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Thread: How would non DT-readers react to the ending of a DT movie ? *SPOILERS*

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    Default How would non DT-readers react to the ending of a DT movie ? *SPOILERS*

    Was discussing this with a friend a few days ago , thought it would make an interesting thread -


    Some of us (albeit only initially, in some cases) had trouble digesting the ending to the Dark Tower in it's original form. Even though the ending was strongly hinted at throughout the series, especially considering the revised version of the gunslinger, some of us (of which I count myself) felt that the ending was an all in all cop out by King. It was only later through the process of healing, and copious amounts of tears and hair tearing that we were able to ultimately accept the fate our beloved gunslinger

    Now then, if we can all agree that the ending (the constant loop) is a tough pill to swallow by conventional standards, and seeing as how the movie will contain roughly 1/10th of the information that the novels present us with, how do you think the audience would react to the ending ? Imagine sitting at your local cinema with an audience that - for the most part - hasn't read the novels, when suddenly the dawning realization hits them that Roland is on a constant loop, bitter as tears ... how would they react ? How would critics that haven't read, and probably won't read the series react ?

    Thoughts ?

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    you so sure the ending will be like in the book? I suspect at the end of a Hollywood movie Roland will kill the dragon and marry the princess

    I don't see any other way out. If the movie tries to be faithful to the book, it will look, given the limited time, like an extended trailer, and leave the audience in the state of utter confusion, ending or no ending. If, on the other hand, they try to make it more like a normal movie, they will have to change too much; why not the ending?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I don't see any other way out. If the movie tries to be faithful to the book, it will look, given the limited time, like an extended trailer, and leave the audience in the state of utter confusion, ending or no ending.
    I'm inclined to agree with bears. Given the deficit of information , and the lack of third person narration (presumably), it would be difficult for the movie to utilize the original ending and not have audiences going "WTF?!"

    But how could/should they change it ? Perhaps the film could show us Roland's final loop ? One that shows him ... I don't know, being reunited with his friends at the clearing at the end of the path ? One that gives closure ?

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    Meh, they should've just given it to Christopher Nolan - he'd be able to condense the whole story, keep the original ending and still make it work as total sense! Well, near total sense, at least. About as much sense as Inception, which worked as total sense to me, first time I saw it.

    If the establishing shot was something like Roland falling down in a state of confusion or something, and then when we finally got to the ending he's pushed/pulled through the door by an unseen force (we know it'd be Gan, but for the audience it would just be classified as "unseen force") and then have him fall down on the desert sand, thus returning to the original opening shot, I think it could work. Idk, maybe I'm just one of those people who actually prefer fucked up endings for our heroes - in other words, British!
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    The only way they could do is with clever foreshadowing. Things that if you went back and watch it again you were like hey....wait a minute.

    If they are indeed doing a Trilogy, they would have to do it something like this.


    First Movie concludes with Lud, as I think The Calla and Song of Susannah need their own movie and Lud would be a great sequence to end the first movie. However...how would they treat Blaine? Would general audiences find a psychotic monorail that loves riddles stupid? I think Blaine would have to just be a normal train...or psychotic without the riddles and they find a way to stop it other ways.

    Second movie would go long until Mordred is born.

    The the last movie should be Book seven.

    They could do...

    Movie 1 - Up until end of Drawing of the Three.
    Movie 2 - Ends before Song of Susannah
    Movie 3 - The rest.

    Not sure which way would work best.



    The Backstory would have to be told in flashbacks if even told at all. It may just be ommitted completely. The first 4 books (excluding backstory) is about 1200 pages where as the last three books are about 2000 pages.


    It's a real shame The Dark Tower has such a cult following and not the mainstream following both Harry Potter and Twilight had...seeing as they both get their final book into two movies, meaning more books than movies and Dark Tower is slated to get 4 less movies than books. Makes me hate Harry Potter and Twilight more than I already do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    you so sure the ending will be like in the book? I suspect at the end of a Hollywood movie Roland will kill the dragon and marry the princess
    In this case I don't think we talk about a DT movie at all. I mean even if the main character is called Roland and he is seeking a big tall building.. it won't be the Dark Tower at all.

    Roland would have understood.

