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View Poll Results: Do you want a Dark Tower filmed adaptaion?

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Thread: The Dark Tower series filmed adaptation

  1. #2501
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Idris Elba is a bad-ass actor for a bad-ass part. It's an action/fantasy movie and his personality and look are certainly the equal of Hugh Jackman who whovever else was on the shortlist.

    It's not 1985 and Clint Eastwood was never walking through that door.

    But if we're talking about shitting on source material, here you go;

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-ten-worst...-fi-1749960081

    I guess it ain't so funny when the rabbit's got the gun.

  2. #2502
    Owner Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg's Avatar

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    If people can complain about "whitewashing", I suppose they can also complain about blackwashing. I no longer feel passionate about the issue. It's likely the movie won't even be made and then it's much ado about nothing.

  3. #2503
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    What are a getting at with this? Visually Mr. Elba doesn't fit the part. That much is without a doubt. Right? If this thing is ever made I would like to see someone who looks and acts the part. Mr. Elba doesn't meet part of my requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rahfa View Post
    Idris Elba is a bad-ass actor for a bad-ass part. It's an action/fantasy movie and his personality and look are certainly the equal of Hugh Jackman who whovever else was on the shortlist.

    It's not 1985 and Clint Eastwood was never walking through that door.

    But if we're talking about shitting on source material, here you go;

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-ten-worst...-fi-1749960081

    I guess it ain't so funny when the rabbit's got the gun.

  4. #2504
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
    If people can complain about "whitewashing", I suppose they can also complain about blackwashing. I no longer feel passionate about the issue. It's likely the movie won't even be made and then it's much ado about nothing.
    The difference is the examples of "whitewashing" are in the dozens and dozens - while this is ONE example of a black action star playing an action hero in an action movie about an entirely fictional world. If you can find me 10 examples of the reverse, I bet I can match them 5 to one.

    The only reason to care about this casting is if one is personally and emotionally invested in seeing a hero that looks like oneself - otherwise, what difference does it make? Elba is obviously a good actor and looks the tough guy part. If you don't like Elba as an actor, that's an entirely different argument...I do.

    Again, this isn't Roland Deschain's biography. He doesn't exist. If Idris Elba got cast as Chessley Sullenberger, yeah, then you'd have a point...at least Ben Kingsley WAS of Indian descent when he played Ghandi. Charlton Heston as the Mexican detective facing off with Orson Welles (who played Othello), not so much.

  5. #2505
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    What are a getting at with this? Visually Mr. Elba doesn't fit the part. That much is without a doubt. Right? If this thing is ever made I would like to see someone who looks and acts the part. Mr. Elba doesn't meet part of my requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rahfa View Post
    Idris Elba is a bad-ass actor for a bad-ass part. It's an action/fantasy movie and his personality and look are certainly the equal of Hugh Jackman who whovever else was on the shortlist.

    It's not 1985 and Clint Eastwood was never walking through that door.

    But if we're talking about shitting on source material, here you go;

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-ten-worst...-fi-1749960081

    I guess it ain't so funny when the rabbit's got the gun.
    He fits the part fine as far as I can tell.

    He's a tall, taciturn, lantern-jawed, low voiced action hero type. He can wear a duster and draw a gun.

    I'm not sure what your "requirements" are.

  6. #2506
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    I think you are deliberately trying to turn this into something it clearly is not. I won't speak for anyone other than myself but the physical look of Roland is important to me. He is clearly described in the books and there are multiple lines that make it clear he is white. I suppose you can remove all of that from the script but I would be disappointed. I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.

  7. #2507
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Right - because you didn't have to care. White heroes were played by white actors and colored heroes were played by white actors. The world looked a certain way, and it didn't matter to you, because why should it? It looked like you expected, so of course you didn't care.

    Now the world might look a *different* way than you expected, and you DO care.

  8. #2508
    Prisoner of Gan Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute Ben Staad has a reputation beyond repute

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    Rahfa. You are race baiting and I will not continue this discussion. I think you are intentionally disregarding the simple point of this discussion to create an argument for a larger issue in the industry.

