He liked/disliked buildings? :orely:
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Oh, shit! :rofl:
I disagree that Roland had an Oedipus Complex, or at least that there was any indication of this, but then I think the whole concept of an Oedipal Complex utter bullshit.
I'm not sure if Roland had an Oedipal complex, but King sure as hell does and I think it slips in from time to time, DT included.
One example, if I'm not mistaken, is when Roland
Spoiler: 01-08-2009 08:36 AMLetti 01-08-2009 09:19 AMBrice
:clap: Right on! That's a great way to get people interested in your obvious ideas...belittle them. I'd suggest that the only thing making her greater than you at the moment is the fact that she was kind and respectful and held her tongue in response to your post where you rightfully should have done the same. 01-08-2009 10:23 PMWhitey Appleseed 01-08-2009 10:41 PMLettiBrice meant my second post.
For me "how the blue hell" isn't disrespectful when I saw something really eye-catching or strange I asked my questions this way and I got answers we got into interesting conversations.
To avoid the fights and arguments I won't ask anything from you. I wouldn't like to make you feel uncomfortable here. Not because I am angry or something... let me know when you are open to conversations and you don't look for words and expressions to jump on them and attack. So let me know and I will be happy to ask some things because you see lots of things quite differently. 01-08-2009 10:52 PMalindaIf you knew our Letti, or spent some more time on these boards, you would know that the phrase blue hell is not only endearing, it is also quite correct. We are all here to
share our thoughts on many subjects, and with out the benefit of long standing
friendship, and certain knowledge of idiosyncrasies, I find it useful that when we find a post we do not understand immediately, one can ponder it before a reply. Just my 2 cents worth , now what say we return to the subject of Roland and his mom?
Ryan, do you really think Roland's thoughts/feelings on that first landing were arousal?
I find this theory rather strange, can you please explain it? 01-08-2009 11:42 PMJohn Blaze 01-09-2009 01:38 AMJeanTo the latter question: no, we are not. We are saying that the so-called "psychology" doesn't know shit about psyche and tries to conceal it between some easy-to-sell concepts that exist entirely as the delusions of psychologists; as it often happens with delusions, the longer they exist and the better their terminology develops, the sounder quasi-existence they acquire.
That's, at least, what bears say; Brice may think differently, but, I'm afraid, essentially to the same effect judging by what he already said. 01-09-2009 01:56 AMLettiAnyway Oedipus Complex doesn't have to mean that the kid wants to make love with their own mom or dad (of course it means that too).
When little children are jealous of the parents... for example the little girl around the age of 4 sees that her dad hugs her mom with love. She can become jealous and she wishes if only she could be as important to his dad as his mom is and she would like to step into his mom's shoes. She would like to be the "mom" in their family. It's called Oedipus Complex (or Oedipus Conflict), too.
I have no idea if Roland had it or not (psychologists say most of the children do more or less) but hsi parents weren't close to each other so I don't think he had the chance to be jealous. 01-09-2009 02:41 AMalindaGood point as usual Letti. Our parents are truly and uniquely our "firsts" in many ways.
Our first teachers, often our first "loves". I am not sure at all tho' that what Roland experiences isn't simply a fond memory from deep inside him, I think it was more a mystery to him than a turn on. Weren't his feelings stirred by the memory of an aroma?
Of course my memory being what it is, I may want to read that passage again before anyone takes my comment to heart. The title Princess Alzheimers did not come easily :lol: 01-09-2009 06:17 AMBriceWhitey, I actually meant at no point including that post where she asks "what in the blue hell are you talking about" did Letti intend or demonstrate any disrespect. I am sure most of us have had plenty of situations in life where friends or even family members have asked us what the hell we meant, or were doing, or thinking without intending any disrespect at all. Still, let's move on from this if we can.
Brices and Bears agree. :thumbsup: 01-09-2009 06:26 AMManOfWesternesse".. what in the blue hell.." is a byword around here, and Letti's in particular. We take it more as a term of endearment than a personal attack! :lol:
Anyway....
Letti, I honestly think it was simply a case of:- Roland sees Rhea/Roland draws and shoots (no big surprises there)/Roland (at the last instant & too late to take it back) sees that it is his Mother he has actually killed/ End of.
Roland didn't hate Gabrielle enough to kill her, he maybe didn't really 'hate' her at all?, but was of course disapointed in the road she had gone down (or been led down - though I tend to agree with your assessment that she went down it at least willingly in part).
And I got no sense of any Oedipal conflict there? 01-09-2009 06:27 AMobscurejudeI'm no psychiatrist and I don't play one on t.v. :D I meant the oedipal complex in a generalized sense, which isn't limited to the narrow definition that Bruno gave. There remain several passages in King where arousal is associated with a mother figure in some sense, but I'm not suggesting necessarily by perversion.
Think of the dream that Bobby Garfield had about his mother being chased by men with phallic spears.
Several images of Gabrielle come to mind but I am too tired to think of them specifically right now.
There are things that I want to say, but I fear they may come out wrong since I'm so tired, and honestly, not that comfortable talking about Freud due to my lack of knowledge.
Let me think about some more Alinda, and I'll try to get back to you. :couple:
I know what I want to say, but I just can't make the words come out in a way that would do it justice right now. 01-09-2009 06:31 AMobscurejudeRoland returned to Gilead, in part, to save his mother but that desire was manipulated to result in her death. Its a stretch, but the tragic irony is certainly there, and its that aspect of Oedipus Rex that Aristotle uses when presenting it as the perfect example of tragic poetry in his Poetics.
Again, Oedipal conflicts aren't limited to sickos wanting to bang their mothers as Bruno put it. 01-09-2009 06:35 AMobscurejudeFor the record, I am in no way, very fond of modern psychology and am advocating absolutely nothing beyond an interpretive lens concerning a small aspect of King. I am going to refrain from bashing psychology, though, because I know of several on the site who study it, and I wouldn't want my comments to be taken the wrong way.
Disclaimer over. 01-09-2009 07:58 AMDarkthoughtsMy thoughts to the word!
I'm sure also that there had been moments in Roland's boyhood when he was atrracted to his mother, the passage that Ryan pointed out in particular. But I don't think you need to read too much in to that, no offense to the guys but I think to an adolescent boy a naked/semi naked woman is a naked woman, on the immediate level the fact of whether you're related isn't initially a consideration :D 01-09-2009 08:54 AMThe King of KingsDid they ever explain what happened afterward? I read the books really quickly and I can't remember if he ever had to face anyone in Gilead about that happening. 01-10-2009 06:15 AMWhitey AppleseedLetti, I'm sure you're a real sweetheart and I by no means meant to belittle you, though apparently it was taken that way...thought I'd quote that ole ka-mai Cuthbert, "cry yer pardon, O great one!"...cause your name is in blue and I figure you must be a great one. Still befuddled with the idea that "edifice" was misunderstood. I'm like Eddie, the only talent I have is being a wise-acre, for the most part. I'm sorry for what I am. I'm often bewildered on-line because I say something and it's interpreted in an completely different fashion than I intended. Whew! I'm glad that's over!