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    I've always felt that the ending was the only one that worked for the series, and as such, was perfect. It made me see how damned Roland was, and in my opinion damned for the things that he is damned to repeat. Very paradoxical, and yet somehow poetic. I don't see any reason for the movie to end differently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    you so sure the ending will be like in the book? I suspect at the end of a Hollywood movie Roland will kill the dragon and marry the princess
    In this case I don't think we talk about a DT movie at all. I mean even if the main character is called Roland and he is seeking a big tall building.. it won't be the Dark Tower at all.
    That's exactly what I expect the movie to be. A Clint-Eastwood type called Roland seeking a big tall building, the vice is punished, the virtue prevails.

    Quote Originally Posted by BROWNINGS CHILDE View Post
    I've always felt that the ending was the only one that worked for the series, and as such, was perfect. It made me see how damned Roland was, and in my opinion damned for the things that he is damned to repeat. Very paradoxical, and yet somehow poetic. I don't see any reason for the movie to end differently.
    I see three reasons: screenwriter, producer, and director.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by BROWNINGS CHILDE View Post
    I've always felt that the ending was the only one that worked for the series, and as such, was perfect. It made me see how damned Roland was, and in my opinion damned for the things that he is damned to repeat. Very paradoxical, and yet somehow poetic. I don't see any reason for the movie to end differently.
    I see three reasons: screenwriter, producer, and director.
    Ahh...you are right.

    What I meant to say is I don't see why the movie SHOULD end differently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    you so sure the ending will be like in the book? I suspect at the end of a Hollywood movie Roland will kill the dragon and marry the princess
    In this case I don't think we talk about a DT movie at all. I mean even if the main character is called Roland and he is seeking a big tall building.. it won't be the Dark Tower at all.
    That's exactly what I expect the movie to be. A Clint-Eastwood type called Roland seeking a big tall building, the vice is punished, the virtue prevails.
    Yeah, that's why I am not planning to watch it.

    ANYWAY if they kept the ending as it is I think the DT movie could change the movie history forever. I mean... it could open closed doors in the darkest holes of the soul. It would be so new, so out of the blue. I think people could have really great chats and while some were as pissed as ever others would be shocked and damn happy with it. It could give a nice (and well-deserved) kick to the movie industry.
    Or am I just a too devoted DT junkie?

    Roland would have understood.

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    In the movie ending when he gets to the top of the door, he'll probably find Susan and live happily ever after. Then everyone else will also live happily ever after...

    Not that that would true to the book, but that's Hollywood for ya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorDodge View Post
    Meh, they should've just given it to Christopher Nolan - he'd be able to condense the whole story, keep the original ending and still make it work as total sense! Well, near total sense, at least. About as much sense as Inception, which worked as total sense to me, first time I saw it.

    If the establishing shot was something like Roland falling down in a state of confusion or something, and then when we finally got to the ending he's pushed/pulled through the door by an unseen force (we know it'd be Gan, but for the audience it would just be classified as "unseen force") and then have him fall down on the desert sand, thus returning to the original opening shot, I think it could work. Idk, maybe I'm just one of those people who actually prefer fucked up endings for our heroes - in other words, British!

    This reminds me of the ending of Quaraphenia in a way.

    Spoiler:
    Phil Daniels looks like he has driven off the cliff but, if you pay attention to the begining, you see hime walking away from the cliff. therefore, just his bike went over.


    Maybe someone like Richard Kelly should do it and noone will know what the fuck is going on and it will be open to interpretaion,

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorDodge View Post
    Meh, they should've just given it to Christopher Nolan <...>
    which made me think of how my three favorite directors of all times would have dealt with the loop:

    Hitchcock. [main loop theme: the loop is definitely a mauvais ton joke, a movie must have an ending that leaves no room for dissatisfaction] Roland is standing at the door, trying to remember the “I’m a Man of Constant Sorrow” tune; the sound of the song played on the piano suddenly comes from behind the door; the door opens and reveals Rosalita playing the piano. She is, of course, Susan, as we could clearly see in his dream where Rosalita complained of having burned the bread. Now that the Commie (remember “Crimson”?) plot, too intricate for the audience to have followed, has been annihilated, Father Callahan, whose demise had been staged in order to confuse the villains, joins Roland’s and Rosalita’s hands with a wisecrack which will end the movie.