    For what it's worth is I always thought that Ben-Hur and those other period pieces were ridiculous strictly based on skin color.

  9. #2509
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I think you are deliberately trying to turn this into something it clearly is not. I won't speak for anyone other than myself but the physical look of Roland is important to me. He is clearly described in the books and there are multiple lines that make it clear he is white. I suppose you can remove all of that from the script but I would be disappointed. I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    It already IS something - just nobody wanted to say it. The book and the movie will be two different things. Roland will be played by an actor that does not resemble him - where in the book does it say he's Austrailian? It doesn't? Well, then how could be played by Russell Crowe or Hugh Jackman? English? He's not? Well, then Daniel Craig can't play him. Clint Eastwood? He's not 84 years old. So there is no perfect Roland.

    It doesn't matter who plays him because it's a fictional world about fictional people reading words written by one author and then rewritten by a screenwriter to be adapted for an entirely different medium. They will make a creative choice - just like two Australians played a French cop and fugitive, just like Charlton Heston played a Mexican, just like Orson Welles played a North African, just like Jonathan Pryce played a Vietnamese, just like Johnny Depp played an Indian. Were those bad choices? No, they were creative choices made by the producers of entertainment.

    If all you see in an actor is skin color, that's pathetic and shallow. If you are so limited in your worldview that Roland only exists as one kind of person (when the Beams clearly indicate a changing universe) who looks a certain way, that's creatively absurd and unimaginative. If you want to say Elba is bad actor, that's an entirely different debate - and totally legitimate - but if you're stuck in a ditch because on page 57 or whatever of the Gunslinger, Roland was described a certain way, then you're stuck in 1982 and it's 2015.

  10. #2510
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    Rahfa. You are race baiting and I will not continue this discussion. I think you are intentionally disregarding the simple point of this discussion to create an argument for a larger issue in the industry.
    Unbelieveable. I'm race baiting?

    The point of the discussion is people are whining because their version of Roland MIGHT be changed from the comfortable white version they grew up with and it makes them uncomfortable they might have to see the world through the eyes of a different kind of hero.

    I'm fucking appalled at this discussion. I'm disgusted with the debate. I think it's an obscenity that it's even an issue.

  11. #2511
    Owner Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg's Avatar

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    Rahfa, putting the casting of Roland aside, do you think that Odetta could be well acted by a white woman, and more importantly, does the color or gender of the actor portraying "her" matter?
    How about Jake? An accomplished Kabuki actor (either gender)?
    Can (should) Oy be portayed by a well trained cat?
    They are all fictional, but have a well described appearance and nature.

    Should "Shaft" be remade (or originally done) with Justin Beiber as Shaft? Would there be howls of protest?

  12. #2512
    Rabid Billybumbler Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold Rahfa is a splendid one to behold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Flagg View Post
    Rahfa, putting the casting of Roland aside, do you think that Odetta could be well acted by a white woman, and more importantly, does the color or gender of the actor portraying "her" matter?
    How about Jake? An accomplished Kabuki actor (either gender)?
    Can (should) Oy be portayed by a well trained cat?
    They are all fictional, but have a well described appearance and nature.

    Should "Shaft" be remade (or originally done) with Justin Beiber as Shaft? Would there be howls of protest?
    If a screenwriter was strictly loyal to the book than Odetta would be a very strange white woman - but if they tinkered with the character, then it would be fine.

    Shaft with Justin Bieber is a different movie - an amazing movie, but different.

    Jake could EASILY be a girl - wouldn't even be an issue.

    The difference is does the color MATTER to the character and when it comes to Roland the answer is OBVIOUSLY NOT. That should be clear to anybody who read the book - did you THINK of him as a "white person" in a way that was important to the plot? Where? Why? And how vital was it to the narrative? It's not, it just isn't. Yeah, he was described as "white" - but so what? It doesn't matter to the narrative. Anymore than color matters to the Man in Black.

    Odetta actually matters as a black woman because that's the two sides of her (rather poorly-written, stereotyped) personality...so that would be a tougher switch, but it could certainly be done.

    But would it MATTER if Jake became Janet? Why? Then she's an adventurous little girl instead of a boy - her actions and fate wouldn't change.

