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Thread: Catch 22 - possible spoilers

  1. #1
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    Default Catch 22 - possible spoilers

    welcome to the first book review of 2010 for the dt.com book club

    Hopefully most of you will have finished this by now, just in case i have placed spoilers warning in the title.

    1. what are your thoughts on Catch 22, is it genius or trying too hard?

    2. what did you all think of the style of the book?

    3. what did you think of the characters, were you sympathetic to their plight?

    I am sure there are more questions, theories out there and i shall leave you all to discuss in more details

    for me;
    My thoughts on this book ranged wildly while reading it, and i must say that it was one of the hardest books i have read for a long time. Initially, on reading Letti and Jean say how much they loved this book, i did wonder if something had maybe been lost in translation? I still however, believe the book was trying to hard to be a cult book.

    The style of writing in the book was extremely confusing, however the more i read, i suppose the more i understood why it was written in this whirlwind style. The whole book, characters and their situations was as confusing to them as it was too me.

    For the whole book to be written in that riddling style made it very difficult to feel sympathy for any of the characters. Also - possibley a more important point, none of the characters (to me) where particularly likable. The whole greed, power and corruption made most if not all the characters quite detestable.

    I also found there were too many characters, and i ended up going back quite a few times, because i was unsure which character was which?

  2. #2
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by candy View Post
    1. what are your thoughts on Catch 22, is it genius or trying too hard?
    Genius.

    2. what did you all think of the style of the book?
    Perfect.

    (More later.)

    Initially, on reading Letti and Jean say how much they loved this book, i did wonder if something had maybe been lost in translation?
    Er, you surely know that bears never read anything in translation, unless the book was originally written in those few languages unknown to bears?

    Also, please, let's not move on to another book for at least one month, ok? I so want to participate in discussing Catch 22, but I am awfully, unspeakably busy, and will be for two more weeks, and that which I am doing takes up all of what I call my mental capacities


    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Also, please, let's not move on to another book for at least one month, ok? I so want to participate in discussing Catch 22, but I am awfully, unspeakably busy, and will be for two more weeks, and that which I am doing takes up all of what I call my mental capacities
    no problem, i beleive quite a few people are still reading catch 22, but i had promised to start the thread today - so here i am 'tada'

  4. #4
    Wolf Woofer will become famous soon enough Woofer will become famous soon enough Woofer's Avatar

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    I just got my copy, say sorry, but I'll start reading it right away.

    All my missing books make me sad. We've moved too much and I think some were taken.

    On a totally unrelated but related note: Should I start a new movie poll soon for our next movie?
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


  5. #5
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    All my missing books make me sad. We've moved too much and I think some were taken.


    On a totally unrelated but related note: Should I start a new movie poll soon for our next movie?
    yes love, I think it's time!


    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #6
    Along the Path of the Beam Claude Clay will become famous soon enough Claude Clay's Avatar

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    i was told by my loco Liberian that as we now live in a kinder, gentler society, they only loan out "Catch 'n Release 22"

    i read the original after Fahrenheit 451
    man was i smokin than

    can i still join the discussion group
    can i can i please please
    make a fire for a man and you warm him for the nite
    light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life

  7. #7
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    The only requirement is that you read the book and wish to discuss.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  8. #8
    Weedeater BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE's Avatar

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    Still laboring through this one. I will be back to rant...I mean discuss...later.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  9. #9
    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    It's against regulations to discuss this book without having read it. Copies are available upon request.

  10. #10
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Clay View Post
    i was told by my loco Liberian that as we now live in a kinder, gentler society, they only loan out "Catch 'n Release 22"

    i read the original after Fahrenheit 451
    man was i smokin than

    can i still join the discussion group
    can i can i please please
    come on in! are you sitting comfortabley? good so am i, now tell me your thoughts.....

    you too path.........


  11. #11
    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    kk
    Well, this classic is one of the definitive works of black humor. It was intended to get people to think about society. I sympathize with moral doubt and struggles with incoherency. I found the author's horrors and absurdities credible, recognizable, but perhaps that's due to my background. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy it.

  12. #12
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    Bump;

    please get behind this discussion, i will be posting a vote for the next book soon, but we shall keep discussin this one as long as you all want

  13. #13
    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    Yes, folken: please do. I'd just started getting into this. I'd still like to hear more opinions!

