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Mr. Rabbit Trick
04-21-2009, 08:31 AM
This was over at SKFakes:
Today, a bank filed a lawsuit against Flatsigned and Tim Miller (The Bank of Nashville v. Flatsigned.Com, Inc., and Tim Miller) in Nashville. The bank asserts that the defendants defaulted on a loan, owe $494,000, and will not hand over a book collection worth an estimated $650,000. The bank is seeking a "writ of possession" which is -- essentially -- a judgment granting it possessory rights in the book collection.

:rock:

wizardsrainbow
04-21-2009, 08:59 AM
Great title Mr. RT

I am sure plenty of people have no sympathy for that devil!

gsvec
04-21-2009, 09:01 AM
:D The value of that collection will be much less if the books aren't authentically signed, though! :lol:

Ka really IS a wheel, ya know!

CRinVA
04-21-2009, 10:32 AM
:D The value of that collection will be much less if the books aren't authentically signed, though! :lol:

Ka really IS a wheel, ya know!


Exactly what I was thinking as I read the first post!!!!!

Earth's Militant Mind
04-21-2009, 11:30 AM
:D The value of that collection will be much less if the books aren't authentically signed, though! :lol:

Ka really IS a wheel, ya know!

Just out of curiosity....before I found out about his rep I bought a 1 of 26 The Best American Short Stories 2007 from him. Is there any reason to believe this is not legit?

carlosdetweiller
04-21-2009, 12:24 PM
Just out of curiosity....before I found out about his rep I bought a 1 of 26 The Best American Short Stories 2007 from him. Is there any reason to believe this is not legit?

He also did another edition (numbered, I think) that had many more copies. I remember thinking how in the heck did he get so many signed copies to do these two specially bound editions? In some of his eBay listings for the numbered copies I thought the signatures were suspect.

divemaster
04-21-2009, 12:44 PM
I considered buying one of the "1 of 100" editions. I really do want the book and the King signature is legit. However, the leather binding was an aftermarket job done by Tim Miller. I'm not sure why, but that soured it for me. If it had been originally published that way, then fine. But some guy buying up 126 copies and re-binding himself? I mean, I could do that, right?

And I couldn't tell you the difference b/t the "deluxe" 1 of 100 and the "super deluxe" 1 of 26 other than I guess you pay more for the first. Don't know why--it's the same book, same signature, and same binding...

Rahfa
04-21-2009, 01:22 PM
You know, I've never had any question about the authenticity of anything he's sold, and he's bought stuff from me, and been perfectly easy to deal with.

I do have questions about the bidding on his auctions however...

Yes, you could rebind a book in a leather binding...Stu at Betts did the same thing with Jerad's Salem's Lot edition and sold them for $500(!)

Earth's Militant Mind
04-22-2009, 12:46 AM
I considered buying one of the "1 of 100" editions. I really do want the book and the King signature is legit. However, the leather binding was an aftermarket job done by Tim Miller. I'm not sure why, but that soured it for me. If it had been originally published that way, then fine. But some guy buying up 126 copies and re-binding himself? I mean, I could do that, right?

And I couldn't tell you the difference b/t the "deluxe" 1 of 100 and the "super deluxe" 1 of 26 other than I guess you pay more for the first. Don't know why--it's the same book, same signature, and same binding...

Actually I got lucky and picked it up for $126 which was what the 1 of 100 go for about. I didn't realize it was 1 of 26 until I got the book because like you said except for the numbers it looks the same. If he did the binding himself he did a preaty good job, it is a nice book. Still, it's good to know that it's not an official limited edition then. I'm suprised that that doesn't cause him legal problems since I don't remember seeing that in the auction.

Earth's Militant Mind
04-22-2009, 12:51 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/FlatSigned-com-Rare-Signed-Book-Inventory-And-Company_W0QQitemZ120409192141QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120409192141&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1240%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Speaking of the Devil......lol anybody want to pay this for his $650,000 collection?

herbertwest
04-22-2009, 01:56 AM
FlatSigned.com Book Selling and Rare Book Inventory - $2,950,000

A unique opportunity to buy FlatSigned.com Inc., an established signed and rare book company. This is a lucrative internet-based business specializing in the procurement and sale of signed collectible books, manuscripts, historical documents, art, and autographs. Annual sales of $1.2 million with $350,000 profit to the owner. 100% owned by a single individual. Included in this sale is an inventory of approximately $8,000,000 in rare, 1st edition and/or signed books. Customer database of over 12,000 with 90% being private buyers. This business has ONE main competitor and it aims to duplicate its competitors success. Business will be sold debt free.

hmmm..
...

jhanic
04-22-2009, 04:09 AM
Well, if he gets his minimum, I'm sure that'll pay his debt load.

John

carlosdetweiller
04-22-2009, 04:29 AM
FlatSigned.com Book Selling and Rare Book Inventory - $2,950,000

A unique opportunity to buy FlatSigned.com Inc., an established signed and rare book company. This is a lucrative internet-based business specializing in the procurement and sale of signed collectible books, manuscripts, historical documents, art, and autographs. Annual sales of $1.2 million with $350,000 profit to the owner. 100% owned by a single individual. Included in this sale is an inventory of approximately $8,000,000 in rare, 1st edition and/or signed books. Customer database of over 12,000 with 90% being private buyers. This business has ONE main competitor and it aims to duplicate its competitors success. Business will be sold debt free.

hmmm..
...

I wonder who he considers his "ONE main competitor"?

jhanic
04-22-2009, 04:34 AM
Maybe it's that guy that sells the "signed" film scripts?!? :P

John

e_taylor
04-22-2009, 04:36 AM
Just a guess, but maybe veryfinebooks?

divemaster
04-22-2009, 05:39 AM
I considered buying one of the "1 of 100" editions. I really do want the book and the King signature is legit. However, the leather binding was an aftermarket job done by Tim Miller. I'm not sure why, but that soured it for me. If it had been originally published that way, then fine. But some guy buying up 126 copies and re-binding himself? I mean, I could do that, right?

And I couldn't tell you the difference b/t the "deluxe" 1 of 100 and the "super deluxe" 1 of 26 other than I guess you pay more for the first. Don't know why--it's the same book, same signature, and same binding...

Actually I got lucky and picked it up for $126 which was what the 1 of 100 go for about. I didn't realize it was 1 of 26 until I got the book because like you said except for the numbers it looks the same. If he did the binding himself he did a preaty good job, it is a nice book. Still, it's good to know that it's not an official limited edition then. I'm suprised that that doesn't cause him legal problems since I don't remember seeing that in the auction.

I think that's a pretty good deal. About what I would be willing to pay. Like I said, I really want the book and I'd rather have a nicely bound one with a King sig than a paperback from Amazon. I'm just not going to pay a "S/L" price for this book. I've put in a couple of lowball bids here and there but didn't end up with one. Yet.

jhanic
04-22-2009, 05:58 AM
I was able to pick up one of the signed trade paperbacks (I think from our tippy4) not long after the publication for a good price. I don't consider rebound books collectibles, although I'm sure there are those of you who don't agree.

John

Mr. Rabbit Trick
04-22-2009, 07:31 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/FlatSigned-com-Rare-Signed-Book-Inventory-And-Company_W0QQitemZ120409192141QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120409192141&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1240%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Speaking of the Devil......lol anybody want to pay this for his $650,000 collection?

The shipping is only $10.95 :wtf:

Mr. Rabbit Trick
05-03-2009, 12:33 AM
www.flatsigned.com has filed for bankruptcy.

http://www.trollerbk.com/portal/?module=intro&c=D704C099-C907-141B-AE6EEAA537F77B14&showcase=1

BROWNINGS CHILDE
05-03-2009, 01:30 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/FlatSigned-com-Rare-Signed-Book-Inventory-And-Company_W0QQitemZ120409192141QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120409192141&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1240%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Speaking of the Devil......lol anybody want to pay this for his $650,000 collection?

The shipping is only $10.95 :wtf:

That was the first thing I noticed too.:wtf:

Reminded me of an excert from Eddie Murphy's Raw.
"Here you go baby, I made 70$, put that with the rest.....
Now we have 300 million and 70$"

Sir_Boomme
05-03-2009, 04:21 AM
You know, I've never had any question about the authenticity of anything he's sold, and he's bought stuff from me, and been perfectly easy to deal with.

I do have questions about the bidding on his auctions however...

Yes, you could rebind a book in a leather binding...Stu at Betts did the same thing with Jerad's Salem's Lot edition and sold them for $500(!)

as far as i know... stu didn't rebind them... to rebind...means that they would have been bound... the existing binding removed... then rebound.

as i remember it... stu bound unbound pages he purchased from jerad. thus, constituting an original different bound book (which i chose NOT to purchase)

not sure if millers was a rebound job...or similar to what stu did... anyone know?

Rahfa
05-03-2009, 08:13 AM
Yes, you're right...Stu took the unbound pages and put them into a new, custom binding of his own.

In the "Best Short Stories" case, I'm not sure how Flatsigned did it...I think they actually rebound the entire book, original soft cover and all...but I have no idea.

Either choice might be prettier on a bookcase because of the leather, but I passed.

jhanic
05-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I feel the same way. To me, these "rebound" books are just not collectibles.

John

e_taylor
05-09-2009, 05:27 AM
Not that I like to see booksellers fail, but in this particular case, Tim Miller's demise brings a smile to my face. Countless times he would take to the internet after arguments with defrauded customers and go on and on about how he built his company from the ground and how it is now immensely successful, all because of him. Way to run your business Tim!

Mordred Deschain
05-09-2009, 05:58 AM
I like this threaD!

lophophoras
07-24-2009, 08:02 AM
Did anyone else get this email?

Something BIG has happened and I am emailing to see if you wish to be a part. Stephen King has agreed to sign books for me. We will have everything from "The Plants", "Gunslingers", "The Shining" and "Carries" available. ALL will be First Printings in original dustjackets. Is there a different title you would like to have signed and would you like to have one of the titles mentioned above? If so it is important that you email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com ASAP. Thank you for buying my books!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
President

:orely:

e_taylor
07-24-2009, 08:12 AM
Did anyone else get this email?

Something BIG has happened and I am emailing to see if you wish to be a part. Stephen King has agreed to sign books for me. We will have everything from "The Plants", "Gunslingers", "The Shining" and "Carries" available. ALL will be First Printings in original dustjackets. Is there a different title you would like to have signed and would you like to have one of the titles mentioned above? If so it is important that you email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com ASAP. Thank you for buying my books!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
President

:orely:

Well seeing as this scum was going bankrupt last I heard, coupled with the fact that King wouldn't sign piles of books for a book dealer under any normal circumstances, I'm going to say this is a scam.

My guess is that you'd have to pre-pay, and then he'll finish up his bankruptcy filings and you can kiss your money goodbye.

Darkmaniscoming
07-24-2009, 08:19 AM
HMMMMMMM............
(Darkman in phone booth)





Did anyone else get this email?

Something BIG has happened and I am emailing to see if you wish to be a part. Stephen King has agreed to sign books for me. We will have everything from "The Plants", "Gunslingers", "The Shining" and "Carries" available. ALL will be First Printings in original dustjackets. Is there a different title you would like to have signed and would you like to have one of the titles mentioned above? If so it is important that you email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com ASAP. Thank you for buying my books!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
President

:orely:

Well seeing as this scum was going bankrupt last I heard, coupled with the fact that King wouldn't sign piles of books for a book dealer under any normal circumstances, I'm going to say this is a scam.

My guess is that you'd have to pre-pay, and then he'll finish up his bankruptcy filings and you can kiss your money goodbye.

jhanic
07-24-2009, 09:06 AM
Avoid him. As Eric said, the whole enterprise reeks!

John

Randall Flagg
07-24-2009, 09:34 AM
Run away from him as fast as you can.

lophophoras
07-24-2009, 09:44 AM
I wonder why I get emails from him.

I do not recall ever buying anything from him.

:orely:

tippy4
07-24-2009, 02:12 PM
I just got the following email......


Dear xxxx:

Something BIG has happened and I am emailing to see if you wish to be a part. Stephen King has agreed to sign books for me. We will have everything from "The Plants", "Gunslingers", "The Shining" and "Carries" available. ALL will be First Printings in original dustjackets. Is there a different title you would like to have signed and would you like to have one of the titles mentioned above? If so it is important that you email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com ASAP. Thank you for buying my books!

Warmest Regards,

Tim Miller
President
www.FlatSigned.com

WTF?

Ricky
07-24-2009, 02:58 PM
Hmm...this guy must have a nice relationship with SK. And how nice of him to sign whatever's put in front of him, only to be re-sold! :wtf:

Crock-o-crap.

Brice
07-24-2009, 04:14 PM
:wtf:

CRinVA
07-24-2009, 05:02 PM
as the recipient of the msg from Tim Miller you should forward this to King's assistant Marsha. They need to know what he is up to!

Rahfa
07-24-2009, 05:35 PM
Wow....that is really, really sketchy...definitley should be forwarded to SK's office...

This is some interesting reading:
http://flatsigned.com/AusPeayArticle.pdf

turtlex
07-24-2009, 06:30 PM
Lop - That's a weird email. I get emails from flatsigned frequently, but not that one. I'd stick with these guys here and advise to stay away from that thing...

Um.... what the heck does "Darkman in phone booth" mean? :lol:

tippy4
07-24-2009, 07:26 PM
as the recipient of the msg from Tim Miller you should forward this to King's assistant Marsha. They need to know what he is up to!


Done

Rahfa
07-25-2009, 06:15 AM
Yeah, that "declare bancrupty and keep the money" idea actually makes sense...on the other thread I posted a link to an article he was interviewed for. But...sketchy as it is, I have sold stuff to him, so some of his stuff is def. legit....But I could never see SK doing a private signing for an autograph dealer.

herbertwest
07-26-2009, 05:25 AM
Havent FlatSigned recently been sold because of debts/ court issues?

tippy4
07-26-2009, 08:40 AM
Am I the only one who received this email?!?!

I feel cetain that it is a scam of some kind...but is it a scam by FLATSIGNED....or someone pretending to be FLATSIGNED?

e_taylor
07-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Rick -

In the intriguing auctions thread there was a quick discussion about this from others who got the same email. Maybe someone can merge them on over to this thread?

My guess is that Tim Miller himself is behind this scam.

If it was such and such pretending to be such and such, why not use a fake Betts Books email?

Maybe send him an email asking whats what?

Randall Flagg
07-26-2009, 09:35 AM
Rick -
In the intriguing auctions thread there was a quick discussion about this from others who got the same email. Maybe someone can merge them on over to this thread?

Done.

e_taylor
07-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Thanks Jerome!

Ari_Racing
07-26-2009, 06:43 PM
Being Marsha out of the office due to holidays, the news from SK office maybe will have to wait...

Nerak
07-27-2009, 08:29 AM
she's back today..right?

Ricky
07-27-2009, 08:35 AM
Yup! :)

Darkmaniscoming
07-27-2009, 10:49 AM
I can report that this email is TRUE!!!!!
although the part of signing whatever you want is a little stretch.
Stephen signed 12 books for Tim.
NO PLANT though

lophophoras
07-27-2009, 12:21 PM
Am I the only one who received this email?!?!

I feel cetain that it is a scam of some kind...but is it a scam by FLATSIGNED....or someone pretending to be FLATSIGNED?

I received the email as well.

Rahfa
07-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Wow....that is real surprising....what's the background? Was there any word on the how/why he got it scheduled?

Randall Flagg
07-27-2009, 03:37 PM
Not sure why King did this, but I wouldn't send the guy a penny-he's in terrible legal and financial difficulty. He may have those books, but counting on him to send one to you is VERY risky. If one could meet him in person and exchange money for the book that would be great.

Jerome

tippy4
07-27-2009, 04:49 PM
I can report that this email is TRUE!!!!!
although the part of signing whatever you want is a little stretch.
Stephen signed 12 books for Tim.
NO PLANT though


What is your souce for this information?

If he did in fact just sign 12 books, then it is not a "little stretch", it is a lie.

Rahfa
07-27-2009, 04:51 PM
Yeah...good point...plus, sellling books that have been signed is a lot different than being able to take requests, which the first post implies/states as well...

tippy4
07-30-2009, 06:20 AM
I just got a note from King's assistant.

Yes, King did sign 12 books for Tim Miller in exchange for a book King had been looking for.