    And Shaft IS a black cop (or private eye?) and that's the whole point of that narrative - so you can't switch the race because then it's a different movie. But you COULD flip flop Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in the Lethal Weapons and it would be fine - different, but fine.

    The good rule of thumb is does the race matter to the narrative - and if the answer's "yes," then do you have a good answer for "why," and if the answer's "no," then get an actor who can carry the part - I think Elba can. I think he's a bad-ass actor for a bad-ass part...if you don't like him AS AN ACTOR that's entirely different.

    But if ALL someone cares about is something as - literally - skin deep as skin color, that's the most unimaginative, shallow, pitiful way of looking at the world that there is.

  13. #2513
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    And - this is a bit of a strawman argument because it hasn't come up - but if EDDIE was changed to a wisecracking BLACK troublemaker, would it be an issue? I bet not, because we're always cool with the Stepin Fetchit sidekick.

  14. #2514
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    Actually a good example would be Mr. Mercedes - it would CHANGE the STORY if the races were changed around, because it's all about his relationship with the black kid - that's specifically part of the plot.

    It would also change the story to make Larry a black character in the Stand, because his character is the white rock star...he could be changed around of course, but that's a specific part of his identity that's relevant to the narrative.

    But look at "Shawshank" - did it matter that Red was Morgan Freeman and not a red-headed Irishman? Of course not - because it was about the STORY, not the skin color of two prisoners.

    For that matter, where were all the complaints when the hobbits/dwarves were played by actors who were digitially shrunk to size? If everybody's such a purist why is that acceptable? It's not "real" after all, is it? It "changed the source material," right?

  15. #2515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I think you are deliberately trying to turn this into something it clearly is not. I won't speak for anyone other than myself but the physical look of Roland is important to me. He is clearly described in the books and there are multiple lines that make it clear he is white. I suppose you can remove all of that from the script but I would be disappointed. I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Same here. I don't really care for all this race baiting to be quite frank.

    My reasoning for it not wanting to be Idris (whom I love and admire as an actor btw) in the role really is as 'superficial' as me wanting to see a Roland as closely described in the books as possible. In my minds eye I always pictured Roland as a tall, lanky, blue eyed ghost of a man as described by King several times, and Elba does not meet that description. Simple as that.

    If I'm being bullheaded for wanting that, well, fuck it. So be it.

  16. #2516
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    Quote Originally Posted by fernandito View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I think you are deliberately trying to turn this into something it clearly is not. I won't speak for anyone other than myself but the physical look of Roland is important to me. He is clearly described in the books and there are multiple lines that make it clear he is white. I suppose you can remove all of that from the script but I would be disappointed. I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Same here. I don't really care for all this race baiting to be quite frank.

    My reasoning for it not wanting to be Idris (whom I love and admire as an actor btw) in the role really is as 'superficial' as me wanting to see a Roland as closely described in the books as possible. In my minds eye I always pictured Roland as a tall, lanky, blue eyed ghost of a man as described by King several times, and Elba does not meet that description. Simple as that.

    If I'm being bullheaded for wanting that, well, fuck it. So be it.
    I gotta agree with you here. It's rather well established that, King had Clint Eastwood in mind when he created the character. So any casting of the role should bear that in mind. IMHO Idris Elba is a fine actor and I have loved his work in film and TV, but Roland he is not. By the same token could you see, Tom Cruise playing "Django"????? A great film BTW.

    Having said all of that, I agree that "white washing" has unfortunately occurred in the past and present and should be avoided/not tolerated. However, some things/roles are what they are and that is it. You can't have a "Black American" portray say, Richard Nixon any more than you can have a "White American" portray Martin Luther King.
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  17. #2517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahfa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Right - because you didn't have to care. White heroes were played by white actors and colored heroes were played by white actors. The world looked a certain way, and it didn't matter to you, because why should it? It looked like you expected, so of course you didn't care.

    Now the world might look a *different* way than you expected, and you DO care.
    Hey... this IS race baiting!

    One cannot dislike a black actor for a given role without being a racist?

    Shall I cast Mark McGuire in "42??"