    I appreciate your work on all this, candy, and I don't mean to discount your position here. This novel gets more heavy as it goes along. The large populace of characters detailed seems to be building up a realism which isn't really utilized in the climax. The first time I read it, I found it rather implausible that the same Catch-22 of the beginning became a widespread catch-all. It made me feel like Yossarian was dreaming all of it. I had to make myself think of that as a convention, a metaphor of legalism in general. So, in that sense, I might understand why you said that Heller was "trying too hard." The symbolism works, but you have to intentionally change gears.
    On another level, though, it seems like you might be talking merely about the basic harshness of tragic satire. If so, Catch-22 actually becoming a "cult book" may make more sense if you keep the timing in mind. It was more than a decade before the then-arising radicals of America were ready for "changing the system from within." Maybe readers today should start this book thinking of it as a step in history, and a reminder that culture can be even less sensitive than ours is now.

  14. #14
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    I have not yet read it.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  15. #15
    BAZZINGA candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy is a jewel in the rough candy's Avatar

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    i actually liked the book in a bizarre way, and felt that there was some very valid and painful points raised. The aspect i didn't care for (puts hard hat on) was the scripting of the book, i felt i had to plow through it - you have to admit it is not the easiest book to read. I kind of understood the reason that the book was written it that way, however it also put me off it. Which is a shame, as its a very poignant book. - to me

  16. #16
    Goldmember Kevin will become famous soon enough Kevin will become famous soon enough Kevin's Avatar

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    I read Catch-22 a loooong time ago and I'm re-reading it again as we speak to discuss with y'all. I loved it the first time, found it difficult to read at times but it is a very odd writing style and once you warm up to it a bit, its really a fun book to read.

    I'll probably love it even more the second time, I'm only 20-30 pages in though.

  17. #17
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    be sure to let us know your thoughts on the re-read and if any of your thoughts altered the 2nd time round

  18. #18
    Weedeater BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE is a jewel in the rough BROWNINGS CHILDE's Avatar

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    I had a love/hate relationship with this book throughout the entire read. I agree with all of candy's points. The kaleidoscopic style, as Jean put it, was terribly distracting. I would be reading along, and the story would shift to another setting, with different characters, flashing forward or backward. I was almost disgusted enough to stop about halfway through. (though I'm ultimately glad that I finished it). I also felt that their were too many characters as candy pointed out. By the end of the book, there were several characters that were built up early in the book, and then somewhat forgotten. (Major _____de Coverly and Major Major Major Major to name a couple: two incredibly annoying names I might add) I really only cared for the Chaplain in the book, he seemed like the only moral soul in the entire book. Even Yossarian often acted in a way that made me dislike him. I for one do not see how the style was perfect. Nor, do I see how it complemented the story in anyway. I would be interested to hear any explanation on this point. Most of the story, I felt like I was reading a muddled knockoff of "Who's on First?" written by a very verbose sufferer of Attention Deficit Disorder.

    Well there is the hate, now the love:

    I did greatly appreciate the humor in the story. I laughed right out loud on several occasions. This will almost always endear a story to me. I found many of the passages to be possessed of clever wittisims surpassed only by very few other works that I've read. For every time I said to myself, "WTF where is this going?, I also laughed my freakin ass off. I also liked the message toward the end, and I felt that Yossarian's solution was noble. I started to feel some 1984-esc, "big brother", kind of paranoia at the end with all the interrogations and what not, which made for a more compelling read.

    Overall, I give it a 7/10. I didn't love it as much as Jean, Letti, path and others. But, I didn't hate it either. It was such a tangled style, that I don't think that I could give it a fair evaluation with just one read. I am not going to pick it up anytime in the near future, but I will read it again at some point to see how my thoughts about it evolve.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  19. #19
    Big Pants; Little Feet Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus's Avatar

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    Is it strange that I just read this book a couple days ago, in three days, without knowing this thread was here?

    I love it. I love the characters, I love the confusion, I love the events, I love Yossarian, and the Chaplain, and Milo, and Orr, and Nately, and Nately's Whore... The main characters, the side characters, the different views on death for ones country... I could read it again and again and again. I absolutely love the confusing, time-shifting style of the book. It was a bit off-putting for the first three or four chapters, but I quickly got used to it. If I could, I'd marry the book.
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  20. #20
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candice Dionysus View Post
    Is it strange that I just read this book a couple days ago, in three days, without knowing this thread was here?
    No, it isn't. Nor is it Ka. It's that you're my Little Princess, and it's no wonder at all we do things together even without knowing it. I am not asking if it's strange I suddenly caught myself thinking of you during the reread, for no apparent reason - there's nothing strange about it, that's how things work.

