can live peacefully already.

I haven’t read anything above in case I start watching again so I’m not sure if this has already been discussed.

If they stick with the comics, yes there is another baddie coming up, but it's very, very different from the Negan arc.

[Mattrick]

Urg, turns out I have to go to my friends and drink tonight and watch Jason X. I thought that was next Sunday! Will have to watch these episodes late tonight. Hope I don't get spoiled on anything!

[Mattrick]

Actually, that is cancelled due to weather. Going to be getting a literally ass pounding of rain during the night. Guess I can watch this stuff (basically) live.

[Mattrick]

I enjoyed both episodes a lot. That conversation between Jesus, Maggie, and Daryl was a fantastic teaser going into the next season. But what I popped most for was that easter egg with the big herd of walkers. Made me all giddy. I was a little disappointed there was no actual fight during the finale, but it was good that Eugene did what he did. I love how All Out War happens in the comics, but they did a much better job of setting up that ending. The Oceanside side plot still, to me, was totally redundant...The Scavengers were too, but at least something interesting became of it. Oceanside didn't even play the dues ex machina role I assumed they'd play, turning the tide after Negan attacks, so that's pretty disappointing. It was nice seeing some of these characters get some catharsis, and that's kind of what makes Maggie's anger about Negan being alive so much gutting for her, because so many others seemed to be able to get some closure, but not her. Rick didn't let her get it. It seems that they are remixing the comic a bit in this regard and changing her being distant from Rick to having straight up animosity. It wasn't a crazy finale. Was pretty low key, actually, which I liked. We got enough time to bring it back to the characters at the end. Gimple and Kang said this finale was kind of a finale to the whole show in the sense the show is going to feel very different now, and if it's anything like the comics, which also feel way different the very next issue, it will be. Hopefully any jaded TWD fans will enjoy what's coming next.



Fear was real good episode too. I love the journalist angle. Out of everyone in the shows, you'd think someone would try to document events and people's journey's as some measure of telling the history of the apocalypse for after. I remember back in Season 5 when Reggie talked to Noah, and he had a book that he said was the history of Alexandria, but it doesn't seem as though anyone has ever written in it since him and Deanna died. And it was pretty cool hearing Morgan tell other people about Alexandria and The Kingdom and the tiger lol. I've wondered why Morgan went to Texas (or maybe he's trying to get past it). Maybe he's just trying to get far away from Virginia, but part of me wonders if he has some family member on the west coast, like a sister or brother. When Morgan was announced as the cross-over character, my first thought was that woman (can't recall her name) that Alicia meets at the end of Season 3 could be Morgan's sister and give a reason for him going there. I'm not entirely sold on the new characters yet because they haven't really gotten a chance to stretch out their legs, so I'm looking forward to get to know them more. S3 developed the new characters really well. I'm curious on why there were so many walkers in those trailers, and that part with the grenade was sweet. Haven't seen a grenade in this show since the S1 finale!

The one thing I really noticed, watching the two shows back to the back, is that Fear is shot on digital and TWD is shot on film. You can just tell how clean looking FTWD is compared to the original show. I kind of wish they were both film. And I you can see the FTWD colour scheme not long after Morgan leaves...that brownish grey, not sepia, but somewhere between that and grey. That was a nice touch. I actually wonder if they shot the first scenes with Rick and them with film, and that's why I noticed the transition so much.



I hope Fear is as good this season as it was last season. And I am stoked for Season 9 and my favourite plotline from the comics.

[Still Servant]

I was a little disappointed there was no actual fight during the finale, but it was good that Eugene did what he did. I love how All Out War happens in the comics, but they did a much better job of setting up that ending.

I'm not going to lie, this really bummed me out. I guess knowing how it all unfolded, there really wasn't any other way to do it, but I really wanted to see a nice battle. Oh well. It was a good episode overall.

The one thing I really noticed, watching the two shows back to the back, is that Fear is shot on digital and TWD is shot on film. You can just tell how clean looking FTWD is compared to the original show. I kind of wish they were both film. And I you can see the FTWD colour scheme not long after Morgan leaves...that brownish grey, not sepia, but somewhere between that and grey. That was a nice touch. I actually wonder if they shot the first scenes with Rick and them with film, and that's why I noticed the transition so much.

You have a keen eye. I believe it's 16MM.

[Mattrick]

I've always noticed a difference in the Fear Walkers. Too...they always seem cleaner...not sure if that's the effects or the use of digital film, which takes some of the realism away from the make up effects. I noticed a lot of comments since about how Fear looks better than TWD. And I can see that to an extent, but what Fear can do in post with digital film makes a lot of difference. Some of the landscape shots were clearly color toned after filming, whereas TWD needs to do it all on location, and TWD definitely goes for a gritty realism. Nicotero has some directing flairs which irritate me. At least we got close ups of walkers this time lol. But his shots of blocking characters right in front of the sun, so the sun blots it out, or just peeks past the actor, is really over done. Doing that once or twice you can get away with, but he did it every episode this season. He's not a horrible director by any means, but his artistic flourishes are not exactly varied.