Steve did not agree to do any more.

turtlex
07-30-2009, 06:21 AM
Ah-ha!

Now that makes sense!

Dman - I'm wondering... what was your source?

Brice
07-30-2009, 06:23 AM
I'd give Steve a book if he signed twelve of my books too.

turtlex
07-30-2009, 06:25 AM
Um... if Stephen King wants one of my books... he can just have it. Then.. if he wants, he could sign one of mine. Cripes.

Randall Flagg
07-30-2009, 06:46 AM
I too wonder what book.:orely:

turtlex
07-30-2009, 06:49 AM
I too wonder what book.:orely:

He was probably looking for one of the LSoE's with a Whelan remarque... :lol:

herbertwest
07-30-2009, 06:59 AM
I wonder if we'll know the name of that book... it's so starts to bugging me now :s

tippy4
08-03-2009, 08:31 PM
Well, the first of the twelve showed up today....

Stephen King SIGNED Ultra Rare True 1st GUNSLINGER (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130322579341&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D130322579341%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1)

I like how he says that he will include a note for your insurance company stating that the book is worth $6,500. I'm no lawyer, but isn't that fraud?

Hutch
08-03-2009, 08:34 PM
this one showed up 2 1/2 hours before that auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-THE-SHINING-Rare-Book_W0QQitemZ380145465534QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item58826f78be&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14


Well, the first of the twelve showed up today....

Stephen King SIGNED Ultra Rare True 1st GUNSLINGER (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130322579341&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D130322579341%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1)

I like how he says that he will include a note for your insurance company stating that the book is worth $6,500. I'm no lawyer, but isn't that fraud?

Rahfa
08-03-2009, 10:12 PM
I can't recall seeing a sale of a signed trade GS anywhere near $4500...the s/l sure, but not a trade...

I would have liked to know what book it was that SK wanted!

mystima
08-03-2009, 11:11 PM
what struck me as odd is the fact that he put "The Plant" in the mix...wasn't that an e-Book? that would be kinda hard to sign if ya asked me...:orely:

Brice
08-04-2009, 02:16 AM
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1127

turtlex
08-04-2009, 03:04 AM
So... About how much are these signed books really worth?!? Given today's market?

Rahfa
08-04-2009, 05:57 AM
Well, FS typically gets high prices on their auctions...and they already have some action...but is that a real value? I would say not.

Patrick
08-05-2009, 03:26 PM
this one showed up 2 1/2 hours before that auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-THE-SHINING-Rare-Book_W0QQitemZ380145465534QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item58826f78be&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14


Well, the first of the twelve showed up today....

Stephen King SIGNED Ultra Rare True 1st GUNSLINGER (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130322579341&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D130322579341%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1)
...

Excerpted from the endless verbiage in his auctions:

"...Included in these books were many of his titles and this week we will be auctioning WITH NO RESERVE many of those and other rare Stephen King books we already had in our inventory..."

Please go read the full paragraph for yourselves, I'd be interested in your interpretations. It sounds like these auctions are not limited to the twelve books newly signed, but any given auction may be a book already in his inventory.

agrabin
08-10-2009, 04:11 AM
I understand that from you guys' point of view this matter about Tim Miller has been hammered to death...'scum' 'bankrupt' 'scam' 'reeks' 'avoid' 'run away' and 'crock-o-crap' being just a few of the words and phrases used about him. However, since it would appear that he may genuinely have had books signed by SK, I'm just curious about why his current auctions for these are attracting such little interest. Since I've had no dealings with Flatsigned I have no first hand knowledge of how Miller operates but I'm aware of the controversy which surrounds him. Has anyone on here had a bad experience with him? Would it be completely naive of me to suggest that this might actually be an opportunity for some of us to acquire an SK signed book, some of which (at present anyway) seem to be very reasonably priced?

Just a thought*.

*Please feel free to shoot my thinking out of the water

Mr. Rabbit Trick
08-10-2009, 04:17 AM
Would it be completely naive of me to suggest that this might actually be an opportunity for some of us to acquire an SK signed book, some of which (at present anyway) seem to be very reasonably priced?


The books will not remain "reasonably priced". They will be shill bided up to a more "normal" price.

jhanic
08-10-2009, 04:44 AM
I think that too many of us have had bad dealings with flatsigned to take ANYTHING he says as the truth. Probable instances of shill bidding, fake signatures, etc. do tend to wear his reputation down. Granted, he has offered some authentic items on occasion, but, with the costs involved, who wants to take a chance?

John

Brice
08-10-2009, 04:48 AM
I've just heard enough bad about him to not ever want to take the chance.

carlosdetweiller
08-10-2009, 05:07 AM
Even if the current auctions are legitimate (and I think they are) he has defaced the items by permanently affixing those annoying authentication certification labels to the front free endpapers. I asked him fairly recently if those were permanent and he said that there would be definite damage to the paper if they were removed.

Brice
08-10-2009, 05:09 AM
??? He permanently attaches labels to the books? Now I know I wouldn't want them...not for free.

agrabin
08-10-2009, 05:33 AM
Ok guys, I'm convinced. Thanks for your advice.

turtlex
08-10-2009, 05:48 AM
I've just heard enough bad about him to not ever want to take the chance.

This.

agrabin
08-10-2009, 06:09 AM
Thanks

Darkmaniscoming
08-10-2009, 06:25 AM
especially considering that items with "global' certificates have also been removed for being fake...:pirate:

Rahfa
08-10-2009, 06:54 AM
Even if the current auctions are legitimate (and I think they are) he has defaced the items by permanently affixing those annoying authentication certification labels to the front free endpapers. I asked him fairly recently if those were permanent and he said that there would be definite damage to the paper if they were removed.

I had totally forgotten about that...I have no clue why he would ever do that...did he give any reason?

I mean, from a branding standpoint, the more he 'tags,' the more credible they seem down the road, until people don't see anything wrong with them....the entire CGC comic situation puts them in hard-plastic shells, after all, which is totally absurd, but it seems to work for collectors.

e_taylor
08-11-2009, 04:26 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-Ultra-Rare-1st-THE-PLANT-Part-I-One_W0QQitemZ380146218911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item58827af79f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Why destroy a limited edition though???

Theres no way a signed/limited is going to be fake.... what the hell is this guy thinking?

jhanic
08-11-2009, 05:45 AM
He does it because he's an ass. (Excuse the language, but I can't think of a better way to describe him.)

John

Rahfa
08-11-2009, 05:52 AM
Booksellers from way back used to pencil in their prices on the inside corner, somewhat similar to this...but it was less obvious and obtrusive.

The only reason is branding, I guess...the more 'authentication' stickers floating around, the more legit he appears to be...but if he ever goes out of business? Then, it might as well be a bunny sticker from a kid's Happy Easter greeting card...

Brice
08-11-2009, 05:55 AM
He does it because he's an ass. (Excuse the language, but I can't think of a better way to describe him.)

John

Now that's an answer I can believe.

agrabin
08-11-2009, 06:09 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-Ultra-Rare-1st-THE-PLANT-Part-I-One_W0QQitemZ380146218911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item58827af79f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Why destroy a limited edition though???

Theres no way a signed/limited is going to be fake.... what the hell is this guy thinking?


I've looked at his other auctions but this one (The Plant) is the only one which shows a sticker. I know there may well be a shill bidder(s) in there somewhere but nevertheless, 7 bidders at present have made a total of 10 bids taking the price up to almost $700.
I don't know what a realistic price for this is in today's market but it will be interesting to see what it eventually goes for.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, and those of you who know me will realise this, I am NOT an apologist for Tim Miller...just curious.

divemaster
08-11-2009, 06:14 AM
I'm one of the bidders on that auction. My eBay watch list is at the max limit (200 items) so the best way for me to keep track of high value or reserve auctions is to make a quick low bid. Good workaround way to expand my watch list.

If it's an item I really want I can come back later with a realistic bid. But not for this one. Can't afford any Plant items right now.

jhanic
08-11-2009, 06:22 AM
I see this inclusion of the sticker to be the equivalent of making it an ex-library copy, with its stamps, etc. It seriously devalues the book, but there are still people out there who would be happy to include such a volume in their collection. I think that, at its current price of $700, it is over-priced, but that's just me.

John'

turtlex
08-11-2009, 06:52 AM
Booksellers from way back used to pencil in their prices on the inside corner, somewhat similar to this...but it was less obvious and obtrusive.

The only reason is branding, I guess...the more 'authentication' stickers floating around, the more legit he appears to be...but if he ever goes out of business? Then, it might as well be a bunny sticker from a kid's Happy Easter greeting card...


I think maybe I'd prefer a bunny sticker.

agrabin
08-11-2009, 07:31 AM
Agreed John. Even if I wanted this which I don't - and could afford it which I can't - the sticker would put me off buying it.

Mr. Rabbit Trick
08-11-2009, 07:32 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-Ultra-Rare-1st-THE-PLANT-Part-I-One_W0QQitemZ380146218911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item58827af79f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Why destroy a limited edition though???

Theres no way a signed/limited is going to be fake.... what the hell is this guy thinking?

The 3 x Plant are not strictly S/L. They are unsigned/unnumbered (2&3) out of series copies that were all signed at the same time.

Proper S/L have dates of '82, '83 & '85 as he gave them away for Christmas on those years.

agrabin
08-11-2009, 07:44 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-Ultra-Rare-1st-THE-PLANT-Part-I-One_W0QQitemZ380146218911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item58827af79f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Why destroy a limited edition though???

Theres no way a signed/limited is going to be fake.... what the hell is this guy thinking?

The 3 x Plant are not strictly S/L. They are unsigned/unnumbered (2&3) out of series copies that were all signed at the same time.

Proper S/L have dates of '82, '83 & '85 as he gave them away for Christmas on those years.


Surely this one is numbered (118/200) and year dated (1982).

Darkmaniscoming
08-11-2009, 07:44 AM
Yes these are different for sure.

agrabin
08-11-2009, 07:47 AM
...then again, why is the date written below SK's signature 12/98?...think I'm lost here...

jhanic
08-11-2009, 08:26 AM
He's also now offering Plant #2 with a similar sticker and certificate. This one appears to be unnumbered, although also supposedly signed with the 12/98 date.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-ULTRA-RARE-Valuable-THE-PLANT-2-SIGNED_W0QQitemZ140338316468QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAnt iquarian_Collectible?hash=item20acd0c4b4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Interestingly enough, it also has 10 bidders, many of whom are the same as among those for Plant #2.

John

Brice
08-11-2009, 08:29 AM
I'm sure that's merely a coincidence John. Naturally if they're the shill bidders interested in one they're interested in the other.

jhanic
08-11-2009, 08:34 AM
My thoughts exactly.

John

Mr. Rabbit Trick
08-11-2009, 09:18 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-Ultra-Rare-1st-THE-PLANT-Part-I-One_W0QQitemZ380146218911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item58827af79f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Why destroy a limited edition though???

Theres no way a signed/limited is going to be fake.... what the hell is this guy thinking?

The 3 x Plant are not strictly S/L. They are unsigned/unnumbered (2&3) out of series copies that were all signed at the same time.

Proper S/L have dates of '82, '83 & '85 as he gave them away for Christmas on those years.


Surely this one is numbered (118/200) and year dated (1982).

I did say Nos. 2&3. This is No.1

Darkmaniscoming
08-11-2009, 09:37 AM
#3 went up yesterday as well, again no number same date.....whatever good luck to anyone who plays that game....

But cujo 2nd print up close to $400 all ready????? Who's doin that????

Spare me please...must cost a lot of money when your shill bids win.

:orely:

Rahfa
08-11-2009, 11:03 AM
That's the part that doesn't make sense...you can have all the shill bidders in the world, but they only work if there's a high bidder to shill against.

He does advertise in a lot of different places, and branding does work...there's a ticket agency up here that sells Red Sox tickets for WAY above what many other ticket brokers sell for - like $750 for something that usually sells for $300...but they advertise everywhere, and people don't know they could/should go elsewhere.

I'm not saying FS is like that, but I think that's part of it.

agrabin
08-11-2009, 11:38 PM
..."I did say Nos. 2&3. This is No.1"...


...I stand corrected

Darkmaniscoming
08-14-2009, 09:11 AM
So I got 2 items today with those Global stickers on them...
I have been very curious about them.....the items cost me only around $50 for both and this is part of the reason I bought...the stickers are rather tiny and on these items they dont really bug me because I do plan on reselling one at least and think that it might actually encourage certain collectors to buy....(although again I will state that GLOBAL is NOT 100% accurate in their assessments)
Still not sure that I would want one of these on a big ticket item that I planned to die with still in my hands....
So what does Global charge for this service, anyone know ? cause it really doesn't make sense...or does flatsigned own the company or sleep with the owners daughter?

Rahfa
08-14-2009, 10:16 AM
Last I knew - Flatsigned DOES own the company, which is why it's so lame. But, I'm not 100 percent sure on that. I know they owned a company at one point, don't know for certain that it's this one.

At least CGC, the comic people, are independent authenticators...

Patrick
08-17-2009, 01:26 PM
...
The only reason is branding, I guess...the more 'authentication' stickers floating around, the more legit he appears to be...but if he ever goes out of business? Then, it might as well be a bunny sticker from a kid's Happy Easter greeting card...
I think maybe I'd prefer a bunny sticker.
:rofl: I'm with you.

Rahfa
08-17-2009, 03:50 PM
There aren't any details, but somebody spent $5700 with FS, then left bad feedback about customer service issues...

Bad feedback or not, someone did spend that much money with him...

Bev Vincent
11-15-2009, 12:43 PM
I received the following e-mail this weekend.


Dear Ladies/Gentlemen:

One of my staff members found your "Identifying First Editions" regarding Stephen King books on the net yesterday. It was very well done and I congratulate you.

There is one thing that I wanted to request and another suggestion. That is that King's "Best American Short Stories" does not seem to be listed at all and I published a Leather, Signed/Limited Edition of that title. My company FlatSigned Press, Inc. was able to buy 100 copies at the signing event in New York City at the time of release and these were bound in leather and leather, matching slipcases were hand made. The book itself did not change so the identifying marks on the copyright page for the First Edition/First Printing is the same. Would you be willing to add this title and both versions to your guide?

Also, I work closely with and am a contributing author to the "Sanders Price Guide." If you are not familiar with this please let me know and I will share more. It is "THE" guide to values of autographs including Stephen King. There is a current idea to include values of signed books in the next edition. Whether that happens or not, your guide would be a very nice page to include. If the people noted as having done this work are given credit, would we have permission to include this in the publication? I can't say for sure it would be included either way until I get the ok from the key-players with "Sanders." It's just a thought. Please let me know.

Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
President
www.FlatSigned.com Inc.

To be honest, I can't think of any reason to allow him to reprint the guide in this Sanders book, but I don't really know much about Sanders guide, and I seem to remember hearing some negative things about Miller and FlatSigned.

Please let me know your opinion about this, either here or by PM or e-mail.

Thanks,

Bev

Randall Flagg
11-15-2009, 12:44 PM
Don't associate with Flatsigned.

This thread discusses Tim Miller and Flatsigned at great length:
Flatsigned and Stephen King? (All threads regarding Flatsigned) (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=8889)

After a reasonable time, this thread will be merged into the Flatsigned and Stephen King? (All threads regarding Flatsigned) (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=8889) thread.

ChristineB
11-15-2009, 01:45 PM
What I don't understand is why he would want you to include "best american short stories" in a list of SK books. That isn't a book by him, it just was edited by him. *shrug*

One other thing, do you have a different 1/1 list then the one that is on SK.com?

jhanic
11-15-2009, 02:00 PM
I'd avoid Tim Miller and flatsigned completely. Just my two cents worth.

John

Bev Vincent
11-15-2009, 02:13 PM
Yeah, it looked like an attempt to get free advertising for that rebound book to me. I only have the one that's on sk.com. Thanks for the advice, folks.

tippy4
11-15-2009, 03:51 PM
I received the following e-mail this weekend.


Dear Ladies/Gentlemen:

There is one thing that I wanted to request and another suggestion. That is that King's "Best American Short Stories" does not seem to be listed at all and I published a Leather, Signed/Limited Edition of that title. My company FlatSigned Press, Inc. was able to buy 100 copies at the signing event in New York City at the time of release and these were bound in leather and leather, matching slipcases were hand made. The book itself did not change so the identifying marks on the copyright page for the First Edition/First Printing is the same. Would you be willing to add this title and both versions to your guide?