    I love it. I love the characters, I love the confusion, I love the events, I love Yossarian, and the Chaplain, and Milo, and Orr, and Nately, and Nately's Whore... The main characters, the side characters, the different views on death for ones country... I could read it again and again and again. I absolutely love the confusing, time-shifting style of the book. It was a bit off-putting for the first three or four chapters, but I quickly got used to it. If I could, I'd marry the book.
    And that is, in short, what bears were going to say.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. #21
    Big Pants; Little Feet Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candice Dionysus View Post
    Is it strange that I just read this book a couple days ago, in three days, without knowing this thread was here?
    No, it isn't. Nor is it Ka. It's that you're my Little Princess, and it's no wonder at all we do things together even without knowing it. I am not asking if it's strange I suddenly caught myself thinking of you during the reread, for no apparent reason - there's nothing strange about it, that's how things work.
    Yes, and I love it. Life is a wonderful, horrible, confusing hodge-podge of events, just like the book.

    I love it. I love the characters, I love the confusion, I love the events, I love Yossarian, and the Chaplain, and Milo, and Orr, and Nately, and Nately's Whore... The main characters, the side characters, the different views on death for ones country... I could read it again and again and again. I absolutely love the confusing, time-shifting style of the book. It was a bit off-putting for the first three or four chapters, but I quickly got used to it. If I could, I'd marry the book.
    And that is, in short, what bears were going to say.
    And what my brother would probably say, more or less, were he here to say so.
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  22. #22
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    I finished this book yesterday. I didn't think I would get to love the characters this much. In fact I already miss them... I could read about their silly bloody crazy sad and happy stories for long.

    SPOILERS BELOW
    1. what are your thoughts on Catch 22, is it genius or trying too hard?
    Genius. As original as possible. I felt it was really light. I laughed out loudly on the metro and it doesn't happen to me very often. I think/I feel this book just sprang out of the author's head. I didn't feel any force in it at all.

    2. what did you all think of the style of the book?
    Shockingly good. When I started reading it I was so so so surprised and shocked. I needed some time to get used to it but then... it swept me off my feet. I rolled on the floor.
    I didn't think I could really love the characters with this style.. but I did. I truly did.

    3. what did you think of the characters, were you sympathetic to their plight?
    Many of the characters got very close to my heart.
    And of course there were the ones I hated but I loved hating them (for example Milo, I still cannot decide if I would like to spit on him or shake his hands. ).
    I am ever so happy Yossarian is on the run. I got to learn to love and respect him I hope he can find some hot young lady on his way.

    Shame on me I read the book in Hungarian but the translation was incredibly good. So I will try my best to use the right words.

    About some of my favourite characters:
    Milo: As I have written before I don't know if I would like to spit on him right on the face or shake is hands with respect. Such a foxy bastard. When he tried to sell the cotton with chocolate cover to the army... :smiles ear to ear:
    Colonel Cathcart: He and his childish 'good points' 'bad points' and as he could argue with himself for hours...
    Nately: Good old Nately. I loved him so much. He and his whore... and when he had that long argument with that 107-yer-old man. Nately wanted to beat him so much but he was so weak.
    I loved that he tried to be true he tried to be good still he fell in love with a cheap whore and wanted to marry her. He had a great heart.
    Major Major Major Major: First of all what kind of name is that?!?! He is one of my biggest favourites. HAHA! He and his never-ending fears. You can step into his office only when he is NOT there. And his sudden silent riot when he starts writing different names on the letters and reports... kickass. I fell for him.
    Yossarian: My forever favourite. So true-hearted brave and still a bit crazy.

    I could go on and on..

    Why do I say this book is amazing?
    Because it's deadly funny and it brings up really good and important messages. About everything. About life and death.. about sins and morals.
    I don't often meet these two aspects (funny AND meaningful) together in books.

    Roland would have understood.

  23. #23
    Army of the 12 Monkeys pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle is a glorious beacon of light pathoftheturtle's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    I finished this book yesterday. I didn't think I would get to love the characters this much. In fact I already miss them... I could read about their silly bloody crazy sad and happy stories for long.

    SPOILERS BELOW
    1. what are your thoughts on Catch 22, is it genius or trying too hard?
    Genius. As original as possible. I felt it was really light. I laughed out loudly on the metro and it doesn't happen to me very often. I think/I feel this book just sprang out of the author's head. I didn't feel any force in it at all.

    2. what did you all think of the style of the book?
    Shockingly good. When I started reading it I was so so so surprised and shocked. I needed some time to get used to it but then... it swept me off my feet. I rolled on the floor.
    I didn't think I could really love the characters with this style.. but I did. I truly did.

    3. what did you think of the characters, were you sympathetic to their plight?
    Many of the characters got very close to my heart.
    And of course there were the ones I hated but I loved hating them ...

  24. #24
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    double ditto

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #25
    Big Pants; Little Feet Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus is a jewel in the rough Candice Dionysus's Avatar

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    <3
    Random PM's are loved!

    Call me Can.

    Discord Tag: Can*/Tommy (They/Them pronouns)#5588

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