    He IS a baseball player!!
    But it loses something.


    While I do not agree...Elba is a GREAT choice... you have played yourself by making this racial.
    All that's left of what we were is what we have become.

  18. #2518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandito View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I think you are deliberately trying to turn this into something it clearly is not. I won't speak for anyone other than myself but the physical look of Roland is important to me. He is clearly described in the books and there are multiple lines that make it clear he is white. I suppose you can remove all of that from the script but I would be disappointed. I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Same here. I don't really care for all this race baiting to be quite frank.

    My reasoning for it not wanting to be Idris (whom I love and admire as an actor btw) in the role really is as 'superficial' as me wanting to see a Roland as closely described in the books as possible. In my minds eye I always pictured Roland as a tall, lanky, blue eyed ghost of a man as described by King several times, and Elba does not meet that description. Simple as that.

    If I'm being bullheaded for wanting that, well, fuck it. So be it.
    I gotta agree with you here. It's rather well established that, King had Clint Eastwood in mind when he created the character. So any casting of the role should bear that in mind. IMHO Idris Elba is a fine actor and I have loved his work in film and TV, but Roland he is not. By the same token could you see, Tom Cruise playing "Django"????? A great film BTW.

    Having said all of that, I agree that "white washing" has unfortunately occurred in the past and present and should be avoided/not tolerated. However, some things/roles are what they are and that is it. You can't have a "Black American" portray say, Richard Nixon any more than you can have a "White American" portray Martin Luther King.
    Haha - but we had an ENGLISH actor portray Richard Nixon in Anthony Hopkins. Where's the outrage?

    Roland DOES NOT EXIST. HE'S A CARTOON. Its like being offended Jar Jar Binks was created with Windows instead of Mac software.

    I think it's hysterical that the people saying I'm "RACE BAITING!!!!" are the ones with the problem with the race of a character. I don't care if Elba portrays Roland, don't care if he doesn't - he MIGHT be cast, probably won't be, but even the rumor got people all ginned up.

    My point is that if you're worried about the color of a fictional character in a fictional land then you are primarily and literally concerned with skin-deep, shallow, meaningless attributes and you should be embarrassed to type the words. It's a world of 6 billion people and we all don't look alike, and you're lucky they don't want to appeal to the China market by casting Chow Yun-Fat (which I bet would get LESS complaints, actually).

    "He is blond haired and blue eyed and that's how I want to see him." Do you understand how shallow that is? How narrow minded? How unwilling you are to give up YOUR worldview for a different portrayal and different experience?

    Nobody's going to change their minds because this is one of those topics where people are too afraid to confront their own (obvious) racial opinions. I get it.

    if Tom Cruise played Django, then it becomes a different movie - it's a movie about BLACK SLAVES, so a white actor doesn't make sense for the story. If Roland is black, white or green it doesn't have any impact on the story - except that certain audiences will be more "comfortable" with a hero that fits their expectations.

    For crying out loud, it's fucking MAGIC in a world of wizards and a magic tower - put some blue contacts in Elba's head and there you go, he's blue-eyed. Jesus fucking criminy.

    For that matter, the book was inspired by Robert Browning's poem, and Browining is English and Elba is English - so he's a lot closer to the part than any American would be.

    Bottom line, it's lazy, unimaginative and pigheaded to get wrapped up in the color of a fictional character in a fictional world - you might not want it to be, but it is.

  19. #2519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rahfa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Right - because you didn't have to care. White heroes were played by white actors and colored heroes were played by white actors. The world looked a certain way, and it didn't matter to you, because why should it? It looked like you expected, so of course you didn't care.

    Now the world might look a *different* way than you expected, and you DO care.
    Hey... this IS race baiting!

    One cannot dislike a black actor for a given role without being a racist?

    Shall I cast Mark McGuire in "42??"

    He IS a baseball player!!
    But it loses something.


    While I do not agree...Elba is a GREAT choice... you have played yourself by making this racial.
    Hahahaha - I love it...a bunch of people complain about the POSSIBLE color of the actor playing a fictional part, and somehow I'M the race-baiter...cartwheels like this would get you a gold medal in the Olympics.