To be honest, I can't think of any reason to allow him to reprint the guide in this Sanders book, but I don't really know much about Sanders guide, and I seem to remember hearing some negative things about Miller and FlatSigned.

Please let me know your opinion about this, either here or by PM or e-mail.

Thanks,

Bev

Don't do it Bev.

I love his claim that he PUBLISHED an edition of The Best American Short Stories.

He took a paperback book and had it rebound.

Does that mean every time I wrap a Brodart cover around one of my books I become a publisher?!?!?! :P

Hutch
11-15-2009, 05:17 PM
As many have expressed.... his leather bound edition was a first. Now it's something else. I'm sure it's a nice upgrade from the PB in terms of presentation appeal.


Yeah, it looked like an attempt to get free advertising for that rebound book to me. I only have the one that's on sk.com. Thanks for the advice, folks.

Dolan
11-15-2009, 08:46 PM
Just when you think this guy can't get any lower. Any move of his makes me sick. Desperate attempt at self PR.

jemaher
11-15-2009, 08:55 PM
Tim is a businessman>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course he is out to make a buck.
has he ever knowingly cheated anyone or sold a fraud, fake, or forged King item?
over the years, i have bought lots of books from him. when i was green and naive, I overpaid. MY mistake, not his. it does no one any good to propagate ill will. If you don't like him, there is a perfect solution..... Don't buy from him.

tippy4
11-15-2009, 09:05 PM
I read the above from Tim Miller, and the word that comes to mind is smarmy.

While I have no first hand knowledge of him cheating anyone, his auctions often seem to hit suspisciously high prices.

Take this one for example....

S/L LSOE Sells For $701 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140355281907&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT)

I would be thrilled to sell one for $500....but I doubt it would happen.

lophophoras
11-16-2009, 05:07 AM
He has definitely learned how to work Ebay and shill bidding to his advantage.

Bev Vincent
11-16-2009, 08:18 AM
Huh. This just turned up today: Book Publisher Calls for the Release of Secret JFK Assassination File (http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?z=4&a=1866)

Nerak
11-16-2009, 09:17 AM
WOW!!!!

"He is a Lyndon Baines Johnson Scholar, has served as White House Press Correspondent, and worked directly for the U.S. Congress. He held certified press credentials for the White House, the U.S. House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate and was named one of George W. Bush's 1,000 Points of Light by the Commercial Board of Appeals." :scared:

Why does he seem so smary to us then?

gsvec
11-16-2009, 09:27 AM
Still looks a little like free advertising to me. But that's me.

ChristineB
11-16-2009, 10:33 AM
WOW!!!!

"He is a Lyndon Baines Johnson Scholar, has served as White House Press Correspondent, and worked directly for the U.S. Congress. He held certified press credentials for the White House, the U.S. House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate and was named one of George W. Bush's 1,000 Points of Light by the Commercial Board of Appeals." :scared:

Why does he seem so smary to us then?

Considering that we mostly deal with him from a ebay perspective and someone here has gotten corespondence from him where he pretty much admits he has shill bidders there, that is why we don't like him much.

I live in Nashville, and once my hubby's Strat gets out of the shop for maintainence I will be going to his shop to scope out his pricing there. I suspect his stuff is going to be way over priced. But we will see.

carlosdetweiller
11-16-2009, 03:19 PM
has he ever knowingly cheated anyone or sold a fraud, fake, or forged King item?


Actually, yes. Seven or eight years ago Tim had a copy of THE TALISMAN listed on eBay purportedly signed by both King and Straub. The signatures were laughable. Someone had tried to forge both names and done a really poor job of it. There was no way either of the signatures were real.

I sent Tim a non-accusatory e-mail saying that the signatures were not legit and he should consider pulling the listing. I got back an e-mail thanking me for my interest but telling me that I was wrong. He wrote several lines of text to tell me how sometimes signatures look different from day to day and year to year depending on the circumstances (Gosh....Thanks Tim!).

He went on to say that he had gotten this book signed personally by King and Straub in an elevator. I wish I had saved his e-mail and the photo. You say it is my word against his...and it is. But, honestly, I've been looking at King's sig for a long, long time and these weren't even close to legit.

So, yes, he has knowingly sold forged items. I can forgive an honest mistake but the fact that he lied about it and made up the story about the elevator tells me he is dishonest. If he lied about this one book he is capable of lying about just about anything if it suits his purpose. I would never, ever, consider dealing with him in any way.

jemaher
11-16-2009, 05:50 PM
I must concede that that sounds fishy..... but over the years i have probably bought over $50,000 dollars worth of books and collectibles from him and his staff. they have always been helpful and courteous. I had assumed he used shill bidders but when i asked him he assured me he does not. there is no way to know for sure but i am certain that eBay can ferret out blatant abuse of that process. In any event, he is in the business to make a profit and he is entitled to do so as long as the practice is not illegal or dishonest.

Dolan
11-16-2009, 05:54 PM
has he ever knowingly cheated anyone or sold a fraud, fake, or forged King item?


Actually, yes. Seven or eight years ago Tim had a copy of THE TALISMAN listed on eBay purportedly signed by both King and Straub. The signatures were laughable. Someone had tried to forge both names and done a really poor job of it. There was no way either of the signatures were real.

I sent Tim a non-accusatory e-mail saying that the signatures were not legit and he should consider pulling the listing. I got back an e-mail thanking me for my interest but telling me that I was wrong. He wrote several lines of text to tell me how sometimes signatures look different from day to day and year to year depending on the circumstances (Gosh....Thanks Tim!).

He went on to say that he had gotten this book signed personally by King and Straub in an elevator. I wish I had saved his e-mail and the photo. You say it is my word against his...and it is. But, honestly, I've been looking at King's sig for a long, long time and these weren't even close to legit.

So, yes, he has knowingly sold forged items. I can forgive an honest mistake but the fact that he lied about it and made up the story about the elevator tells me he is dishonest. If he lied about this one book he is capable of lying about just about anything if it suits his purpose. I would never, ever, consider dealing with him in any way.

Not that any of the regulars here need verification, but yes, I have seen two. One was a "signed" Cujo and an "inscribed" proof of Everything's Eventual. Unlike Bob, I did send an accusatory email. The Cujo one he did take down, but EE he didn't. Sadly, I don't remember the price it went for but I do remember it being astronomical.

I also thought how sad it was to ruin a EE proof.

Sam
11-16-2009, 08:54 PM
I must concede that that sounds fishy..... but over the years i have probably bought over $50,000 dollars worth of books and collectibles from him and his staff. they have always been helpful and courteous. I had assumed he used shill bidders but when i asked him he assured me he does not. there is no way to know for sure but i am certain that eBay can ferret out blatant abuse of that process. In any event, he is in the business to make a profit and he is entitled to do so as long as the practice is not illegal or dishonest.

I agree that he, and every other business person is entitled to make a profit as long as their methods are not illegal. I would like to add dishonest to the list, but it is not always illegal to be dishonest in your business practices.

For instance, shill bidding isn't illegal. I have even willingly participated in this practice for my mother on several occassions when she had mistakenly listed a few items for the wrong price (and without a reserve). However, I bid to ensure I was the winner and that the merchandise didn't sell for an astronomically low price (and below her cost), which it would have if I hadn't sniped at the end. However, using shill bidders simply to drive the price up on items in the hope of getting extraordinary selling prices on them, while not illegal, is dishonest.

Forging signatures and selling them to unsuspecting people IS illegal as well as dishonest, not to mention ruining a perfectly good book.

Rahfa
11-16-2009, 09:16 PM
I must concede that that sounds fishy..... but over the years i have probably bought over $50,000 dollars worth of books and collectibles from him and his staff. they have always been helpful and courteous. I had assumed he used shill bidders but when i asked him he assured me he does not. there is no way to know for sure but i am certain that eBay can ferret out blatant abuse of that process. In any event, he is in the business to make a profit and he is entitled to do so as long as the practice is not illegal or dishonest.

I agree that he, and every other business person is entitled to make a profit as long as their methods are not illegal. I would like to add dishonest to the list, but it is not always illegal to be dishonest in your business practices.

For instance, shill bidding isn't illegal. I have even willingly participated in this practice for my mother on several occassions when she had mistakenly listed a few items for the wrong price (and without a reserve). However, I bid to ensure I was the winner and that the merchandise didn't sell for an astronomically low price (and below her cost), which it would have if I hadn't sniped at the end. However, using shill bidders simply to drive the price up on items in the hope of getting extraordinary selling prices on them, while not illegal, is dishonest.

Forging signatures and selling them to unsuspecting people IS illegal as well as dishonest, not to mention ruining a perfectly good book.

Why didn't she or you just cancel the bids and end the auction early?

Sam
11-16-2009, 09:39 PM
I asked her the same thing about canceling the auction, but she didn't want to for some reason. She just didn't want the items to go for less than she intended to start the auction. I think it was she listed the starting price at $2.50 instead of $25.00 so I put in a bid of $25.00. That was almost ten years ago so the details are kinda fuzzy, but it was something like that. All three of the items went for less than $10 each, I do remember that much.

Fsmdr
11-16-2009, 10:14 PM
has he ever knowingly cheated anyone or sold a fraud, fake, or forged King item?


He had also sold book that had been professionally repaired without disclosing it on his listing. There was an early inscribed 1st of the Stand that was listed about 4 years back. The front pastedown and the FFEP completely replaced and another dustjacket married to the book. The cloth binding also repaired.

The only reason I know is that I was the one who sold him the book. It was at best in Good minus condition. Very beat up with the previous owner's inscription all over the pastedown and the FFEP, with a tear on the cloth binding. The relisted, but altered book was graded as Fine minus with no other writing visible or tear to the cloth binding. No other way to magically remove those flaws without a book restorer at work.

Patrick
11-16-2009, 10:42 PM
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that given that this was moving toward a general discussion about the perceived reputability (or lack thereof) of Flatsigned, I went ahead and merged Bev's thread into the pre-existing Flatsigned thread to make reference to past discussions easier.

Thank you.

Please carry on.

Calla_Wolf
11-17-2009, 02:39 AM
Whilst running www.skfakes.com I wrote to Tim on several occasions regarding iffy, or downright ridiculous signatures. He always pulled them, but only (I suspect) because he didn't want his stuff listed on the fakes page of the site. I remember that I did list his stuff a couple of times and he whined and whinged for months because I kept historical records that were viewable to all...and there he was. Flatsigned selling fakes.

Having said that, I did buy a few things from him at reasonable prices AND (say as I find) he was generally personable and polite.

divemaster
11-17-2009, 07:09 AM
I wonder about those rebound 2007 short story collection books. I'd like to have one b/c it looks nice and I don't own the book in any form. Might as well, right? It's not like the regular version is valuable. I've been following Tim's auctions for these the past year or so. There are 2 versions. A "1 of 100" and a "1 of 26" deluxe. I haven't been able to determine any difference in the 2 other than one mentions the 26 and one mentions the 100.

BUT, I swear I've seen him put more than 26 copies of the deluxe up on eBay, and quite possible more than 100 copies of the other. At one point he was putting up 3 a week. And he's STILL putting them up. Either he has a whole lot more than 126 copies of this book, or he's re-offering the ones "won" by his shill bidders.

And I'm sure he uses shill bidders. One of my passtimes is usign eBay to "watch" auctions to keep up with current values and such. Seller "A" will put up a S/L King book that gets maybe 5-6 bids and sells for, say, $350. Tim Miller will put up the same version of the book (similar condition) and there will be 18 bids and it will end up at $617 or something. I see it time and time and time again.

I don't have the personal hate-on for Tim that some seem to have here, and if I thought I could get a good price on something of his, I'd bid and would probably be pleased with my purchase. I'm not really worried about getting a fake. But I'm not going to try to outbid shills.

lophophoras
11-17-2009, 08:11 AM
The rebound that he has been selling are nice. I purchased a 1 of 100 which comes without the slipcase. When I inquired about purchasing a slipcase from him he told me they cost $100.00. Hell, I paid $150.00 for the book off of Ebay so I told him never mind. That is the only transaction I have done with him. I won't say I will never do business with him again, but I do usually pass by his auctions these days.

Dolan
11-17-2009, 10:12 AM
here is an email that I just got from the lovely Tim:


Dear FlatSigners,

FlatSigned just got back from meeting with Stephen King at his book signing in Atlanta, GA this last Friday. A group of FlatSigned employees and I decided to take a road trip to visit Stephen at the signing hosted by Barnes and Noble to get some copies of his newest book "Under the Dome" signed for our loyal customers. With a little over 470 miles round trip, we also managed to get a few other treasures signed by Stephen, including a few first edition first printing copies of his very first novel, "Carrie."

We are again going to be meeting with Stephen this week in St. Paul, Minnesota as he headlines "Talking Volumes" at the Fitzgerald Theater on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 at 7:00 pm with author Audrey Niffenegger, who wrote the acclaimed book, "The Time Travelers Wife," which was recently made into a movie. This will be a nearly 1600 mile round trip for our intrepid gang, but bringing you treasures for a lifetime is what FlatSigned is all about.

While we don't have any of these newest books up on auction at the moment, check out this other great signed Stephen King book currently on auction from FlatSigned.

Stephen King's SIGNED RARE TRUE 1st CARRIE Book +DJ +COA

You can also buy a first edition, first printing, signed copy of Carrie that FlatSigned got signed from The Master of Horror, Stephen King himself, along with a photo from the event, and one of the Barnes and Noble blue wrist bands from the event, at the unbelievably low price of $2,900.00. This is a steal for this book as it usually sells for between $5,000.00 and $8,000.00 from other dealers. The copy we are offering is in very good condition with a first edition, unclipped dust jacket, FlatSigned by Stephen King on the title page. With the ephemera from the event where it was signed, this deal is too good to pass up.

Sam
11-17-2009, 10:57 AM
Interesting piece. What I would like to know is how he was able to get King to sign something besides Under the Dome when no one else could. Maybe Bev could have since he has a close connection to King (close enough for King to call his name when he saw Bev in the signing line), but I'm pretty certain Tim Miller doesn't rate that high on the recognition meter.

That ad smacks of fraudulent listing to me. The signature may be authentic, but the story sounds bogus and makes me think the sig probably is too.

ChristineB
11-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Well I have to say if he was able to get King to sign anything other then Under the Dome, I am not a happy camper.

But, hey I got my book, and am estatic about that so. *shrug*

herbertwest
11-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Marsha said that King exchanged a book against signing 10... but there wouldnt be more. Right?

Randall Flagg
11-17-2009, 02:48 PM
Wow. Flatsigned sure seems to have what King wants.

Ari_Racing
11-17-2009, 03:55 PM
A friend of mine managed to get his Duma Key signed at Sarasota.

Patrick
11-17-2009, 04:49 PM
Marsha said that King exchanged a book against signing 10... but there wouldnt be more. Right?
Are you saying that King signed one non-UTD book for Tim rather than sign 10 UTD's? I'm sorry, but I don't understand.

EDIT: Oh wait. I think you're saying King signed 10 books and in exchange received one other book.

Sam
11-17-2009, 06:09 PM
A friend of mine managed to get his Duma Key signed at Sarasota.

Do you mean at the Sarasota event Ari, or do you mean in the town of Sarasota?

I've heard of several signed Duma Keys coming out of Sarasota. As I recall, the signed Duma Key I have came out of Sarasota as well.

Sam
11-17-2009, 06:23 PM
Marsha said that King exchanged a book against signing 10... but there wouldnt be more. Right?
Are you saying that King signed one non-UTD book for Tim rather than sign 10 UTD's? I'm sorry, but I don't understand.

EDIT: Oh wait. I think you're saying King signed 10 books and in exchange received one other book.

He did get King to sign a number of books (I thought it was 12) in exchange for a book he had that King wanted, but that was long before the UTD events/signings.

And I believe he did have a Carrie in that group, or so he says. He also claimed to have gotten The Plant signed as well, but that claim was refutted by Marsha if I remember right. So I'm guessing his signed The Plant wasn't signed by King himself.

ChristineB
11-17-2009, 07:57 PM
So I'm guessing his signed The Plant wasn't signed by King himself.

Ok this is how bad rumors get started. Shame on you Sam.

In his initial email to his subscribers he said he was going to have SK sign some books for him and included The Plant in that list. It has been reported on SKMB that there was not a copy of The Plant signed in that lot.