    Polanski. [main loop theme: the credited author of the adaptation can stick his loop up his ass] Roland, with bandages on his hands, feet, and nose, crawls up the stairs, and enters a dark room full of small, crooked, irregularly placed mirrors, in which he glimpses reflections of himself, Susan, Eddie, Susannah and everybody else, so distorted that there’s no doubt they had all been plotting against him all the time; the whole movie, in fact, is the story of Roland’s being continuously victimized by the ka-tet and everybody who happened to pass by. He flings himself out the window and lies there in the mud, blood and disgrace, while all other characters walk past and spit on him; the dark tower is substantially darker than ever before.

    Kurosawa. [main loop theme: the metaphysics mustn’t be spoonfed to people] The tower burns, the friends fall, the blood flows in dark crimson rivers. Roland, played by Toshiro Mifune, decapitates everything he sees, while Patrick Danville plays the flute, sitting on a heap of mutilated bodies. The Tower collapses, burying everyone who had still survived – rather many, because nobody had been allowed to just up and die under visually lackluster circumstances. Everything is archetypal of everything, so no wonder you can guess the loop and all the rest of it in how Roland casts a last glance upon the dead, and turns to pursue his way further, with a single “Ohayō!”

    Conclusion:

    In other words, a movie is the director, if we're talking about the real ones (both directors and movies); if the director is great, it won't be the Stephen King's Dark Tower any longer anyway; but if the director isn't great, why would we need his movie at all?

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    you know who I think should direct the dark tower movies?
    Preferably all six of them (as I think the song of susana can be condensed into dt5 and 7)

    David Fincher! that's who!

    He pulled off palahniuks fight club ending so I think that he could do justice to the dark tower7 ending
    if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorDodge View Post
    Meh, they should've just given it to Christopher Nolan <...>
    which made me think of how my three favorite directors of all times would have dealt with the loop:

    Hitchcock. [main loop theme: the loop is definitely a mauvais ton joke, a movie must have an ending that leaves no room for dissatisfaction] Roland is standing at the door, trying to remember the “I’m a Man of Constant Sorrow” tune; the sound of the song played on the piano suddenly comes from behind the door; the door opens and reveals Rosalita playing the piano. She is, of course, Susan, as we could clearly see in his dream where Rosalita complained of having burned the bread. Now that the Commie (remember “Crimson”?) plot, too intricate for the audience to have followed, has been annihilated, Father Callahan, whose demise had been staged in order to confuse the villains, joins Roland’s and Rosalita’s hands with a wisecrack which will end the movie.

    Polanski. [main loop theme: the credited author of the adaptation can stick his loop up his ass] Roland, with bandages on his hands, feet, and nose, crawls up the stairs, and enters a dark room full of small, crooked, irregularly placed mirrors, in which he glimpses reflections of himself, Susan, Eddie, Susannah and everybody else, so distorted that there’s no doubt they had all been plotting against him all the time; the whole movie, in fact, is the story of Roland’s being continuously victimized by the ka-tet and everybody who happened to pass by. He flings himself out the window and lies there in the mud, blood and disgrace, while all other characters walk past and spit on him; the dark tower is substantially darker than ever before.

    Kurosawa. [main loop theme: the metaphysics mustn’t be spoonfed to people] The tower burns, the friends fall, the blood flows in dark crimson rivers. Roland, played by Toshiro Mifune, decapitates everything he sees, while Patrick Danville plays the flute, sitting on a heap of mutilated bodies. The Tower collapses, burying everyone who had still survived – rather many, because nobody had been allowed to just up and die under visually lackluster circumstances. Everything is archetypal of everything, so no wonder you can guess the loop and all the rest of it in how Roland casts a last glance upon the dead, and turns to pursue his way further, with a single “Ohayō!”

