1984

Shall we discuss this book?

1. What do you think about the setting of this novel? Is this novel limited to the historical setting in which it was written? Could it be applied to modern times? And if so, how?

2. What do the ideas of Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace, and Ignorance is Strength mean to you?

3. What are some instances in which "doublethink" is utilized by modern government?

4. What did you find most horrific about the novel?

5. Did the novel end the way that you thought it would?

oo, i just spotted this (it had slipped to page 3!!))

i am going to think about your questions and come back to you tomorrow if that is ok?:)

God, I suck at readin during the summer. I've had the book right next to me the whole time, but I've had no urge to read it. -_-

I'm currently reading this book. Its going good so far, and I hope I enjoy the rest of it. Hopefully I finish it sometime this week.

BTW Jean, considering that this book is somewhat of a parody of Communist Russia/Germany written during the WWII era (i.e. Big Brother = Stalin, Goldstein = Trotsky)and that, as I understand, the book was banned in these countries for a number of years, I am really hoping for some insight from you.
Also, have you read Animal Farm?(I havent yet) If so, how does it compare to 1984? I know that it covers some of the same ideals, albeit in a much more abstract manner. Is the book enjoyable if one does not understand all of the historical implications?

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Originally Posted by BROWNINGS CHILDE

BTW Jean, considering that this book is somewhat of a parody of Communist Russia/Germany written during the WWII era (i.e. Big Brother = Stalin, Goldstein = Trotsky)and that, as I understand, the book was banned in these countries for a number of years, I am really hoping for some insight from you.
Also, have you read Animal Farm?(I havent yet) If so, how does it compare to 1984? I know that it covers some of the same ideals, albeit in a much more abstract manner. Is the book enjoyable if one does not understand all of the historical implications?

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to start with the last question - I think not understanding all of it is a prerequisite for enjoying the book. I am going to expand when I have re-read it, but my two first readings left me very disappointed.

It's one of my forever favourite books.
I will come back to answer the questios but first of all I don't think it's a comedy at all. It's a picture of a possible coming future.. or I don't really know how to express it. But Orwell imaged the future this way. And in many ways he was right about a lot of things.

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Is the book enjoyable if one does not understand all of the historical implications?

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Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by BROWNINGS CHILDE

4. What did you find most horrific about the novel?

5. Did the novel end the way that you thought it would?

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Okay, I can answer these two questions right now.

4. When I was reading it I felt it's becoming true. I felt it wasn't just a fantasy.. much more. Just think about the language.

5. No. No way. It skoched me to pieces. I read it a lot of years ago but I know for weeks I couldn't get over it. I felt so.. hopeless and helpless. It was logical. It was the only way it could and but still..

Spoiler:

I didn't feel the characters failed. I felt w failed. We all. And me too.

I hope it makes some sense.

I looove this book. Of course the scariest part is "Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four, how many fingers am I holding up Winston?" That and the kiddie anti-sex league. Or the sad reality of how true it is all becoming.

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Originally Posted by Letti

It's one of my forever favourite books.
I will come back to answer the questios but first of all I don't think it's a comedy at all.

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I meant "parody" only as an imitation. Obviously, there is nothing comedic about the subject matter.

It's a horror novel, albeit politically-based, cloaked in the guise of realism. By this I mean that there are no slavering monsters jumping out of the shadows to devour puppies and kittens. Instead, we see the very real possibility of a future where nobody trusts anyone else and freedom is slavery. Yes, it's a horror novel.

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Orwell just got the year wrong.

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It appears that Tim Burton is working on a film titled 1984.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000318/

#4. What did I find most horrific about 1984...

The idea that through limiting language, the state can limit ideas and thought itself. ie: If there is no word for "liberty" then one cannot fathom it, therefore, there can be none.

This concept scares the fuck out of me.

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Originally Posted by Cozener

#4. What did I find most horrific about 1984...

The idea that through limiting language, the state can limit ideas and thought itself. ie: If there is no word for "liberty" then one cannot fathom it, therefore, there can be none.

This concept scares the fuck out of me.

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Indeed - excellent point, Coz. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me. Ya, right. Words, language IS power.

“Ignorance is strength.”

This small sentence says so much and translates so well. Ignorance is strength.

A belief in something can be weakened by the knowledge of facts that can detract from that belief. An opinion that is free from the corruption of the opinions of others is held to more firmly. Viewed in a small sense: The proud owner of an Australian Cattle Dog states that the breed is “smarter” than the Basenji. He never bothers to research Basenjis or to watch the behavior of Basenjis. The dog owner reads plenty of literature that talks about how wonderful ACD’s are and, of course, he loves his animal. His ignorance of the impressive things that Basenjis are capable of strengthens his opinion that his dog is more intelligent. One's view of the world can be shaped more by what one doesn't know than what one does know.

In a broader sense: During the Cold War, Americans were given the impression, by propaganda and Hollywood’s need for exciting villains, that the people of the USSR were different from themselves. Americans believed that the Russians wanted to take away our liberty and spread communism all over the world. Americans never really heard any other sides of the story, most particularly the individual Russian’s. Americans were united against the Red threat. Unity, even unity brought about by ignorance, is strength.

If one can take advantage of the ignorance of a faithful but impressionable young man and convince him that to win his place in heaven he must explode himself in a bus terminal full of people, ignorance has most definitely become strength.

In 1984, on top of being a mantra that encouraged you to concentrate on your own life, intentional ignorance to the Party’s actions at home and abroad was the smart tactic. To accept its word in all things and go on with your duties was the safest choice. Those that remained ignorant remained unpunished and alive, thus ignorance is strength. In the US criminals and politicians can feign ignorance to escape accountability. Being able to escape the consequences of your actions and decisions is most definitely a strength.

Ignorance brought about the Inquisition, slavery, and the Holocaust. What power ignorance has! Ignorance is like a hurricane. Its a giant asteroid approaching the planet. Its a calamity.

I've always seen ignorance as our ultimate enemy and these three words serve as a reminder to me not to underestimate the enemy.

1. I think the time period it was written in really enhances the feel of the book, but I think that the book is still very relevant today, and doesn't feel old.

2. It scares me out of my mind, the book does such a good job of developing the environment and the party, and I think that Ignorance really is strength. The ideals seem crazy to me, but in Winston's world they almost make sense.

3. Modern government is built on hypocrisy.

4. The idea of the thought police, and the fact that children were turning their own family in because of the intense amount of brainwashing the government schools have indoctrinated them with.

5. Yes, I felt that Winston had to go through the cycle, and come out closer to the party beliefs. While I didn't want it to happen, it was a very somber ending.



My friend who also read this seems to be under the impression that Winston will be, "taken care of" by the thought police with a bullet to the back of his head sometime after the story ends.

I however think that it is poetic justice (a messed up kind) that Winston is now walking the streets, indoctrinated in something he tryed so hard to rebel against.

What do you think? Will he be killed, or will he live his life out void of all hope and love.

Great book, and for sure in my top ten.

I would rather him be shot in the head. The idea of him living out his days becoming more mindless and supportive of The Party is too horrible to imagine.

I always thought that we were supposed to infer that he would be killed eventually.

Thats what I got.