He may very well have a copy of The Plant signed by SK. We just know it wasn't from that batch that SK signed in payment for the book he wanted.

I really hope that book was worth a pretty penny since I'm sure Miller made a good amount off the books SK signed.

Brice
11-17-2009, 07:59 PM
It was a complete collection of Stephanie Meyer paperbacks.

e_taylor
11-17-2009, 08:07 PM
It was a complete collection of Stephanie Meyer paperbacks.

:rofl:

Sam
11-17-2009, 08:09 PM
Shame on me Christine? Nah, I did say I was guessing, but when you state that a specific book was signed at a specific time the expectation by the client/clients is that you are telling the truth. When you are shown to not be telling the truth, that puts everything in your statement in question. He said The Plant was included in the group that had been signed, not that he was planning to send it to King to be signed. He was saying, albeit in a round about way, that The Plant had been signed by King. He wasn't quite telling the truth. That puts in question who the actual signer of that book is. I didn't see pictures of it, but I was of the impression that it was the recently expanded version of The Plant turned into a booklet of some sort and not the original parts that he was talking about. If I'm mistaken, then it is MY misunderstanding and not any attempt to villify him unfairly. Besides, he's done enough that we know of so there's no need to create tales where none exist.

Ari_Racing
11-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Do you mean at the Sarasota event Ari, or do you mean in the town of Sarasota?

I've heard of several signed Duma Keys coming out of Sarasota. As I recall, the signed Duma Key I have came out of Sarasota as well.

I mean at the sarasota event, but at the end, when King was leaving.

Sam
11-17-2009, 08:29 PM
Ok, after the event your friend happened to catch King as he was leaving and King was nce enough to stop and sign your friend's copy of Duma Key. Got it. That was very cool of him to do that.

ChristineB
11-17-2009, 09:16 PM
Did anyone else get this email?

Something BIG has happened and I am emailing to see if you wish to be a part. Stephen King has agreed to sign books for me. We will have everything from "The Plants", "Gunslingers", "The Shining" and "Carries" available. ALL will be First Printings in original dustjackets. Is there a different title you would like to have signed and would you like to have one of the titles mentioned above? If so it is important that you email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com ASAP. Thank you for buying my books!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
President

:orely:

Sorry Sam, this is the email I was referring to. While he says he will have them, he doesn't say he has them already. I guess you had seen something else that I am unaware of, which is very possible since I'm not that well read on the forums and such.

jemaher
11-18-2009, 03:29 PM
For instance, shill bidding isn't illegal. However, using shill bidders simply to drive the price up on items in the hope of getting extraordinary selling prices on them, while not illegal, is dishonest.

Forging signatures and selling them to unsuspecting people IS illegal as well as dishonest, not to mention ruining a perfectly good book.



the use of shill bidding is hard to prove but i agree that i have had my suspicions. so much so that i usually dont bid on an item when i see the high bidder has more than 50% of ther bids with one seller.
ultimately unless there are a lot of suckers out there shill bidders diminish the likely hood of a sale. I have never listed anything on ebay, but if you sell something dont you pay a fee? even if you sell to your own shill, you still owe the fee. how is that cost effective?

carlosdetweiller
11-18-2009, 03:47 PM
but if you sell something dont you pay a fee? even if you sell to your own shill, you still owe the fee. how is that cost effective?

I suspect that the profit from a few successful sales where an unsuspecting bidder is duped into paying a higher price because of shill bidding far outweighs the eBay fees on the other sales where the tactic didn't work. It must be profitable or Tim wouldn't keep doing it.

Calla_Wolf
11-19-2009, 02:26 AM
Out of interest, has anyone ever confronted him directly on the shill bidding issue?

Doubtless he'd deny it...but I'd love to see how he'd word it.

jemaher
11-19-2009, 04:38 PM
Out of interest, has anyone ever confronted him directly on the shill bidding issue?

Doubtless he'd deny it...but I'd love to see how he'd word it.

the answer is yes........... I point blank told him that i was bummed because i didnt bid on an item because i assumed that i would be outbid by the shill bidder only to see it "sell" for less than i would have paid for the item.

He denied using shill bidders and seemed genuinely distressed that someone would think he used them. either way that book went for less than i would have paid.

carlosdetweiller
11-19-2009, 04:52 PM
He denied using shill bidders and seemed genuinely distressed that someone would think he used them.

Prisons are full of innocent men. Just ask them.

Sam
11-19-2009, 05:32 PM
What Bob said.

Patrick
11-19-2009, 10:22 PM
Out of interest, has anyone ever confronted him directly on the shill bidding issue?

Doubtless he'd deny it...but I'd love to see how he'd word it.

the answer is yes........... I point blank told him that i was bummed because i didnt bid on an item because i assumed that i would be outbid by the shill bidder only to see it "sell" for less than i would have paid for the item.

He denied using shill bidders and seemed genuinely distressed that someone would think he used them. either way that book went for less than i would have paid.
If you are willing to buy a certain book at a certain price from a certain seller, why not just throw in your top bid, then walk away until the end of the auction?

If another bidder (shill or authentic) goes higher, then so be it - you're in the same place.
If not, then the item is yours at a price you are willing to pay.

jemaher
11-20-2009, 09:07 PM
well why waste the effort if the shill set point is ridiculously high

Sam
11-20-2009, 10:06 PM
not really worth it, that's why many don't bother bidding

Timmy Miller
11-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Hello,
I want to let anyone here know that if asked I would be happy to answer any questions. Plus, I want to thank those of you who have expressed direct and/or indirect support of everything from sharing with others that I have purchased and sold books to them without issues and even more so, those who have expressed their observations as to how rumors get started and shouldn't people be judged only after proof or even better, judged only by a higher-being. Thank you for those comments very much.

For the others, I read things here that are false. Some things were "published" false then corrected. Others have been published correct then later, false things are stated. At least one or two of you emailed me to ask questions direct over the years. I was surprised those words would be shared with the world on this site but that is a good way to start the primary point I would like to make. That is that can anyone of you imagine the scrutiny of selling over 200,000 books with 30,000 unique buyers, ALL FOR THE WORLD TO SEE, and not have made mistakes and even decisions that you wish you could change your mind on?? If anyone here can say yes that they could of done better or have done better, please let me hear from you.

I have never, knowingly sold a fake autograph. I do know that in the beginning of my company I had fake King autographs posted on eBay. Those were brought to my attention AND the same person knew they were purchased by me on eBay. I have always ended auctions where there is any serious question as to the validity of an autograph. I know at least 3 experts on this site who have dissagreed themselves on some King autographs as to whether they were real or authentic. Now, imagine doing that thousands of times with the entire world watching. Do you think maintaining a positive rating of over 99.9% (buyers) is equal to what anyone can do?
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
owner
www.flatsigned.com

Patrick
11-29-2009, 09:11 PM
Hello Tim,

Welcome to TheDarkTower.com!

Personally I've never done business with Flatsigned, so I'm interested in your perspective. The fact that you are willing to open yourself up to questions from our members, in and of itself, I find promising and speaks well of you.

By the way, once you have a mere five posts, more member privileges will open to you here.

Again, welcome.
- Patrick

p.s. I moved your post from another thread into this one in order to avoid that thread going too far off-topic. :)

Room 217 Caretaker
11-30-2009, 03:46 AM
Hello Tim

Welcome to our site and the opportunity to openly discuss the selling of books, signatures, etc. with you. A smart business man always keeps open communications to improve his/her business even if the question is a tough one. I respect that.

I’ve sold to you and have bought from you and the experience was professional. But,

my concern with your auctions has been this:

I’ve seen a signed limited book on Ebay get several bids, and the auction closes for $200. You put the same signed limited book on Ebay and it closes for $600. This doesn't just happen every now and then, it happens all the time.

I've seen it with your Crichton books, King books, etc.

I’m not trying to gauge the value of a book by what sells on Ebay, the value is only worth what others are willing to pay for it. That I understand but to see a signed limited Crichton book sale for $300 at the end of one of your auctions and right below the auction is three buy it now for the same signed limited book at $100 really raises flags.

I’m not talking about flat signed books with questionable signatures but true signed limited editions.

For the record: I’m not accusing you of Shill bidding. But my question is this. Do you have employees under you bidding on these books? If they have legit Ebay accounts technically it’s not shill bidding. But it doesn’t take rocket science thinking to figure out something is strange with the auction ending value.

Because of this, I’ve stopped bidding on your auctions. In fact, I don’t even look at your auctions anymore. Yes, you've lost a customer.

On closing, I do know many collectors who have warned about dealing with your company and when a question is raised about your practices you have a tendency to attack with lawsuit threats.
I can tell you this, the collecting world isn’t as big as people think and it doesn’t take collectors long to figure out who to trust or not.

Again, I really do respect you for opening yourself up for questions and hopefully you are here to gain back respect in the collecting world and not to attack or threaten.

Ralph Mulleins

Calla_Wolf
11-30-2009, 04:09 AM
I do know that in the beginning of my company I had fake King autographs posted on eBay. Those were brought to my attention AND the same person knew they were purchased by me on eBay. I have always ended auctions where there is any serious question as to the validity of an autograph.

I'll attest to the truth of the above because Tim and I exchanged mails on this very subject a few times when SKFakes was up and running...and auctions disappeared almost as soon as authenticity was questioned.

The shill bidding question is more difficult to disprove, easier to suspect. For an item to sell at THREE TIMES its current market value may be seen to be good fortune. For it to happen time and time again passes into the realms of fantasy. There's little doubt in my mind that there are Flatsigned employees artificially inflating prices - you've more or less admitted as much "my guys really slipped up on that one" But ultimately, this isn't illegal (though it IS against Ebay rules).

I DO bid on flatsigned auctions, though as I won't bid over market value, I don't win very often. When I HAVE won, I've never been disappointed by what I've received.

divemaster
11-30-2009, 07:54 AM
The shill bidding question is more difficult to disprove, easier to suspect. For an item to sell at THREE TIMES its current market value may be seen to be good fortune. For it to happen time and time again passes into the realms of fantasy. There's little doubt in my mind that there are Flatsigned employees artificially inflating prices - you've more or less admitted as much "my guys really slipped up on that one" But ultimately, this isn't illegal (though it IS against Ebay rules).

I DO bid on flatsigned auctions, though as I won't bid over market value, I don't win very often. When I HAVE won, I've never been disappointed by what I've received.

Tim, I assume you'll be reading these posts so I want to reiterate the above. On this thread and elsewhere I've mentioned that I don't think you sell fakes and the few purchases I've made from you I have been happy with. Your e-mail answers to the couple of questions I've had were polite, friendly, and professional.

But the shill bidding question is huge. Like others on this site, I've noticed that one of your auctions receive 16-18 bids, really racking up the price (even to more what one could get off ABEbooks on occassion!) while a very similar book gets no bids or has top bid very much lower than yours. It just happens too much to be a coincidence.

Seller reputation and auction design are factors in the presentation of a sale and sure that might play a small role, but most SK collectors are not dupes, ready to be swayed by graphics to the tune of hundreds of dollars. We pretty much know what the market value is and the fact that you keep getting quitr a bit more than that suggests you've got folks assigned to bid up your auctions.

That's the only issue I have with any of your business practices.

Calla_Wolf
12-01-2009, 12:18 AM
Thread's gone very quiet......

Brice
12-01-2009, 05:44 AM
I'd guess we're awaiting for Timmy to find his way to the thread. :unsure:

Bev Vincent
12-01-2009, 06:16 AM
By moving it to Calvin's Corner, have you removed his ability to post until he has X posts elsewhere?

turtlex
12-01-2009, 06:17 AM
No, actually, he should be able to post anywhere. He just can't get/send PMs yet ( not enough posts ).

Just a matter of him finding his way here, I think.

ETA: I sent an email to Tim via his profile and also left him a Vistor's Message with a link to this thread.

Matt
12-01-2009, 07:40 AM
Correct, he can post wherever he likes, only guests can't.

However, I will make sure he is good to go on every front by promoting his new member status up to regular member. :thumbsup:

Sam
12-01-2009, 10:03 AM
I have an item on the way from Flatsigned myself. I'll post my thoughts on it when it arrives. It's a S/L so there's no questions about the sig.

Patrick
12-01-2009, 12:18 PM
By moving it to Calvin's Corner, have you removed his ability to post until he has X posts elsewhere?
His original post was here in Calvin's Corner, so the forum location has not changed. I only moved the single post from another pre-existing thread to this one.


Correct, he can post wherever he likes, only guests can't.

However, I will make sure he is good to go on every front by promoting his new member status up to regular member. :thumbsup:
Thanks for bumping up his membership status, Matt.

Timmy Miller
12-01-2009, 03:05 PM
Hello SK Fans:
It seems that the primary focus is currently shill bidding. I have never shill bid nor has anyone I know ever shill bid for me.....at least not that I know of anyway. The later may deserve explanation which I will do then I will answer any questions as long as they are professional.

In summary, I have almost 30,000 clients. At least 4,000 of those were my clients first and ONLY then went to eBay. When I did my own "Live Auctions" I had over 2000 people enroll within 10 days. Many of those people came to my company from ads in the New York Times, Smithsonian, Discover, Autograph Collector and other magazines. Many also came to me from my interviews on national and local television. Those people found me; then they found eBay. Not that they didn't know what eBay was (although if you go back to the late 1990's, many did not know eBay and did know me) and had never even registered. Many of those people, especially in the beginning, ONLY bid on my auctions. If you have two people from those thousands who want an item and want it from me, they have to pay a premium price. In the past I was fortunate to have clients who didn't mind spending thousands on a book they could perhaps find elsewhere for hundreds. All of you seem to know Tina (ie famous on eBay) and Dave (world's foremost King expert) who can attest to the FACT that in the early days of online-auctions, especially Amazon.com, some people would stay up hours past the closing time of auctions to keep bidding against another person. That other person wasn't me or anyone I knew. I would of been happy with the value. Back then and still to some degree, many of my clients love auctions because they want to WIN more than they want the book or whatever it is they are bidding on. That is the biggest fact that explains why a book of mine would bring far more than the similar book from another seller. Tina and others know some of these people who insisted on winning my auctions. That can be proven.

Now, let me ask you a question? If I was selling fake autographs and shill biding, why would I be in Chapter 11? I would appreciate some day getting to why would any good person ever make fun of someone in CHapter 11 but lets hold that off for a future date. The successful fakesters out there, and I know at least three of them because I sued them in 2002 only to end up with legal bills of thousands of dollars and the judge saying he didn't know what a real autograph looked like. That was the end of it. Case dismissed. One now owns a condo on the beach in Miami and at last count, had sold 4 million dollars on eBay alone. How could he get by with this? He always worked alone. Since the year 2000 I have had an employee. Now I have 7 employees. I have 5 ex-employees who hate my guts. Those people would report me to eBay or the authorities (knowingly selling fakes is fraud and illegal) in a heartbeat if what some here think was truly happening. It is not. In fact, since 2006 I have been dissabled. I go to the office once every two months at most. I have an office manager who runs the office, three full-time listing people and others who do the other work. I do have hundreds of people who go to signing events all over the USA. They sell me books for anywhere from two to 25 dollars over cover price. That is how I get so many signed books. I also buy from eBay which has turned out to be the biggest mistake of my career. I buy books from eBay then I get in trouble with eBay because the autographs are fake. Nobody turned in that litle-guy for selling fakes over and over again...every day. Everyone is instead watching me. Which is fine but I promise you it's difficult living in glass houses where everything my staff and I do can be seen by the world. But, that's ok. The only thing I don't believe right and fair is for people, some here, make false statements and statements about my character when they don't even know me. I don't even know this Eric person. If he purchased something from me I don't remember. He probably never had any direct contact with me. Very few do unless they are a VIP client who has been with me for 10 years or more or a new client who spends thousands. Among my client list is two US Senators, two Ambassadors, the person who owns the patent to the two-liter plastic bottle, the President of a major stock exchange, etc. Why would I risk all that by shill bidding and how could I do that in secret??? Even my staff, especially when they become ex-staff which is part of running any company, would have me out of business in a week if that were true. The reason I get more for my items than others is because it is a cult-like following. Those who hear me on the radio or tv ONLY want to buy from me. That's the best, most honest answer I can give you.