    Here's the difference - Jackie Robinson and Mark McGwire ACTUALLY EXISTED ON PLANET EARTH. If you want to make it easy for the audience in a bio-pic, you cast an actor of the same race.

    ROLAND DOESN'T EXIST EXCEPT IN YOUR IMAGINATION. If you have chosen to intepret Stephen King's words in a way that makes you feel comfortable, that's fine, but other than comic books you've never actually seen him, because he's not a real person.

    The race baiting started with the first lazy-ass, uncreative, whiny complaint about the casting - now people are just upset they're being called out on their bullshit and they're crying about that too. I didn't start shit, but it got started and I bet I'm still talking at the end.

  20. #2520
    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahfa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fernandito View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Staad View Post
    I think you are deliberately trying to turn this into something it clearly is not. I won't speak for anyone other than myself but the physical look of Roland is important to me. He is clearly described in the books and there are multiple lines that make it clear he is white. I suppose you can remove all of that from the script but I would be disappointed. I could care less how many times 'whitewashing" has occured compared to "blackwashing" for the purposes of this discussion.
    Same here. I don't really care for all this race baiting to be quite frank.

    My reasoning for it not wanting to be Idris (whom I love and admire as an actor btw) in the role really is as 'superficial' as me wanting to see a Roland as closely described in the books as possible. In my minds eye I always pictured Roland as a tall, lanky, blue eyed ghost of a man as described by King several times, and Elba does not meet that description. Simple as that.

    If I'm being bullheaded for wanting that, well, fuck it. So be it.
    I gotta agree with you here. It's rather well established that, King had Clint Eastwood in mind when he created the character. So any casting of the role should bear that in mind. IMHO Idris Elba is a fine actor and I have loved his work in film and TV, but Roland he is not. By the same token could you see, Tom Cruise playing "Django"????? A great film BTW.

    Having said all of that, I agree that "white washing" has unfortunately occurred in the past and present and should be avoided/not tolerated. However, some things/roles are what they are and that is it. You can't have a "Black American" portray say, Richard Nixon any more than you can have a "White American" portray Martin Luther King.
    Haha - but we had an ENGLISH actor portray Richard Nixon in Anthony Hopkins. Where's the outrage?

    Roland DOES NOT EXIST. HE'S A CARTOON. Its like being offended Jar Jar Binks was created with Windows instead of Mac software.

    I think it's hysterical that the people saying I'm "RACE BAITING!!!!" are the ones with the problem with the race of a character. I don't care if Elba portrays Roland, don't care if he doesn't - he MIGHT be cast, probably won't be, but even the rumor got people all ginned up.

    My point is that if you're worried about the color of a fictional character in a fictional land then you are primarily and literally concerned with skin-deep, shallow, meaningless attributes and you should be embarrassed to type the words. It's a world of 6 billion people and we all don't look alike, and you're lucky they don't want to appeal to the China market by casting Chow Yun-Fat (which I bet would get LESS complaints, actually).

    "He is blond haired and blue eyed and that's how I want to see him." Do you understand how shallow that is? How narrow minded? How unwilling you are to give up YOUR worldview for a different portrayal and different experience?

    Nobody's going to change their minds because this is one of those topics where people are too afraid to confront their own (obvious) racial opinions. I get it.

    if Tom Cruise played Django, then it becomes a different movie - it's a movie about BLACK SLAVES, so a white actor doesn't make sense for the story. If Roland is black, white or green it doesn't have any impact on the story - except that certain audiences will be more "comfortable" with a hero that fits their expectations.

    For crying out loud, it's fucking MAGIC in a world of wizards and a magic tower - put some blue contacts in Elba's head and there you go, he's blue-eyed. Jesus fucking criminy.

    For that matter, the book was inspired by Robert Browning's poem, and Browining is English and Elba is English - so he's a lot closer to the part than any American would be.

    Bottom line, it's lazy, unimaginative and pigheaded to get wrapped up in the color of a fictional character in a fictional world - you might not want it to be, but it is.