If there is one thing Fear showed, it's that it has better writers. The dialogue in Fear is great. That opening scene with gunslinger (can't remember his name lol) talking into the woods was so well done. It really established his character and where he was in life. But I have high hopes for Season 9 with Angela Kang taking over. Her episodes are very dialogue heavy and excellently written, and she's said to intend to make the show dialogue and character focused, how it was in the first 5 seasons. I really hope a lot of fans do come back to the show for Season 9 because it really has the chance to be the best season of the show, especially if they end the season at issue 144...that's gotta linger for 6 months.

I know some asked before about where we are in the comics. Seasons 7/8 were issues 100-126, and Season 9 should be 127-144. Season 10 should wrap up at about issue 169...hard to say what elements of those 25 issues they'll keep. The story in the comics unfolds a lot slower after Negan, so they can definitely squeeze in more issues per episode since character moments take less time than action sequences.

[Ben Staad]

Watched the last 3 episodes over the course of Sunday and last night. They were better but I still feel they are missing out by just skimming the surface of characters and leaning so hard on action. The drama of the show is limited and forced. When they try it is contrived and lacks depth. The letters from Carl lost their impact because of the ham fisted handling of them.

Overall I did enjoy the last 3 episodes but the show has lost a ton of shine for me. In the finale the whole Dudley Do-Right with Negan was a bummer and specifically the set-ups of things are just flat out to simple to keep me interested.

[webstar1000]

I had NO idea there was a time jump in Fear. So for that reason I was blown away... almost as much as I was when Carols daughter walked out of that barn many years ago. Fear... was brilliant. I am looking so forward to what’s to come!


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[Still Servant]

If there is one thing Fear showed, it's that it has better writers. The dialogue in Fear is great. That opening scene with gunslinger (can't remember his name lol) talking into the woods was so well done. It really established his character and where he was in life. But I have high hopes for Season 9 with Angela Kang taking over. Her episodes are very dialogue heavy and excellently written, and she's said to intend to make the show dialogue and character focused, how it was in the first 5 seasons. I really hope a lot of fans do come back to the show for Season 9 because it really has the chance to be the best season of the show, especially if they end the season at issue 144...that's gotta linger for 6 months.

I couldn't agree more. I thought that episode of Fear alone did a better job of establishing characters and plotting action than The Walking Dead has done in years.

Garret Dillahunt's character was really cool and I'm already invested in Maggie Grace's character. The shoot out was great and did a great job of making the walkers dangerous without introducing a massive horde. I hope they keep it up. I was particularly impressed with the second half of Fear's 2nd season.

[fernandito]

is Negan dead yet

[Mattrick]

is Negan dead yet

[Mattrick]

If there is one thing Fear showed, it's that it has better writers. The dialogue in Fear is great. That opening scene with gunslinger (can't remember his name lol) talking into the woods was so well done. It really established his character and where he was in life. But I have high hopes for Season 9 with Angela Kang taking over. Her episodes are very dialogue heavy and excellently written, and she's said to intend to make the show dialogue and character focused, how it was in the first 5 seasons. I really hope a lot of fans do come back to the show for Season 9 because it really has the chance to be the best season of the show, especially if they end the season at issue 144...that's gotta linger for 6 months.

I couldn't agree more. I thought that episode of Fear alone did a better job of establishing characters and plotting action than The Walking Dead has done in years.

Garret Dillahunt's character was really cool and I'm already invested in Maggie Grace's character. The shoot out was great and did a great job of making the walkers dangerous without introducing a massive horde. I hope they keep it up. I was particularly impressed with the second half of Fear's 2nd season.

I wasn't a big fan of season 2 at all. It definitely had moments. I liked the first few episodes out on the ocean, but once they landed in Mexico with that compound, the village with Luciana, and the hotel, it started to feel pretty convoluted and disengaging. It didn't finish pretty strong with the last couple of episodes. I loved how the ended it, and the episode with Travis/Chris was the best of the season.

I fucking loved Season 3 though. I liked all the new characters (I'll be sad if Walker and his right hand man who was with him at the end never return) and thought they did a great job of establishing The Ranch and The Dam. Salazar was totally awesome in that season, I thought Strand and Madison really took massive steps forward in that season after how middling their characters were in season 2.

I think the difference between Fear and TWD goes back to what I said before. Walking Dead is pulling from source material and are setting up pre-written plots, and it feels like that when you watch it. Fear is just shooting from the hip, doing whatever they want. And to me that's always been the big selling point as a comic reader. It's uncharted territory with new characters in a new part of the country. That's why I liked the boat stuff in Fear s2...was so different than TWD.

[webstar1000]

Do you comic readers like the fact that Frar now takes place after Walking Dead? Or do you think they will time jump in WD to leap frog over Fear making it a prequel again? I wonder if the season will turn into a flashback season too.... telling what has been going on. Think Fear could become my fav or the two...


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