I am open to more but I only will be checking this site once every day or two. I try to focus on what brings in the money which MAY get me out of Chapter 11. That is my goal and whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty. If you are proud of that, you will answer to a far bigger power than anyone here. I hold no malice. I simply wish all people would love all people and I never figured out why Rodney King was made so much fun at for saying such a wonderful thing.
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
owner
www.flatsigned.com

Randall Flagg
12-01-2009, 05:01 PM
.
Hello SK Fans:
I have never shill bid nor has anyone I know ever shill bid for me.....at least not that I know of anyway.
Plausible deniability


Now, let me ask you a question? If I was selling fake autographs and shill biding, why would I be in Chapter 11?
Bad business practices-spending more than you make. I have 5 ex-employees who hate my guts.
That says something.
I also buy from eBay which has turned out to be the biggest mistake of my career. I buy books from eBay then I get in trouble with eBay because the autographs are fake.
Possibly contributed to Chapter 11, and an admission to selling fake autographs?
Among my client list is two US Senators, two Ambassadors, the person who owns the patent to the two-liter plastic bottle, the President of a major stock exchange, etc.

In your defense, I think Stephen King himself has done business (trading) with you. Why would I risk all that by shill bidding ....?

Money


If you are proud of that, you will answer to a far bigger power than anyone here.

For now could we please leave religious beliefs out of the conversation

lophophoras
12-02-2009, 05:11 AM
"I am open to more but I only will be checking this site once every day or two. I try to focus on what brings in the money which MAY get me out of Chapter 11. That is my goal and whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty. If you are proud of that, you will answer to a far bigger power than anyone here. I hold no malice. I simply wish all people would love all people and I never figured out why Rodney King was made so much fun at for saying such a wonderful thing."

I find it very hard to believe that anyone here had anything to do with you having to file Chapter 11.

turtlex
12-02-2009, 06:13 AM
Tim - I'm going to have to agree completely, and 100%, with James.


I try to focus on what brings in the money which MAY get me out of Chapter 11. That is my goal and whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty.
*italics mine for reference

I can't believe you'd blame collector's - who freely and openly share their experiences, thoughts and opinions - for any financial difficulty you might be experiencing.

Way to completely alienate your target buyers.

redsoxfan565
12-02-2009, 06:35 AM
At the end of the day, you as the seller, or re-seller are ultimately responsible. Putting the blame on others for selling fakes, that then you resold isn't an excuse. It's your business, and you need to be accountable for every single item that goes in and out of your store. I was appalled at the amount of fake signed Barack Obama books that you had for sale during the past couple of years. You as a seller are responsible, and you clearly have failed at providing authentic signatures to your customers.

carlosdetweiller
12-02-2009, 06:37 AM
I try to focus on what brings in the money which MAY get me out of Chapter 11. That is my goal and whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty.
*italics mine for reference

I can't believe you'd blame collector's - who freely and openly share their experiences, thoughts and opinions - for any financial difficulty you might be experiencing.



I had the same thoughts when I read that. It's likely just a symptom of the victim mentality that has taken over our country (and maybe the world). Personal accountability has become a very scarce trait. Everyone wants to blame their problems on someone else. "It's not MY fault!"

Patrick
12-02-2009, 10:37 AM
At the end of the day, you as the seller, or re-seller are ultimately responsible. Putting the blame on others for selling fakes, that then you resold isn't an excuse. It's your business, and you need to be accountable for every single item that goes in and out of your store. ....
:thumbsup: I wish this statement were on the log in page of eBay.

Timmy Miller
12-02-2009, 12:27 PM
hummm....where to start? I did not blame anyone here, nor "fans", nor any one person for my financial failure. Of course I am responsible for my actions and I accept those here and forever.

I did NOT bring up "religion" unless someone wanted to read into what I said. If mentioning a "higher power" means religion to that reader, that is up to them. But personally I do believe in a higher-power....in fact many of them. The most obvious interpretation of this word in this context I think would be the law. There are false rumors started or at least carried on by some who have and/or still post here that I was "chased out of Chicago" by the law, been arrested in Tennessee, being investigated by the AG's office of Tennessee, etc. None of this is the truth. That was my point.

As for running my company poorly and thereby getting myself into bankruptcy, the nexus for my filing Chapter 11 was that my bank, without notice, called in a line of credit in the amount of $450,000.00 which they had told me would NOT be called in for a year. If all you reading this don't know it, this has happened to thousands if not a million businesses in the past year. Banks are calling in loans, raising fees and doing terribly dishonest things that verge on breaking the law.....faster than Congress can make laws against their almost-illegal actions.

I really thought this could be a positive way of answering direct questions and sheding the truth rather than rumors and outright lies but if people do not want to hear and then KNOW the truth, their minds can not be changed. I have never knowingly sold a fake autograph. EVERY PERSON OF ANY SIZE IN THIS BUSINESS HAS SOLD FAKE AUTOGRAPHS. Unfortunately, that is part of this industry and that is sad. The key is doing the right thing after you know a mistake has happened. That is to refund, apologize and destroy the fake autograph. That is what has happened everytime to my knowledge. My employees are all told from day-one THEY MUST BE HONEST and that is the number one rule here. How could my company belong to the Better Business Bureau, The Manuscript Society, the UACC and The International Society of Appraisers if all or any substantial part of these false accusations was true?

If anyone brings me a legit and specific charge where I or anyone on my staff has done wrong, I am happy to explain. But making mean-spirited comments and carrying on rumors and/or inuendo (pardon me if my spelling is poor) without evidence and proof, IS wrong, evil and those who do this are doing so for other reasons that have nothing to do with me. I don't know the three or four people here who are THE core of making these type comments. What is the basis for anyone to have anything against me? Bring on the proof and please look into what McCarthyism is and what it must be like to have 30,000 happy clients and six to ten unhappy ones. Any retail business would be proud of the statistics this company has had for a decade. Who out there has never made a mistake OR who out there has proof that I have done something wrong intentionally???? Bring those specific things on. That is why I came here. Not get soiled by getting into a mud-fight with anyone. I seriously am offering up all things but it takes two or more open-minded people to fix a problem. So if the intention of any single person out there is to simply keep a negative opinion and make false statements I can't change that. But if anyone wants to know the truth and exactly what has ever happened, then let them ask then act accordingly. At least a few of you who have posted here are my current clients but it seems are afraid, and I don't blame them, to speak up when just a few people are so dark and negative. Why? I offer to submit to binding arbitration with the American Arbitration Association and the looser pays all costs. What else can I do to open anyone's mind or share the truth?? Let me know. Or, maybe this wasn't a good idea afterall. Either way, I wish everyone here only the best.
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

Daghain
12-02-2009, 01:24 PM
I agree that it would be nice to see specific instances where people believe problems have occurred, as it would be easier for everyone involved to try and sort them out.

This, however



I try to focus on what brings in the money which MAY get me out of Chapter 11. That is my goal and whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty.


hummm....where to start? I did not blame anyone here, nor "fans", nor any one person for my financial failure. Of course I am responsible for my actions and I accept those here and forever.



is contradictory in my mind. So, here's a specific thing you can address, if you'd like.

And, welcome to the site. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there.

carlosdetweiller
12-02-2009, 02:10 PM
who out there has proof that I have done something wrong intentionally???? Bring those specific things on.

Tim,
Please see my post #119 on page 5 of this thread. In this instance you misrepresented King's and Straub's signatures as legit when they were, in fact, rather terrible fakes.
I've been collecting signed King books for 28 years and have as good an eye as anybody for legit vs. forged King signatures.
This instance wasn't one of those you allude to where rare mistakes are bound to happen when you list thousands of books or one of those where you yourself were duped into buying a fake signature. In this instance you took the time to answer my e-mail and deliberately tried to mislead me by saying you were present for BOTH of the bogus signatures.
I guess you thought I was just some newbie on eBay and would take you at your word but knowledgeable collectors need to be treated like that only ONCE to develop a lifetime of distrust. And, yes, we collectors on this forum share our experiences with each other freely whether they be good or bad.
Bob Jackson

Randall Flagg
12-02-2009, 02:21 PM
has he ever knowingly cheated anyone or sold a fraud, fake, or forged King item?


Actually, yes. Seven or eight years ago Tim had a copy of THE TALISMAN listed on eBay purportedly signed by both King and Straub. The signatures were laughable. Someone had tried to forge both names and done a really poor job of it. There was no way either of the signatures were real.

I sent Tim a non-accusatory e-mail saying that the signatures were not legit and he should consider pulling the listing. I got back an e-mail thanking me for my interest but telling me that I was wrong. He wrote several lines of text to tell me how sometimes signatures look different from day to day and year to year depending on the circumstances (Gosh....Thanks Tim!).

He went on to say that he had gotten this book signed personally by King and Straub in an elevator. I wish I had saved his e-mail and the photo. You say it is my word against his...and it is. But, honestly, I've been looking at King's sig for a long, long time and these weren't even close to legit.

So, yes, he has knowingly sold forged items. I can forgive an honest mistake but the fact that he lied about it and made up the story about the elevator tells me he is dishonest. If he lied about this one book he is capable of lying about just about anything if it suits his purpose. I would never, ever, consider dealing with him in any way.

To help expedite.

Randall Flagg
12-02-2009, 02:30 PM
FWIW, in 2007 Flatsigned Inc. sued Don Imus et al for $4 million claiming '..host disparaged them..'
Article (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0124081ford1.html)
Audio Link (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/sound/imusfordspot.mp3)

Sam
12-02-2009, 03:01 PM
The lawsuit was deserved. Imus had no business doing anything more than reading the advertising copy in front of him and was very unprofessional in doing otherwise. I would hope the courts ruled or do rule in their favor. That was a professional who was hired to do a job and that professional didn't do what they were contracted to do. It's no different than booksellers selling fake signatures, stolen books, or falsely advertising the BCE books they are selling as 1st editions. No different at all.

Patrick
12-02-2009, 04:09 PM
At the end of the day, you as the seller, or re-seller are ultimately responsible. Putting the blame on others for selling fakes, that then you resold isn't an excuse. It's your business, and you need to be accountable for every single item that goes in and out of your store. ....
:thumbsup: I wish this statement were on the log in page of eBay.
I would like to clarify that my statement above was in reference to all eBay sellers, not pointed at Flatsigned in particular.



...whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty.
I think I can explain this statement - using myself as an example: I've never done business with Flatsigned. Based on commentary in this thread from people I hold in very high regard, I am reluctant to do business with Flatsigned. To the extent that this reticence leads me to withhold business from Flatsigned that it may have otherwise earned, then Flatsigned would be out a potential sale. I would guess that this is the concern that Tim is expressing.

Personally though, I am highly unlikely to ever win one of its auctions because Flatsigned's auctions generally have such high sales prices that I would be quickly priced out of its market. Therefore my opinion of the company is a moot point.


... And, welcome to the site. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there.I'd like to echo this sentiment.

e_taylor
12-03-2009, 08:03 AM
Tim,

In your long winded answers you are still failing to answer the questions being asked. Address the fake Obama signatures, and the fake King/Straub signatures.

Sticking to "I have never knowledgeably sold a fake and everyone in the business has accidentally sold fakes" suggests to me that you are not knowledgeable.

Going on about evil people having to answer to higher powers is irrelevant.

And listing your high profile clients does not invalidate the accusations against you.

For instance, this is how your arguments would defend Nike's use of sweat shops in third world countries:

Theres no way Nike could possibly use sweat shops - they are immoral, and professional athletes, world leaders and royalty wouldn't buy immoral products - in fact I heard Barrack Obama wears Nike running shoes when playing basketball - as you can see, based on Nike's clients, they could not possibly do any wrong and anybody who says that they use sweat shops has ulterior motives and will someday answer to a higher power!


I agree it takes guts to come here, but coming here to answer questions honestly is a lot different from spin doctoring every answer while avoiding the actual questions.

Sam
12-03-2009, 09:14 AM
I said I would let you guys know about the book I purchased from FlatSigned, so here I am again. I got the book today. It would have arrived yesterday but my mail carrier is lazy so I had to get it from the PO instead of her leaving it on my porch.

First off, the book is The Eyes of the Dragon S/L. The shipping was super fast and the book well packed. There was no damage as a result of transportation. Here is the link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140362050808&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT) so you can see the pictures and description is below so you don't have to go to the link if you just want to read the description:

Slipcase is in GOOD+ condition with some light edgewear. Decorative paper-covered boards with black cloth tops and side, some rubbing on edges, light bumping on corners, wear goes through cloth on tips of some corners, one tiny tear in paper on back cover's bottom edge, some light dusting on surfaces. Book is in VERY GOOD+ condition and is square and tightly bound with clean, crisp pages inside. Matching decorative paper-covered boards with black cloth binding and gold spine lettering, some light rubbing on top and bottom edges, some light bumping on corners. Pages are clean aside from some faint dark smudges on the side page edge. No stray marks or inscriptions from previous owners.

Is the book as described? Not quite. The damage to the slipcase is a little worse than described. There is a small piece of slipcase where the cloth is gone and the slipcase material is exposed. It looks like something may have hit it at some point in it's life before it got to me.
The bump.
http://www.thedarktower.org/gallery/data/500/medium/HPIM1066.JPG

The tiny tear is 3/4 inch long and is not so much a tear as it is simply part of the paper on the slipcase has been torn off. I would have called it a missing piece, not a tear.
The tear.
http://www.thedarktower.org/gallery/data/500/medium/HPIM1065.JPG

Finally is the corner. It looks a little worse than described, but that is subjective since it does say wear goes through the cloth on some corners.
http://www.thedarktower.org/gallery/data/500/medium/HPIM1067.JPG

So the slipcase was described as Good+ condition. I would say Fair but useable condition. The slipcase is still strong and hasn't been bent or otherwise compromised, but there is certainly not as much life in it as many of the copies I have seen either in person, in other collections, or for sale on ebay.

The book though, is in pretty good condition. I would have described it as Good condition, not Very Good, but the condtion is as described in the ad. It looks a little more dirty in person, but it's ok.

What does sort of upset me is the pictures on the auction page do NOT show the real damage to the slipcase. I know now that it is because the pictures you see of the case head on are all of the same side. The only picture of the damaged side is at an angle so you cannot see the true extent of the damage.

It is my opinion that the price I paid for the book ($430 + shipping), while acceptable to me, was too high for the quality and condition of the book I purchased. I know for absolute CERTAIN that my maximum bid was more than I would be willing to pay for it if I saw it in person before bidding, and had I paid my maximum (or even close to it) I would be requesting a refund and returning the book.

Due to the condition of this particular copy and going by the price estimate on http://www.stephenkingcollector.com/, I would place it's value at no more than about $400-$450.

All in all, am I happy with my purchase? After searching for a copy of this S/L that was within my reach and having lost numerous auctions for it for years, yes I'm happy. Am I satisfied, yes and no. I finally have a copy, but the slipcase is pretty well beat up and the original owner didn't care for the book very well.

In the end though, I still have a S/L The Eyes of the Dragon finally on my shelf. Now to get Six Stories back on my shelf.:pirate:

jhanic
12-03-2009, 09:27 AM
I'd say, given the condition, you got an okay deal. The auction description did leave something to be desired, though.

John

redsoxfan565
12-03-2009, 11:31 AM
Case and point with Obama:
Here is a fake Obama you sold:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130335209943

That Obama book you sold is a BLATANT Fake, and is not even close. I saw roughly 75% of all of your Obama books that you sold in the past 2 years were fakes, and they weren't even close. And Yes, I am an Obama signature expert and would be happy to debate this even further. YOU as the owner of the company should take more responsibility in what you sell. You do not do that, and its clear you don't want to.

This is one that was actually authentic that was sold:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380167521591

And yet again, another fake:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380167521272

You still have not actually answered any questions, you have just caused more questions to be put on you, as well as your shady company.

Another thing, it's clear you don't care about this situation, when you continually purchase these fake autographs, without doing research first.

I'll give you a hint, send this back for a refund:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180434104502

redsoxfan565
12-03-2009, 11:43 AM
Sam-I think you are nitpicking at this point. That seems to be what was described in the auction, as well as shown in the pictures. I am sure he will give you a full refund if you don't want it, however.

