Why, thankie-sai!Quote:
That was a great post Tik and the end there is really insightful. I learn something new everyday and love the perspective.
Quote:Indeed. O'course, when it says
A very interesting theory. Going by this theory we could assume that
Spoiler:
Spoiler: 10-07-2008 11:46 PMLettiHey darlings... just one thing. You needn't use spoiler tags here. I love to see them anywhere around the forum but here. :)
CK as an ex-gunslinger... it doesn't work for me at all. The idea is really interesting (and shocking) but for me - no way.
We don't get enough information from the books to know the history of the CK and I know there is much more information in the comics still I imagine the CK as an ex-human who was crazy about power who lost or sold his soul many times and became some kind of powerful soulless monster. 10-08-2008 06:52 AMEmpath of the WhiteRecall the King's history: half-human, half-Prim demon. I have to wonder if the drastic differences in the genetics--not sure if this is a good term when speaking of the Prim demons...maybe bloodlines?--would affect the sanity of Los from the get-go. Its like human and mundane meets seemingly insane divinity. That should lead to one conflicted child. 10-08-2008 10:44 AMBrainslingerI thought I'd better use the spoiler tags mainly as I was referring to comic material, but I agree. Anything book related certainly doesn't need spoiler tags here, considering everyone should have read all the books by the time they come here (unless they don't mind being spoiled.) 11-07-2008 08:53 PMSilvermothFasinating concept of the Crimson King as a failed gunslinger. Wasn't it written that he too was descended from Arthur Eld in one of the books? Or (just chucking it out there) the King is Arthur Eld! 11-07-2008 09:34 PMSigTauGimpTik's posts absolutely blew my mind. :scared:
I've never really thought all that much about who the Crimson King actually WAS until reading it...very fascinating stuff. :thumbsup: 11-08-2008 02:20 PMLadyHitchhikerIf Crimson King is a failed gunslinger, does that mean Roland could end up taking HIS place eventually? 11-08-2008 11:23 PMSigTauGimpBut Roland isn't a failed gunslinger...although, it would be a neat idea to think that, what with all the time loops, paradoxes, and levels of the Tower, somehow, after all of his many repeats of his journey, he became aware of his failures, and turned bitter....finally becoming the Crimson King...I know that there are waaayyy too many plot discrepancies for it to actually work, but it's neat to think about...kinda makes ya dizzy.:scared: 11-08-2008 11:46 PMSilvermothI have more faith in Roland then that. I'm sure theres a critical part of the Crimson King's mentality that doesn't exist in Roland's which would stop him from being the apothesis of evil the way the King did 11-18-2008 08:05 AMpathoftheturtleIt's a paradox, obviously, if his motivation for trying to destroy the Tower is his frustration at the results of his failure to destroy the Tower. Which came first?
Quite possible, though, I wot: although his actions are a key factor causing the loop, he may refuse to accept any responsiblity and so get more angry at Gan and lash out more, thus giving himself ever more to be angry about.
The Dark Tower itself is often said to be a dual entity, in that it is an actual tower on one world and also is the multiverse, with all worlds on its various levels. I think that "the top of the Tower" is just another way of saying "the final loop" and that the "true form" of the CK basically is all of the versions of him taken together in a transcendent, mystical whole. 11-19-2008 02:34 PMWuducynn 11-19-2008 03:41 PMBrainslinger 11-19-2008 05:39 PMWuducynn 11-20-2008 08:23 AMpathoftheturtleYar, and the fact that one of the roses had to be used along with the blood of Eld in order to get the color supports the idea that CK's experience with the Tower is what makes him more than mortal.
To clarify my points, though, I'm not so sure about this part: He's suffering the loop, alright, but I'm okay with the idea that what we saw could be more or less the first time. I don't think he was ever much like Roland. 11-20-2008 09:19 AMWuducynnI believe the CK's immortality comes from the fact that he was born part "Great One" of the Prim. Definitely never a gunslinger. He was born to destroy the Tower not to defend it. 11-20-2008 10:55 AMjayson 11-23-2008 07:18 AMLadyHitchhikerI think it's funny they're named the prim. Prim and proper... 11-24-2008 08:01 AMpathoftheturtle 11-24-2008 08:03 AMWuducynnIt's sure something to think on. 12-28-2008 11:55 AMDarkthoughtsRenamed the thread for general discussion of the character. 01-21-2009 11:04 PMKes***Potential Spoilers*** The Crimson KingOkay...my apologies if this has already been discussed. And I hope I got the whole spoiler thing correct. (Mods feel free to fix it if I didn't).
I did a search but couldn't find anything that seemed the same as what I'm about to suggest...
So...one of the things that I thought was left rather undefined in the series is the Crimson King.
It occurs to me that perhaps the Crimson King, Stephen King, and Roland are perhaps all aspects of each other. (It's said in one of the books that Roland looks enough like King to be his father.)
Could the Crimson King be a multiversional Roland who went mad? How else could the Crimson King even have accessed the Tower at all without a sigul of Eld?
This would certainly explain Mordred's parentage and how BOTH could be his father....
Thoughts? I'm still working this all out in my head. 01-22-2009 12:28 AMLettiWow, what an interesting idea.
No, I don't think that Roland and the Crimson King are the same person or twins or anything like that. They exist in the same universe at the same time. We could think that Crimson King is from another universe and he used to be Roland once somewhere far far away... but it's such a strong guess I don't think it stands. No evidence.
I don't think the fact that they both are the fathers of Mordred can be called and proof either because in a world where people can hide in someone's mind (Mia in Susannah's) be pregnant there and then like a fax machine leave the body to deliver the baby... it's not a big thing to make two sperms become one.
Anyway Roland isn't that type of person who just goes mad. When he was fighting with the memory of Jake (there was a boy there was no boy) he could hold on for long. To sum up for me it's out of the question but it's a damn interesting question.
It's true we don't know much about the CK in the DT books but you can find lots of information about him in the comics. 01-22-2009 11:29 AMflaggwalksthelineI do like the comics explanation of the CK but Im not one 100 percent sure? if it's canonical, I suppose it is since I think all the supplements in the back of the issues are canonical while the issues themselves are not, sheemy a robot? farson not just another disguise for flagg/ walter/ marten? puh-leez 01-22-2009 11:31 AMKesNow I haven't read the comics. Is it worth it? 01-22-2009 11:38 AMjaysonAre they worth it? Yes, for the most part they are enjoyable and the art alone is worth it.
Are they canon? The more I think about it, the more I trend towards saying no. Now that doesn't mean it can't be incorporated into one's individual interpretation of the series, but I don't think it's definitively canon as far as objectively answering any questions.
Still, if you are interested in some interesting theories about the CK, there is much of it to be found in the comics.