    Actually, I understand what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree, but we do KNOW that, King created the fictional character from viewing "The Good, The Bad and the ugly" and as such, Clint Eastwood. That's a fact. I understand what you are saying otherwise and agree except for the "racial" overtones. I do think that, Idris would be a great consideration for, Eddie if you wish to shake things up a bit. I apologize for being "Old School, White American". I am doing my best to change, but this one just seems like change for change's sake IMHO

    Call me what you will, but I do not believe I am a racist and if you knew where I grew up in N.Y. and who my friends were you wouldn't call me that either. I judge a person on their character and personality. Not the color of their skin. I know it sounds contrite, but my best friends growing up were of other races. They were the folks I could count on, always!!!
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  21. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Actually, I understand what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree, but we do KNOW that, King created the fictional character from viewing "The Good, The Bad and the ugly" and as such, Clint Eastwood. That's a fact. I understand what you are saying otherwise and agree except for the "racial" overtones. I do think that, Idris would be a great consideration for, Eddie if you wish to shake things up a bit. I apologize for being "Old School, White American". I am doing my best to change, but this one just seems like change for change's sake IMHO
    But see, that's the easy out - "it's change for change's sake!" No - it's a multi-billion dollar entertainment company looking at their options and saying "Idris Elba is hot right now, and will make us money." Nothing they do is "change for change's sake," and that's naiive, I'm sorry. I'm serious - I wouldn't be shocked if it was Chow Yun-Fat, so they get the Chinese market. Personally, I do NOT think it will even be Elba - I just don't care if it is, and it would be neat, I think. But whatever.

    Idris Elba is exactly NOT Eddie - I mean, come on, Elba is a tall, taciturn guy who's exactly the opposite of the wisecracking Eddie. For that matter, if they cast "Good, Bad and Ugly" in 2015, they'd probably cast Samuel Jackson - that's basically what Tarantino just did.

    As I said before - this is a movie where the best actor should get the job, period. And if you don't like Elba AS AN ACTOR, no problem, I get that. But Clint Eastwood's "The Man With No Name" is just a lone gunslinger across the ravaged wasteland - it's a CHARACTER, NOT A COLOR. Plus, it came out in 1965, and if teenage Stephen King went to a matinee one time I don't know why that affects what I watch in a movie 50 years later - I wasn't born then. I'm not living in 1965 - it's 2016.

    So I take this seriously because I think white America takes the easy way out ALL THE TIME - we sit back and expect our heroes to look like us, act like us, and sit back comfortably in our white world, and we can't imagine a world that doesn't look like that - it's lazy and uncreative, and fearful, frankly. The gunslinger can be a black guy, a white guy, an Irish guy, a Korean guy - he's going to find a tower with some friends, that's ALL that's important to the story (and what, a white American is going to use words like "ka-tet?")

    As I said in the start, I can find 50 movies where people of color were played by white actors - I bet you can't find a baker's dozen of the reverse, and we get all offended when every once in awhile it goes the other way...then it's CHANGE FOR CHANGE'S SAKE!!! Maybe it is - so what? You can always find a reason to NOT change - that's easy to do. But eventually people got to man the fuck up and be willing to see the world the way 6 billion not-white people see it.

    But I respect you trying to see where I'm coming from - but I'm heated about it, because it's so fucking obvious, and you'd think on a site devoted to fictional worlds and fictional characters we could be more imaginative about this - HE'S NOT FUCKING REAL.

    Finally - nobody here is a racist hiding behind Klan robes....but when someone lets race infect how they see the world - and how they ACCEPT seeing the world - then they're in neighboring zip codes maybe, and I wouldn't want to be even that close. Like I said, I don't know what's in people's hearts...but I think that having a kneejerk reaction to the color of a fictional character who lives in a magic realm of fairies and wizards and talking trains is a symptom of something ugly - I'd try to cure that sort of disease, not give into it.

    The original poem came out of Scandinavian mythology - so if we want to be "accurate" I guess we're stuck with Chris Hemsworth after all.

  22. #2522
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    Oh good Christ!! So now eliminating Elba is OK and NOT a racist act??!!


    Grow up...how old ARE you??