Sam
12-03-2009, 12:24 PM
I appreciate you feel I'm nitpicking redsoxfan, and I have no intention of sending the book back. The book is in good enough condition that I am happy with the purchase. The slipcase is truly secondary to the book and may be replaced at some point, whereas if the book is damaged, it's damaged and there's nothing to be done. What I was, and still am, disappointed with was the misrepresentation of the condition of the slipcase. Would I have still bid on the auction? I think so. Would I have still won the auction? I think so. But I would not have had such a high potential bid in place. I don't feel I am nitpicking concerning the condition of the slipcase. It DOES matter toward the value of the overall piece, and Good condition over Fair condition is a difference. It's a BIG difference in some cases. If you're talking about something valued at $10 in excellent condition then the difference isn't much between good and fair, maybe $1-$1.50 less for the item in fair condition. If you're dealing with something valued at nearly $1000 in excellent condition (like a S/L EotD) do the math. You're talking $100-$150 difference between good condition and fair condition. That's a lot of money, and it's certainly worth nitpicking about. I'm not bitching about the price I paid. I think it's a fair price, on the high side of the value of the book but a fair price nonetheless. All I am saying is that the condition of the slipcase, not the book itself just the slipcase, was misrepresented. The tear in the paper of the slipcase is not a tear. It is missing a small piece of the paper. A tear can be repaired somewhat with the application of a little glue if the owner chooses to do so. A missing piece is simply that, missing, and can't be fixed. The bump/ding in the slipcase wasn't mentioned at all. If you look at the pictures, you can see where both sides of the slipcase are not shown full on. The damaged side is shown only once and at an angle that helps to hide the damage. While that isn't exactly lying and saying everything is fine, it is hiding the truth.

I can't say for absolute certain that I will never be doing business with Flatsigned again, but I can say this was my first experience with Flatsigned and I am not impressed with the veracity of their auctions.

Tim, I don't buy flat signed books over the internet due to the proflieration of forgeries. This isn't a comment on you, just on the market as a whole. Limited Editions don't have that problem though so I won't pass over your auctions, but I will be very cautious in bidding on them in the future to the point that I doubt I will win another one because I don't feel I can completely trust your auctions to present the true condition of the book to warrant bidding the full value of the book on auction.

Timmy Miller
12-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Both of the Obama autographs above were carefully reviewed and approved by GAI. I do not have any financial interest in GAI. They are eBay's recommended company to approve autographs. If anyone believes it's possible to do more than have an independent, third party company approve autographs before they go on the net for sale, then you can not be satisfied but for turning over control of what is and what is not good to that person.

In addition, these books came from eBay which can be verified. I realize that is NOT a great recommendation but it proves that no person here is faking autographs and never has. I never touched the above books nor do I touch 99% of the books sold by my company. That is all done by a professional staff of seven to ten people who work for me. I am responsible and liable for their actions as the owner of the company. But it is my perception that most people who are placing comments here do not understand how this and other large or even medium sized companies work. The work is performed by lower level staff after middle-managers arrange for the autographs to be reviewed and aproved. As the owner of the company I do not perform any of those duties but again, I am responsible and liable. In addition, it is my pocked where all monies come from when there are problems and mistakes. Unfortunately, you can not sell thousands of autographs in this world and not sell a few fakes by mistake. To the person who uses the example of having sent me an email saying I had a fake King autograph and I responded to them, that is NOT true. That too would of been an employee. BUT, if they had your email and did not end the auction then please share that with me. They will be terminated for doing wrong. That is, IF they had the 24 hour notice (eBay rules) to end the listing or unless it had GAI, PSA or James Spence Autographs confirmation that the autograph was good. We follow what eBay says. The playground belongs to eBay. Playing by their rules is all anyone can do when selling items on their site.

I sincerely regret that anyone has to deal with buying fake autographs. But, I promise you that my collection of fake autographs far out numbers anyones. I know this company has lost over one-hundred thousand dollars due to buying fakes on eBay alone. That money is lost by my company. I have sued multiple people who have intentionally sold fake autographs. In my earlier years I spent countless hours trying to clean-up the internet of fake autographs. I have not given up. Anyone can focus on the bad or the good....totally your choice. Anything we sell here comes with a lifetime, money back guarantee and that policy is the fairest policy any company can offer. Most, including the big auction houses do not stand behind their autographs for life but instead limit it to one to three months and some don't stand behind their autographs at all and instead sell as-is. Again, I am willing to answer any questions but will not be checking this site very often. Others have totally stopped coming to this site due to the negativity and uncolaberated attacks being made. It takes far too much time to do this and I am struggling to keep the employees and bills paid. But, anyone is welcome to email me direct at timmiller@flatsigned.com and whatever I say in those emails may be posted with my permission. I wish everyone out there the best!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

Daghain
12-07-2009, 01:45 PM
Again, I am willing to answer any questions but will not be checking this site very often. Others have totally stopped coming to this site due to the negativity and uncolaberated attacks being made.
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

I find this hard to believe, as I haven't seen anyone disappear lately, nor have I (or any of the other staff as far as I know) had any complaints from anyone about this sort of behavior. So, unless you're willing to come up with a list of these unhappy people, I'd really appreciate it if you'd quit trying to use this as an excuse to sidestep the real issues here.

Timmy Miller
12-07-2009, 01:50 PM
...one more thing and that is on the comment by Turtlex who refers to James. I did not blame anyone here or collectors in general for my Chapter 11. TALK ABOUT TWISTING WORDS!!! And, to turn my statement of my buying signed books from eBay, selling them, then to use that as I "knowingly selling fakes" is illogical and obviously twisted...not to mention false. To clarify, I didn't know it was fake or I wouldn't of purchased the book in the first place.....RIGHT? But, I am sure someone will find an answer to that logical statement. It's easy to tear down. It's hard to build something. Who here has never done something wrong by accident? Let them throw the stones.

STATEMENT FROM TURTLEX
I can't believe you'd blame collector's - who freely and openly share their experiences, thoughts and opinions - for any financial difficulty you might be experiencing.

Way to completely alienate your target buyers.

Turtlex, that is not what was said and you intentionally twisted my words. See explanation above. If those who read this and believed the statement made sense and/or was true, then you would believe anything. Some people can not be convinced of anything....even the obvious. So it's a waste of time trying. Gone and out!
Sincerely,
TIm Miller

lophophoras
12-07-2009, 02:28 PM
...one more thing and that is on the comment by Turtlex who refers to James. I did not blame anyone here or collectors in general for my Chapter 11. TALK ABOUT TWISTING WORDS!!! And, to turn my statement of my buying signed books from eBay, selling them, then to use that as I "knowingly selling fakes" is illogical and obviously twisted...not to mention false. To clarify, I didn't know it was fake or I wouldn't of purchased the book in the first place.....RIGHT? But, I am sure someone will find an answer to that logical statement. It's easy to tear down. It's hard to build something. Who here has never done something wrong by accident? Let them throw the stones.

STATEMENT FROM TURTLEX
I can't believe you'd blame collector's - who freely and openly share their experiences, thoughts and opinions - for any financial difficulty you might be experiencing.

Way to completely alienate your target buyers.

Turtlex, that is not what was said and you intentionally twisted my words. See explanation above. If those who read this and believed the statement made sense and/or was true, then you would believe anything. Some people can not be convinced of anything....even the obvious. So it's a waste of time trying. Gone and out!
Sincerely,
TIm Miller

Actually, I am the one that said I found it very hard to believe anyone on this site had anything to do with you having to file Chapter 11. Turtlex only agreed with me.

carlosdetweiller
12-07-2009, 03:01 PM
To the person who uses the example of having sent me an email saying I had a fake King autograph and I responded to them, that is NOT true. That too would of been an employee.



It is true. It was you. You signed your name to the e-mail reply. This was a long time ago and, likely, before you had so many employees. This was back in the days when we could call and, more than likely, it was you who answered the phone. Remember those days, Tim?

Patrick
12-07-2009, 03:19 PM
Again, I am willing to answer any questions but will not be checking this site very often. Others have totally stopped coming to this site due to the negativity and uncolaberated attacks being made.
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

I find this hard to believe, as I haven't seen anyone disappear lately, nor have I (or any of the other staff as far as I know) had any complaints from anyone about this sort of behavior. So, unless you're willing to come up with a list of these unhappy people, I'd really appreciate it if you'd quit trying to use this as an excuse to sidestep the real issues here.
This site, like other open-to-the-public sites, has its lurkers (members and/or non-members) who come here to glean information, but do not contribute nor participate. I hope they someday do join in, but in the meantime, it may be that some lurkers have disappeared - we would never know.

By the way, I think the love shines through quite clearly when this forum is viewed as a whole. While negative sentiments are sometimes expressed, this group by and large is able to back up those impressions with hard examples. We've seen that ability to provide specific support or reasoning for one's disappointment or distrust when it appears, in this thread and in others. However most of this forum is full of positive energy, excitement, enthusiasm, and support for King as an author and for those who produce, sell and buy collectible editions of his books. In fact the members who participate in this forum regularly, most of whom are far more knowledgeable than I am, go out of their way to make new collectors feel welcome.

turtlex
12-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Tim - Sorry you felt that I was twisting your words. I really was just responding to what I read... and that is how it came off to me.

I did, and still do, agree with James.

Here's my post to those who might have missed it :

I quoted Tim's own words ( ie : some here have helped cause that financial difficulty ) and responded, agreeing with lop.


Tim - I'm going to have to agree completely, and 100%, with James.


I try to focus on what brings in the money which MAY get me out of Chapter 11. That is my goal and whether intentionally or unintentionally, some here have helped cause that financial difficulty.
*italics mine for reference

I can't believe you'd blame collector's - who freely and openly share their experiences, thoughts and opinions - for any financial difficulty you might be experiencing.

Way to completely alienate your target buyers.

Randall Flagg
12-07-2009, 04:33 PM
... I am responsible and liable for their actions as the owner of the company.
Agreed.

..
As the owner of the company I do not perform any of those duties but again, I am responsible and liable.
Once again agreed.



.But, I promise you that my collection of fake autographs far out numbers anyones.
I hope that is a typo.

turtlex
12-07-2009, 04:35 PM
:rofl: Jerome!! WIN!

Patrick
12-07-2009, 04:48 PM
:lol:

I think he's saying that he has bought many books, found out the sigs are fakes, and therefore are not selling them - thus he has the largest collection of fake autographs.

jhanic
12-07-2009, 04:52 PM
It's unfortunate that almost all of all of Timmy's posts seem so defensive in tone. I think that's what turns most of us off. If he'd been (or will be, if he continues to post even though he says he won't) more open and accepting, I think that would have helped salvage his reputation among us.

John

Randall Flagg
12-07-2009, 04:54 PM
According your own press release (http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=782&z=4) (quoted in entirety..sorry, very lengthy),
You yourself are an expert and lend your expertise.. 'regarding contemporary values of of rare autographed books'.

I believe value would indicate authenticity, as a fake would be worthless.

'As President and CEO of the multi-million dollar autographed book company and publisher FlatSigned Press, Inc., Miller consistently lends his expertise to television, radio and newspaper personalities and journalists researching the historical accounts and contemporary values of rare autographed books. He is a contributor to "The Sanders Price Guide to Autographs," the definitive price guide for autograph collectors, and many other trade and consumer autograph publications.

Full release:

PRNewsChannel (http://www.prnewschannel.com/)) / August 23, 2008 / Nashville, Tenn. – One of the last relationships Hunter S. Thompson developed was with a publisher of autographed, limited edition books. That relationship was with the founder and owner of FlatSigned Press, Tim Miller. Miller and Thompson corresponded many times during the final year of Thompson's life and they became close. Although he was reclusive, Thompson talked with Miller, autographed books for FlatSigned and had many discussions of politics, morals and life in general. The late journalist Dr. Hunter S. Thompson left a public image of a madman, constantly engaged in drug-fueled odysseys through the American underbelly in the 1960s and 1970s, a side of him immortalized in the Hollywood films "Where the Buffalo Roam" starring Bill Murray and "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," in which Johnny Depp went over the top as a hallucinogen-crazed Thompson. That image was cast in stone when Gerry Trudeau transformed him into the character of "Raoul Duke" in his "Doonesbury" comic strip.
But the new documentary "Gonzo: The Life and Work of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson" shows a different portrait of Thompson – that of a brilliant, often frighteningly lucid mind at work, coolly and objectively dissecting the world around him even as that world drove him to use drugs and alcohol as an intermediary between himself and the awful reality he documented so well. During his race for sheriff of Colorado's Pitken County (home to the resort town of Aspen) in 1970, he was written up in the media as the "freak power" candidate, and while there couldn't help but be a general circus air around any candidacy that featured as its logo a fist clenching a peyote button, Thompson was anything but the stereotypical hippie/yippy making vague declarations about peace and love and tuning in. In one debate, he declared memorably that "I think that the marijuana laws are one of the reasons that has engendered the lack of respect that cops complain about all over the country. When you've got a whole generation that grows up as felons, and they know that the law's ridiculous; they're told all this gibberish about it, that it drives you crazy and makes your brain soft, makes your feet fall off…even the police know it's a silly law."
Days after 9/11, he wrote prophetically that what was to come "will be a Religious War, a sort of Christian Jihad, fueled by religious hatred and led by merciless fanatics on both sides. It will be guerilla warfare on a global scale, with no front lines and no identifiable enemy…We are going to punish somebody for this attack, but just who or what will be blown to smithereens for it is hard to say. Maybe Afghanistan, maybe Pakistan or Iraq, or possibly all three at once…This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is not guaranteed -- for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as George W. Bush."
Tim Miller, President and CEO of FlatSigned Press, first came into contact with Dr. Thompson near the end of his life. "I'd worked with the late President Ford on several projects and he wintered in Aspen, and so I heard from people there about Thompson, who lived in Woody Creek, not far off." A specialist in collectible books and signed editions, Miller knew that Thompson was one of the more reclusive authors around. "I sent him a letter, asking him if he'd be willing to autograph some books, and he wrote back, giving me his phone number, and said yes, he would, if I sent him the biggest bottle they made of Chivas Regal 'Royal Salute' Scotch Whiskey." Miller willingly complied and so began not only a business relationship but a friendship with Thompson.
Knowing Thompson had recently gotten married, Miller sent his nephew out for expensive, engraved shot glasses for Thompson and his new wife Anita. "We had them personalized with his and his wife Anita's names, and I know he liked them, even though he called them the 'ugly jiggers' a number of times during our conversations and his letters to me." Thompson autographed twelve books for Miller, but what made them special were the stories he wrote in them. "They weren't 'flatsigned' in the traditional sense, which is when a book has the author's signature directly on a page of the book but without being personalized," Miller explained. "He'd write stories in them, wild stuff. In one case, he knew that my nephew had just gotten married, and he wrote in one book about how he had sex with my nephew's new wife in Houston, Texas." Although largely unknown to the public, Thompson considered himself one of the original "Merry Pranksters" of Ken Kesey fame. Thompson and Kesey were friends, along with others not so well known to be part of the group, including Larry McMurtry, with whom Miller also had contact. Miller and Thompson shared stories about McMurtry and the other members of this truly legendary gang of peace lovers and drug proponents.
Miller could tell from their conversations that Thompson was "truly infatuated" with his new bride, who was young enough to be his daughter. His typical waking hours were 2 pm on, and he would just be getting going around midnight. "He'd always let his machine pick up calls, but when he heard my voice, he'd always pick up. Whatever his reputation, in reality he was a sweet, kind, helpful guy." The last time they spoke, Thompson and Anita were watching a movie in their home theater. "He seemed relaxed and happy, but he was dead, a suicide, less than a month later."
Thompson became a recluse partly out of fear, Miller said. "He always feared being murdered by someone he knew; from his past or his present. That fear began with his book on the Hell's Angels which Thompson had written and was published in 1966. "He hated public signings and interviews, and drank a lot out of fear. He even came up to one signing, which was required by his contract with his publisher, in a limo, threw signed bookplates out the window of the car, and sped off. That, in his mind, fulfilled his contractual obligation to his publisher." "Gonzo" substantiates this in a memorable scene where, not long after publication of the book "Hell's Angels," a young Thompson appears on a talk show where host and guest are seated in the center of the studio, and a member of the Angels roars in and circles them on his motorcycle. As the Angel and Thompson dispute how Thompson was bounced out of the gang (he interfered when one of the members was beating a woman), the fear on Thompson's face is palpable.
"It's a real loss for the country," Miller said of Thompson's death. "As his wife Anita says in the movie, with what's going on in the country now, well, now more than ever we could use a voice like his. Thompson was an intellectual politically and otherwise. He knew and felt strongly about how our country was on the wrong path and had ideas as to how to change things for the better. He was never elected to political office but he would have served proudly and would have been an improvement over so many of our elected, political leaders."
About FlatSigned Press
Founded in 1998, FlatSigned Press, Inc. is a rare book seller and publishing company specializing in the sale and publishing of rare and collectible books, signed first-editions, manuscripts, historical documents, art, and autographs. FlatSigned has worked with many of the world's most famous authors and notable figures including the late President Gerald R. Ford, astronaut and moonwalker Buzz Aldrin, and General Hal Moore, best known for his leadership during the battle of La Drang during the Vietnam War, well-detailed in the 1992 book "We Were Soldiers Once… And Young," which became the 2002 film "We Were Soldiers" starring Mel Gibson. The firm's catalog features autographed books from a diverse group of authors, including:
Supreme Court Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Anthony Kennedy, Sandra Day O'Connor, William Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas;
Mercury and Apollo astronauts Buzz Aldrin, Alan Bean, Scott Carpenter, Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, and Wally Schirra;
Former United States Presidents (and presidential candidates) George H. W. Bush, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Hillary Rodham Clinton;
As well as authors H. G. "Buzz" Bissinger, Ray Bradbury, Dan Brown, Vincent Bugliosi, James Lee Burke, Arthur C. Clarke, Joe Galloway, William Goldman, Richard Gordon, Sue Grafton, John Grisham, John Irving, Stephen King, Harper Lee, Cormac McCarthy, Larry McMurtry, Arthur Miller, Lt. General Hal Moore, Tim O'Brien, E. Annie Proulx, Anne Rice, Wilbur Smith, Nicholas Sparks, Hunter S. Thompson, Kurt Vonnegut, and Joseph Wambaugh.
Coined by legendary horror writer Stephen King, the term FlatSigned refers to the most desirable type of collectible book: One that is signed by the author directly on the title page without an inscription. FlatSigned has consistently earned annual sales in excess of $2 million and an EBITA profit of 30%. Additional information can be obtained from www.flatsigned.comor (http://www.flatsigned.comor/)by calling 1-866-FLATSIGNED.
About Owner and Publisher of FlatSigned Press Inc., Tim Miller: Born to an impoverished southern family that had no running water until he was 13, Tim Miller has worked hard his entire life, becoming one of the most notable publishers and book collectors in the world. Throughout his illustrious career, the Lyndon Baines Johnson Scholar has served as White House Press Correspondent and worked directly for the U.S. Congress. He held Certified Press Credentials for both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate. He has been honored with distinctions including Memphis, TN newspaper "The Commercial Appeal's" version of President George W. Bush's 1,000 Points of Light Award, named to Who's Who in America for seven consecutive years, and named to Who's Who in American Colleges four consecutive years. Always civic-minded, Miller has held distinctive positions including National Staff Officer for the United States Junior Chamber of Commerce, President of the Memphis Junior Chamber of Commerce, State Officer of the Tennessee Jaycees, and Executive Director of the Wisconsin Junior Chamber. A graduate of Austin Peay State University, he attended the Memphis State University School of Law and Western Washington State University. Miller has also held the post of Personnel Officer for St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. His civic contributions have earned him the nationally-recognized Steve Little Memorial Award from the United States Jaycees.
As President and CEO of the multi-million dollar autographed book company and publisher FlatSigned Press, Inc., Miller consistently lends his expertise to television, radio and newspaper personalities and journalists researching the historical accounts and contemporary values of rare autographed books. He is a contributor to "The Sanders Price Guide to Autographs," the definitive price guide for autograph collectors, and many other trade and consumer autograph publications. He maintains memberships in the Better Business Bureau, The International Society of Appraisers, The Manuscript Society and the Universal Autograph Collectors Club, and has been featured in various programs and publications including cable television channel QVC, the Gordon Liddy Show, and national network news. Additional information can be obtained from www.flatsigned.com (http://www.flatsigned.com/).
To request an interview contact:
Tim Miller, President and CEO FlatSigned Press, Inc.
Phone: 615-268-5245
Email: timmiller@flatsigned.com
Web site: www.flatsigned.com (http://www.flatsigned.com/)