    Conclusion:

    In other words, a movie is the director, if we're talking about the real ones (both directors and movies); if the director is great, it won't be the Stephen King's Dark Tower any longer anyway; but if the director isn't great, why would we need his movie at all?
    WOW. I'm really impressed--you really know your directors!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    ...I think Blaine would have to just be a normal train...or psychotic without the riddles and they find a way to stop it other ways. ...
    I swear, I would walk right out of the theater!
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    ...if they kept the ending as it is I think the DT movie could change the movie history forever. I mean... it could open closed doors in the darkest holes of the soul. It would be so new, so out of the blue. I think people could have really great chats and while some were as pissed as ever others would be shocked and damn happy with it. It could give a nice (and well-deserved) kick to the movie industry.
    Or am I just a too devoted DT junkie?
    Yar, I think so... you're overrating the ending, IMHO, and overestimating it. Think harder about examples in movie history, which I won't spoil by naming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ...if the director is great, it won't be the Stephen King's Dark Tower any longer anyway...
    True enough, but it could still be worthwhile.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ...a Hollywood movie ...the vice is punished, the virtue prevails. ...
    Sadly, you're probably right. The only way that they could sell it to a mainstream American audience would be to thoroughly discourage any identification with Roland at any point at all... and also iron out all other complexities of theme to make sure that it's entirely patronizing.

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    I could see quite a few flame wars on less civilized movie forums, for one thing. The smart move, I think, would be to have Roland ascending the Tower as an after credits scene. As far as directors go, I could see Nolan handling The Drawing of the Three and Wizard and Glass quite well.

    So far though, Darabont is the guy I trust most with King adaptions.

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    I think a cool way to end the movie would be to have Roland enter the room at the top of the tower and have him scream as the camera pulls fast back down the stairs he just came up, into blackness...show light and have it fade into a scene in a desert. In it we see The Man In Black at a camp, making some food or something then his expression changes. The camera pans far out into the desert and we find Roland, dazed and confused, he drinks some water. He sees Cuthberts Rook skull and stares at it for a moment...as if he's questioning something. Then he picks it up, dusts it off and puts it in his satchel, then he pulls it back out, looking at it bemused. 'It seems so long ago, since I almost left this when Cuthbert died' or something (Jericho Hill would be shown in a flashback and distinctly showing him choosing not to pick it up) and he simply continues to walk into the desert. And we see this again from Man In Black's perspective and he says 'Act 20; The Man In Black Fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed' and puts out his camp and starts walking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_and_Yoko View Post
    WOW. I'm really impressed--you really know your directors!
    thank you J&Y!

    Quote Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    ...I think Blaine would have to just be a normal train...or psychotic without the riddles and they find a way to stop it other ways. ...
    I swear, I would walk right out of the theater!
    So would bears. I hope that wouldn't be subject to change, though, it seems to be rather cinematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    ...if they kept the ending as it is I think the DT movie could change the movie history forever. I mean... it could open closed doors in the darkest holes of the soul. It would be so new, so out of the blue. I think people could have really great chats and while some were as pissed as ever others would be shocked and damn happy with it. It could give a nice (and well-deserved) kick to the movie industry.
    Or am I just a too devoted DT junkie?
    Yar, I think so... you're overrating the ending, IMHO, and overestimating it. Think harder about examples in movie history, which I won't spoil by naming.
    indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ...if the director is great, it won't be the Stephen King's Dark Tower any longer anyway...
    True enough, but it could still be worthwhile.
    I actually meant it would be worthwhile only in this case; we need a good movie, after all, not mediocre - but I'm afraid it can happen only at the expense of the book. Take Desperation movie... almost word-perfect, and mediocrity incarnate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ...a Hollywood movie ...the vice is punished, the virtue prevails. ...
    Sadly, you're probably right. The only way that they could sell it to a mainstream American audience would be to thoroughly discourage any identification with Roland at any point at all... and also iron out all other complexities of theme to make sure that it's entirely patronizing.
    I am not sure a Hollywood movie of this scale is possible without the good guy, so I suspect it's Roland's complexities that are going to be ironed out, to enable identification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ...a Hollywood movie ...the vice is punished, the virtue prevails. ...
    Sadly, you're probably right. The only way that they could sell it to a mainstream American audience would be to thoroughly discourage any identification with Roland at any point at all... and also iron out all other complexities of theme to make sure that it's entirely patronizing.
    I am not sure a Hollywood movie of this scale is possible without the good guy, so I suspect it's Roland's complexities that are going to be ironed out, to enable identification.
    They could make Eddie the good guy.

    I'm saying that if they're determined to leave no ambiguity as to the moral order of the universe, then they'll either have to change the ending completely, or to make Roland a total villian, or to show precisely what his fault is and clearly indicate how he'll deal with it.

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