    Think for yourself!!
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  23. #2523
    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahfa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Actually, I understand what you are saying and do not necessarily disagree, but we do KNOW that, King created the fictional character from viewing "The Good, The Bad and the ugly" and as such, Clint Eastwood. That's a fact. I understand what you are saying otherwise and agree except for the "racial" overtones. I do think that, Idris would be a great consideration for, Eddie if you wish to shake things up a bit. I apologize for being "Old School, White American". I am doing my best to change, but this one just seems like change for change's sake IMHO
    But see, that's the easy out - "it's change for change's sake!" No - it's a multi-billion dollar entertainment company looking at their options and saying "Idris Elba is hot right now, and will make us money." Nothing they do is "change for change's sake," and that's naiive, I'm sorry. I'm serious - I wouldn't be shocked if it was Chow Yun-Fat, so they get the Chinese market. Personally, I do NOT think it will even be Elba - I just don't care if it is, and it would be neat, I think. But whatever.

    Idris Elba is exactly NOT Eddie - I mean, come on, Elba is a tall, taciturn guy who's exactly the opposite of the wisecracking Eddie. For that matter, if they cast "Good, Bad and Ugly" in 2015, they'd probably cast Samuel Jackson - that's basically what Tarantino just did.

    As I said before - this is a movie where the best actor should get the job, period. And if you don't like Elba AS AN ACTOR, no problem, I get that. But Clint Eastwood's "The Man With No Name" is just a lone gunslinger across the ravaged wasteland - it's a CHARACTER, NOT A COLOR.

    So I take this seriously because I think white America takes the easy way out ALL THE TIME - we sit back and expect our heroes to look like us, act like us, and sit back comfortably in our white world, and we can't imagine a world that doesn't look like that - it's lazy and uncreative, and fearful, frankly. The gunslinger can be a black guy, a white guy, an Irish guy, a Korean guy - he's going to find a tower with some friends, that's ALL that's important to the story (and what, a white American is going to use words like "ka-tet?")

    As I said in the start, I can find 50 movies where people of color were played by white actors - I bet you can't find a baker's dozen of the reverse, and we get all offended when every once in awhile it goes the other way...then it's CHANGE FOR CHANGE'S SAKE!!! Maybe it is - so what? You can always find a reason to NOT change - that's easy to do. But eventually people got to man the fuck up and be willing to see the world the way 6 billion not-white people see it.

    But I respect you trying to see where I'm coming from - but I'm heated about it, because it's so fucking obvious, and you'd think on a site devoted to fictional worlds and fictional characters we could be more imaginative about this - HE'S NOT FUCKING REAL.

    Thank you for the nod to my being"real", but you are missing a point. He was/is real in the authors mind and he was thinking of, Clint. Tell me I am wrong in this thought process. If the author has a clear inspiration for a given character then I believe your theory suffers a major blow. I don't disagree with some of the other roles you have pointed out, you're spot on. This one I believe is a train you have hooked your caboose to that will not ride the rails.

    BTW, you're a black american?


    Also, as unfortunate as it was, in the past "race" was a distinct issue. Wrong? Absolutely, but it was accepted at the time. Kind of some of the reasons I respect, Tarantino films. Django. illustrated what assholes white Americans could be in the day and "Inglorius Basterds" showed the horrors of the select "German" society ( I am of German descent).
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  24. #2524
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    How dare you infer that ANYONE is racist just because they disagree with a fundmental change to how the character is described over 25 years in 8 separate books.

    You need to take a good look at yourself Rahfa.

  25. #2525
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    I've been living with this admittedly fictional character for about half of my life. Not wanting the character changed overmuch seems reasonable to me. If the character is changed dramatically then he will not remain the same character. No matter what that drastic change might be. If they change him to a black guy or other race , a woman, a fat guy, a short guy or any other misrepresentation of the established character then I am opposed to it. I prefer as accurate a characterization as possible. If I want a "different experience" then I'll read a different book.

    I don't agree with "whitewashing" which in many cases is certainly racist. However if the argument is that fictional characters can be altered to suit the capitalistic desires of movie studios, which they can, then whitewashing becomes acceptable.

    Since none of us has any power over the situation it is ludicrous to call us racist.
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