Matt
12-08-2009, 08:05 AM
Again, I am willing to answer any questions but will not be checking this site very often. Others have totally stopped coming to this site due to the negativity and uncolaberated attacks being made. It takes far too much time to do this and I am struggling to keep the employees and bills paid. But, anyone is welcome to email me direct at timmiller@flatsigned.com and whatever I say in those emails may be posted with my permission. I wish everyone out there the best!I am not a collector Tim but I own the place so I thought I would chime in on this comment. I know you said you won't be back so I'll make this more for the collectors that are here because you a fine group of people.

This site can boast that it has the largest active group of King collectors on the internet. Among our members we have some of the top and most respected opinions in this particular field. If I was selling something collectible having to do with King, this site would represent an incredible pool of FREE knowledge about the subject.

These people don't come here and offer their enormous amount of wisdom and kindness because the site or forum is negative, it is the opposite in fact. Because of our dedicated staff and members, this forum in particular has become THE place on the internet to discuss King collectibles and that is because it stands on the ideas of respectful and positive discussion.

If you ran into comments you didn't like here, that is not because of the members, it is because of legitimate examples of questionable business practices that have been posed to you in a respectful manner. I'm fine if you don't want to discuss it but calling this group of people negative is seriously counter productive to the goal of your business because people who collect one thing live in circles of people that collect everything.

Brice
12-08-2009, 11:52 AM
Before I probably wouldn't have bought a book from you. After how you've represented yourself I certainly wouldn't....no book...at any price...any bargain. Thanks for convincing me. :)

e_taylor
12-08-2009, 02:38 PM
Everyone knows that COAs aren't worth the paper they are printed on, more often than not, even from "recommended" companies. No group of people can possibly have in depth knowledge of every potential signature. Timmy should know this best of all people.

What more can we expect from you? Don't sell autographs you can't personally back up. If you and your "people" didn't get them in person, or you can't confirm their authenticity yourself, then don't sell them as the real thing.

In the case of the Obama signatures, you still haven't answered to your selling of fakes. You simply shift the blame to the people who authenticated them and then went on a tirade about how this site is negative.

We are not unintelligent people. We can see that you came here to pull the wool over out eyes and get some free marketing. But you failed. If you really want to discuss, we'd be more than happy to have us a nice palaver, but if not, then maybe its best you stay away from us and our "negativity".

Brice
12-08-2009, 04:12 PM
I'm thinking of just skipping the useless stuff and just selling COAs by themselves on EBAY. :cyclops: Of course I'll offer COAs for the COAs so the customers can feel comfortable in the authenticity of the sold COAs.

lophophoras
12-09-2009, 04:48 AM
:wtf:

ChristineB
12-09-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm thinking of just skipping the useless stuff and just selling COAs by themselves on EBAY. :cyclops: Of course I'll offer COAs for the COAs so the customers can feel comfortable in the authenticity of the sold COAs.

:rofl:

Brice
12-09-2009, 02:01 PM
;)

Calla_Wolf
12-10-2009, 03:05 AM
There was a time, when running SKFakes, when I thought of offering an appraisal and COA service. Between me and the panel members, we were five collectors with a vast combined knowledge (they had the real knowledge - I saw myself as a co-ordinator).

The advantages are obvious - trusted source, depth of knowledge, the fact that we were offering appraisals of ONE author's signature...

...but in the end I decided against it - it would be too easy for someone to fake a COA, match it up with a fake signature and happily destroy OUR reputation.

COAs are useless.

Sam
12-10-2009, 08:09 AM
Ceri, unless you're marking the COAs with an embossment and using high quality paper to hold that embossment, any marking (secret or otherwise) can and will be duplicated by the unscrupulous thieves of the collecting world. I imagine even those little holograms that sports authenticators like to use have been duplicated.

Hell, if someone can counterfeit money (both bills AND coins) they can pretty much counterfeit anything else.

Brice
12-10-2009, 08:12 AM
Yeah, really I think all that stuff does is make it a little more difficult. If someone is determined to make a copy they will.

Sam
12-10-2009, 08:24 AM
The embossment is ALL that would prevent someone from being able to copy it, if anything would. The problem there is I knew a dealer who did that very thing. He used an embossment on the COAs he issued, but his COAs were crap because he sold items that were clear forgeries as the real deal.

Brice
12-10-2009, 08:27 AM
Embossments can be replicated too.

turtlex
12-10-2009, 08:29 AM
I'm ready to start a business of COA'ing COAs.

lophophoras
12-10-2009, 08:33 AM
I'll take care of your southeast distributions for you.

:evil:

Patrick
12-10-2009, 11:04 AM
There was a time, when running SKFakes, when I thought of offering an appraisal and COA service. Between me and the panel members, we were five collectors with a vast combined knowledge (they had the real knowledge - I saw myself as a co-ordinator).

The advantages are obvious - trusted source, depth of knowledge, the fact that we were offering appraisals of ONE author's signature...

...but in the end I decided against it - it would be too easy for someone to fake a COA, match it up with a fake signature and happily destroy OUR reputation.

COAs are useless.
Actually I disagree about the "useless" comment in this particular scenario.

PSA/DNA website has the right concept, in my opinion, with that website verification of COA's based on serial number.

If you set up the same simple database and kept it current, when a "Ceri-Certified COA" were presented, the potential buyer could look up the serial number on your website and view your rating along with a photo of the item certified. Any system could be worked around, I suppose, but the online database system with photos would make it much harder to fake your COA's.

You guys' expertise plus that type of database would be the first COA system that I ever trusted, and would do so gladly.

possum
12-11-2009, 09:43 PM
I have been intrigued by the exchanges with Mr. Miller. The first I ever heard of him years ago concerned a sale of a asian pirate edition of "To Kill a Mockingbird" as a true first. I don't know the merits of that case but it would be consistent with what I have seen of TM's ebay listings. Again and again I have seen listings where the "original" DJ was a facsimile or from a completely different edition. We can all make mistakes but no bookseller worthy of the name could confuse the DJ of the American first of Joyce's Ulysses with one from the Modern Library edition. I have seen multiple listings where the BIG PRINT says first printing but a photo shows "second printing." This smacks of plausible denial should an unhappy buyer catch on.

As for shilling, it's hard to prove. But I do know that, just before FS was booted from ebay for a period, there was a bidder in Nashville with a name like Moondark9 who was bidding on and winning (?) hundreds of FS auctions in a very short span of time. When FS was booted so was Moondark9. I watched a copy of Gravity's Rainbow (simultaneously listed on ABE at $4500) go for a few hundred on a no-reserve auction. That same, self-described "unique" copy was back up for sale at a later date. Makes a body suspicious.

It's not just Flatlinned's practice of skinning newby buyers (an honest if sleazy practice) that puts me off, it's his relentless puffery and self-promotion. As an earlier poster noted, Tim professes to be an expert in nearly everything until someone catches him in a error that a new hire at Barnes & Noble wouldn't make.

e_taylor
12-12-2009, 07:06 AM
Another thought.

In regards to Tim's membership in the different professional associations. If they are anything like other associations then you are a member in good standing so long as you pay your yearly dues. Case in point the Canadian and American Kennel Clubs - my dog was a rescue from a breeder who abused her. When we called the CKC and AKC to file complaints we were told that she was a member in good standing and that they don't actually deal with complaints. I don't know for sure that the professional bookseller's associations are the same, but I can make a solid assumption that they are.

jemaher
12-12-2009, 05:18 PM
I have tried to read the posts on this thread, but some are lengthy....

Let me say that I have done business with tim miller for almost a decade. He has been a resource on buying king books and other collectibles. By and large I have been satisfied with my dealings as being fair , honest, and above reproach. People have criticized him for self promotion....Hello??? He is a business man.

I run a business too. i employ 12 people and have over $500,000 payroll and $750,000 annual overhead. If we have a bad month on collections, ALL 12 people still expect a paycheck. You have to put asses in the seats in order to pay the bills.

I can extrapolate that he has to promote himself in order to "pay the Bills"

Over the years, Tim and I have not always seen eye to eye on the value of an item, and some of those deals went to other collectors. In a few cases I paid well over market price because I wanted the item right damn now and could not wait for "fair market priced items " to come available.

I just bought a SL gunslinger from him at well BELOW market and am happy to have it.
I also won an auction for a signed limited book By FDR at less than half the Auction house value... So Much for my suspicions about shill bidders.

I would sum it up by saying give the guy a break......... he is providing a service outlet for collectibles and running a business. all in all I have found him to be honest and helpful

Sam
12-12-2009, 06:58 PM
I do not and will not criticize someone for self-promotion. Anyone in business must do this to operate. We call it advertising and it's a legitimate business need. Even self-promotion on message boards such as this isn't bad for business.

Additionally, I'm honestly happy that in your dealings you've found Tim Miller to be beyond reproach. I can't say the same for my one dealing with him. So far I have found that his business hides the complete truth with regards to damaged items in their inventory. While they inform you that the item is damaged, a one inch ripped of piece of the dust jacket may be described as a small tear and severely broken corners may be described as having slight rubbing. A book in Fair condition may be represented as being in Very Good condition, and pictures will be arrainged so as to hide any damage that may be present. I find that to be far from reproach and to be borderline dishonest.

As to the shill bidding, I feel like a good case for that has been made, however, ebay's new policy of hiding the identities of bidders from one another now makes proving that almost impossible. I believe it happens, if only to drive the price of the auction into the profit zone. Maybe not in every auction, but in enough of them for it to warrant discussion.

I understand jemaher that you feel Tim is a good guy and is providing a worthwhile service. I think that while he may actually be a good guy, his business's ethics are not showing that to many of those who have posted here. I don't think he deserves a break anymore than I think my idiot neighbor deserves one (the short of that story is he pretended to rob a convenience store, as a joke, with his cell phone posing as a gun in his pocket and is now facing prison time). Tim Miller's business is selling collectible books to collectors, not hiding the condition of those same books in order to sell them for higher prices, not selling books with forged signatures (though I KNOW it does happen even to the best and most watchful seller of signed items), and not having friends or employees bid on items on ebay with the intent to drive the price ever higher.

Right now the collector's market is very soft and many sellers are now seeing the items they paid good money for (and got great bargains on) several years ago are now selling for less than they paid for them. This is happening to people everywhere in nearly every facet of the secondary market. Many statues and busts in the comic market can be found on ebay days after their release for less than what you just bought it brand new from your local comic store. People who bought houses five years ago have learned the value of their home now is much, much less (as much as 25% in some areas near where I live). Collector's who bought valuable copies of books four years ago are letting those same copies go now at hundreds less than what they paid for them just to make house and car payments because they've lost their job. Everyone is hurting, everyone is aching from the economy in some form or another. That doesn't give anyone the right to cheat people though. That doesn't excuse mistakes like selling forged books. It doesn't excuse shilling the auction higher to artificially inflate the value of the book up for sale just because it has dropped.

If you are running a business that caters to our collectible desires, you should know that just because you provide such service isn't going to excuse you. The fact that you provide that service actually does the opposite. It empowers you and obligates you to be:
1) honest to your customers about the items you are selling
2) watchful for good deals and bad ones as well as for fakes
3) careful in the selection of your inventory (especially the signed items)
4) knowledgable of the market as it is today and the direction it seems to be heading toward tomorrow as well as the very items you are selling.
You are now an authority figure whose opinion holds great weight when it comes to authenticating signatures, identifying real and fake items (in the case of the bookseller that means 1st editions, BCEs, later printings, homemade dust jackets, and any other items that people may pass off as the real thing), and actually setting prices in the market. This is a lot of power, and I simply don't have enough forgiveness in me to give anyone who abuses, or allows their employees to abuse, that power any breaks.

redsoxfan565
12-13-2009, 06:39 AM
The fakes keep pouring in:

This one is so bad:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-SIGNED-BP-1st-THE-CENTURY-Young-Readers_W0QQitemZ130350953946QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAn tiquarian_Collectible?hash=item1e5985b5da

O is off here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/President-Barack-Obama-SIGNED-1st-MOCKINGBIRD-Book-COA_W0QQitemZ140366735985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item20ae826a71

The sig looks ok, but the O is off, and there is not a chance Obama actually signed this book. He was very picky about what books he signed.


This signature is good:
http://cgi.ebay.com/President-Barack-Obama-SIGNED-1st-AUDACITY-OF-HOPE-COA_W0QQitemZ130351508122QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item1e598e2a9a


How about a Bill Clinton fake?
http://cgi.ebay.com/President-Bill-Clinton-SIGNED-1st-MY-LIFE-Bio-COA_W0QQitemZ380187119927QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item5884eb1137

More Obama fakes that actually ended:
http://cgi.ebay.com/President-Barack-Obama-SIGNED-PROFILES-John-F-Kennedy_W0QQitemZ140364327345QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAn tiquarian_Collectible?hash=item20ae5da9b1

http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-SIGNED-1st-AUDACITY-OF-HOPE-President-Book_W0QQitemZ140364851429QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item20ae65a8e5

Another close one, and I'm about 70/30 sure that this is good, but a few things like the B and the thickness of the signature are making me unsure about this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-SIGNED-TRUE-1st-DREAMS-FROM-MY-FATHER-COA_W0QQitemZ130349580451QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiqu arian_Collectible?hash=item1e5970c0a3




So, to anybody who has bought from this guy before, I would make sure your signatures are actually authentic. I wouldn't trust a single book this guy has sold, because of the amount of fakes he sells.

redsoxfan565
12-13-2009, 06:57 AM
Both of the Obama autographs above were carefully reviewed and approved by GAI. I do not have any financial interest in GAI. They are eBay's recommended company to approve autographs. If anyone believes it's possible to do more than have an independent, third party company approve autographs before they go on the net for sale, then you can not be satisfied but for turning over control of what is and what is not good to that person.

In addition, these books came from eBay which can be verified. I realize that is NOT a great recommendation but it proves that no person here is faking autographs and never has. I never touched the above books nor do I touch 99% of the books sold by my company. That is all done by a professional staff of seven to ten people who work for me. I am responsible and liable for their actions as the owner of the company. But it is my perception that most people who are placing comments here do not understand how this and other large or even medium sized companies work. The work is performed by lower level staff after middle-managers arrange for the autographs to be reviewed and aproved. As the owner of the company I do not perform any of those duties but again, I am responsible and liable. In addition, it is my pocked where all monies come from when there are problems and mistakes. Unfortunately, you can not sell thousands of autographs in this world and not sell a few fakes by mistake. To the person who uses the example of having sent me an email saying I had a fake King autograph and I responded to them, that is NOT true. That too would of been an employee. BUT, if they had your email and did not end the auction then please share that with me. They will be terminated for doing wrong. That is, IF they had the 24 hour notice (eBay rules) to end the listing or unless it had GAI, PSA or James Spence Autographs confirmation that the autograph was good. We follow what eBay says. The playground belongs to eBay. Playing by their rules is all anyone can do when selling items on their site.

I sincerely regret that anyone has to deal with buying fake autographs. But, I promise you that my collection of fake autographs far out numbers anyones. I know this company has lost over one-hundred thousand dollars due to buying fakes on eBay alone. That money is lost by my company. I have sued multiple people who have intentionally sold fake autographs. In my earlier years I spent countless hours trying to clean-up the internet of fake autographs. I have not given up. Anyone can focus on the bad or the good....totally your choice. Anything we sell here comes with a lifetime, money back guarantee and that policy is the fairest policy any company can offer. Most, including the big auction houses do not stand behind their autographs for life but instead limit it to one to three months and some don't stand behind their autographs at all and instead sell as-is. Again, I am willing to answer any questions but will not be checking this site very often. Others have totally stopped coming to this site due to the negativity and uncolaberated attacks being made. It takes far too much time to do this and I am struggling to keep the employees and bills paid. But, anyone is welcome to email me direct at timmiller@flatsigned.com and whatever I say in those emails may be posted with my permission. I wish everyone out there the best!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller



GAI has been recognized as a terrible company that will issue COA's for anything. 90% of all GAI certed items are fakes. Who the hell cares who certified it anyways? You and your people should be carefully looking at the signatures to verify that they are actually authentic. Most of these Obama's that you have sold and are selling can be looked at and generally speaking, most people could detect a fake Obama from a real one. It isn't rocket science.

The problem here, is that you are deferring blame to your "employees." I don't know what kind of a ship you run over there, but you can't have a large employed staff, due to your financial problems. Over the years, many people have questioned the signatures in the books, but I guess you never realized that most were fake?

"Unfortunately, you can not sell thousands of autographs in this world and not sell a few fakes by mistake."

This isn't a mistake, nor is a few mistakes. This is a PROBLEM. You are doing this knowingly. I have emailed your company multiple times in the past couple of years saying that many of the Obama signatures you are selling are fakes. I got the same bullshit response that another poster above received, saying that the signatures are all legit, and not to worry. You know damn well you are selling fake autographs, it's gotten to the point where almost all of the Obama's you are selling/have sold are fakes.

Stop giving me and everyone else the run around, and just burn the forged Obama books, and stop buying more fake ones.

Dolan
01-14-2010, 07:16 AM
Check out this email Timmy just sent out. I wonder what's going on:


Dear Dolan:

I want to give you a reward for your helping me for one minute. The reward if you can help is $1,000.00 in FREE merchandise of your choice. This reward is offered to the first three people who can honestly tell me that they heard LIVE or even HEARD ABOUT IT LATER from anyone but us, the Don Imus commercials he read live on WFAN in January/February of 2007, when he advertised FlatSigned Books and our President Gerald Ford book specifically. FlatSigned paid WFAN and Don Imus to read a script both sides agreed to, promoting our Signed/Limited Gerald R. Ford book. Did you hear the commercials? Did you hear about it later?

In addition to the above I would like to ask you to let me know what has caused you to stop buying books for a period of time from FlatSigned. The first 20 people who reply honestly to this question to my email timmiller@flatsigned.com will get a FREE, FIRST PRINTING, FLATSIGNED Book by an author like John Grisham, Patricia Cornwell, etc. I will even cover the shipping costs so you have to pay not even a penny. All I need is your help with this marketing survey and it will take you less than two minutes to respond.

Thank you for your past support and I hope you will become a customer again. Here are the Questions:

Did you hear the Don Imus commercials live on WFAN?
Did you hear about the Don Imus commercials ANYTIME later from another person other than from FlatSigned?
What did you hear about these commercials?
What caused you to stop buying books for a period from FlatSigned Books?
What book would you like to have for your personal collection of rare books right now?

Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller
President
www.FlatSigned.com Inc.

COMPANY SHIPPING/PHONE INFO:

FlatSigned Books
501 MetroPlex Drive Suite 209
Nashville, TN 37211
PHONE (615) 331-5066

P.S. Check the website www.FlatSigned.com for new NEWS, DISCOUNTS and Special Offers!

turtlex
01-14-2010, 07:27 AM
You know what's interesting... I collect Patricia Cornwell signed books, and I never checked FlatSigned for editions until just now that I see that email. And his prices are just way too high !!

I get my Cornwell books from VJ Books, signed, first editions and they're like an average of 40 dollars ... FlatSigned has them for $90 or more !

Example :
Black Notice, signed first edition F/F :
FlatSigned = $89
VJ Books = $29.99

Randall Flagg
01-14-2010, 07:29 AM
Trying to gather evidence for a lawsuit.

DavidK44
01-14-2010, 10:40 AM
All fake-signature issues aside, I'm not willing to purchase a signed book with one of their authenticity number tags. I want a signed book in as close to pristine condition as possible, and having a tag slapped onto it pretty much ruins it completely.

Rahfa
01-14-2010, 03:39 PM
This is BS! I've actually sold stuff to him...why didn't I get the $1000 free stuff deal!

turtlex
01-15-2010, 06:02 PM
Copying this to the Flatsigned Thread :


these are not the original endpages... they have been replaced.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-RARE-SIGNED-1st-CARRIE-Tabitha-Tabby-Book_W0QQitemZ380197620335QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item58858b4a6f


I sent a question through eBay asking about the end papers - wonder if he'll reply?


Dear Flatsigned - It appears that this book has had the endpapers replaced. The one's pictured here are not original. Your auction doesn't mention this fact. Please advise.

Randall Flagg
01-15-2010, 06:40 PM
Thanks Pam.
I'm sure Tim will come in and either clarify the auction, or offer a reward for someone who "heard it".

Brice
01-16-2010, 06:46 AM
:lol:

Timmy Miller
01-17-2010, 04:00 PM
To Possum, Management and Others:

Some here have now said that I sound defensive when I post my messages. Do you not see nor understand why I would be defensive? There are many absolute lies posted here about me and my company. But, they are right. I should always maintain my composure even when being lied about. So for that I apologize.

Regarding the To Kill a Mockingbird "story", you state your comments as facts and they are absolutely false. This is one of only four sales that have caused much embellishment over the years due to people just like this, stating things as fact when they don't know. How would they know unless they are THE person?

The facts of this "story" are simple. First, this sale happened over 11 years ago. I was not a professional bookseller and it was just me running the company. The book was pictured showing every important aspect of the book and put on eBay with a BUY NOW price of several thousand dollars but I honestly forget the amount. A person from Wyoming emailed then excitedly phoned me offering to take the book "AS IS" if I would agree to reduce the price to half. I did. He then sent the book to the Peter Stern in Boston. Peter informed the buyer it was a Taiwanese, pirated copy. The buyer came back to me and explained and asked for his money back. I refused based on the agreement he made. I even asked the buyer had he discovered that the book was worth more, would he then come back to me and pay more. He admitted he would not.

I ask for the person who told this false story to request that it be removed. Or, please have the integrity to tell me your name and address so that we can exchange letters.

At that time I was not a business. I was not a professional. Nor was selling books my job nor primary income. He took the chance for half price. He saw pictures, then received the book in-hand and was still pleased with his purchase. Only later did we both learn what it was. Under those circumstances if you don't agree that he was not entitled to a refund, then you are biased so bad that no matter what I do or say I can't win.

Regarding whomever it was above who continues to assert I did not answer their question, yes I did. I have never knowingly sold fake autographs AND everyone in the business who sells even half the number of books I sell HAS sold fakes accidentally.

Regarding the so called "fake" Obama's, you are absolutely wrong. President Obama and I met and he signed a Profiles in Courage and a To Kill a Mockingbird for me. Plus, that is backed up by GAI who I know has made mistakes. Anyone makes mistakes. All of you have made mistakes haven't you? The difference is that I live under the constant examination of hundreds if not thousands. This, while others sell fakes on eBay right now. One person David Wicks aka Thedustjacket sold over two million dollars of fakes on eBay four years ago. I helped get him removed after I sued him trying to help the entire industry. These facts seem to get no support from many of you.

To "The Manager", I am saddened and appalled that you would take a side and make a public statement about something you obviously know nothing about. Do you believe those who are bothered by such negativity would come to you? Of course not. They don't want the wrath of you nor your VERY small circle of people here. How many 'members' does this website have? Each time I look I see no more than 3 on-line at any time. I know for a fact that people have stopped coming because of the negativity and I know for a fact that major authors are ashamed of the actions/words of some here.

Regarding the Carrie currently on eBay. I respect the opinion of Hutch a great deal and have known him and done business with him for over 10 years. I looked at the pictures after enlarging them and I can see where the endpages seem to come out too far. That is an indication of new endpages. The book is at the office and I am at my home. I do not go to the office because I rarely live my home due to personal reasons. But, I will talk with both the person who listed this and my office manager tomorrow regarding this book. In the meantime I personally, three times (until I could figure out how to make it really BIG) have amended the eBay auction stating that someone has said that the endpages are replaced. Again, I do NOT get emails sent via email. I have asked a couple of times that if you want to reach me and not an employee, PLEASE email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com and I will personally respond.

Somewhere in these posts one or two people wrote that I personally responded to them via email. The subject they mention is news to me. My employees, especially my personal assistant, often uses my name to sign on my behalf and even uses my email account daily. The entire point of running a small company (thank you Jay for trying to explain to these people about running a small company but at least a couple still didn't understand nor should you if you don't run a company) is to attempt to give the personal touch and that includes employees signing the name of the owner. When I worked in DC secretaries signed for every Congressman I knew. You all do realize those letters you get from eBay are not actually signed by Meg Whitman nor her replacement....right?

Had it not been for the Carrie issue I would not of come here nor posted anything. I can see that no matter what I say or do, many of you have your minds made up and unfortunately, like the story of the To Kill a Mockingbird, your minds are made up over false, exaggerated or illogical reasoning. No person here can say they personally had a problem, asked for their money back and didn't get it right? Point made.
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

turtlex
01-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Mr Miller -

I'm not exactly sure who "Possum" is?

I sent the message above, via eBay, asking about the endpapers... and still haven't gotten a reponse to my eBay email account. I see that you put a response at the end of the long auction listing... Do you still consider this book to be the stated condition if that's the case regarding the replaced endpapers?!?

Just to clarify - Here at TDT, we currently have over 6500+ members.

As of right now - 19:18 on 01/17/2009 there are 26 members and 92 guests online.
Also as of right now - there are 14 members viewing Calvin's Corner alone.

All this information is available by viewing the forums.

Matt
01-17-2010, 05:08 PM
To "The Manager", I am saddened and appalled that you would take a side and make a public statement about something you obviously know nothing about. Do you believe those who are bothered by such negativity would come to you? Of course not. They don't want the wrath of you nor your VERY small circle of people here. How many 'members' does this website have? Each time I look I see no more than 3 on-line at any time. I know for a fact that people have stopped coming because of the negativity and I know for a fact that major authors are ashamed of the actions/words of some here.

Obviously I'll have to comment about this.

I am not sure where you are getting your information but the site has a very large amount of traffic on it. I do not think you are doing yourself a service by attacking it.

Our threads are monitored daily by a vast variety of management to make sure the community can be open and honest without personal insults. I think that has been accomplished here. I am sorry if you don't agree with some of the comments.

However, the fact remains that this is by far the most popular non official King fan site on the internet and the questions being asked are from devoted King fans that should have a place to air their grievances. :)

Hutch
01-17-2010, 06:36 PM
To Possum, Management and Others:



Regarding the Carrie currently on eBay. I respect the opinion of Hutch a great deal and have known him and done business with him for over 10 years. I looked at the pictures after enlarging them and I can see where the endpages seem to come out too far. That is an indication of new endpages.

Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

The telling point for me on the endpages is that the original endpages are clayback. Meaning the free endpages are black on one side and white on the other. In the auction the free endpages are black on both sides. Thus they are not original.

johnsmith87
01-17-2010, 07:05 PM
To "The Manager", I am saddened and appalled that you would take a side and make a public statement about something you obviously know nothing about. Do you believe those who are bothered by such negativity would come to you? Of course not. They don't want the wrath of you nor your VERY small circle of people here. How many 'members' does this website have? Each time I look I see no more than 3 on-line at any time. I know for a fact that people have stopped coming because of the negativity and I know for a fact that major authors are ashamed of the actions/words of some here.
Let me get this straight. This site is so insignificant and only has 3 members on at a time, yet "major authors" are browsing the forums and are ashamed of what they see? :wtf:

Patrick
01-17-2010, 09:39 PM
I appreciate that Mr. Miller posted his side of the TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD story, and also that he posted at all. Because however you or I might feel about various points in his post, it takes a lot of guts to return to a site where you and your company face clear animosity from some members.

Also, this is as good a time as any to mention that when members (staff or otherwise) post opinions, those opinions are their own and rarely represent the position of the site itself.

Timmy Miller
01-18-2010, 12:39 PM
To Matt:
There is no attack in the paragraph you copy and past there. In fact it is just the opposite. I was simply pointing out the obvious. If this is your personal website, then you have every right to state what you wish AND take a side of an issue. However, if you are truly a site for any portion of the general public, Stephen King fans in this case, it is considered inappropriate for the Owners and/or Managers of the site to take a position. Yet, you have here and you have yet to reply to my private email sent directly from my Outlook to your email account. Nothing I say in the paragraph is attacking. You are obviously sensitive to what is said which are STATEMENTS.

Now, how can YOU honestly say:

Our threads are monitored daily by a vast variety of management to make sure the community can be open and honest without personal insults. I think that has been accomplished here. I am sorry if you don't agree with some of the comments.

This Calvin's Corner is FULL of personal insults and lies about me and my company. I have also asked that especially the lies be removed. That was over a month ago and none of the lies have been removed. As for the "insults", even members here have posted to the fact that others have posted personal attacks. How can you say this???

As for the numbers you quote, I assure you that a site that has been up for so many years and has only 6500 members (which based on my experience and knowledge of the internet world) and less than 50 "active" members, that is not impressive. When I come here I can, as you say, see how many people are on-line. That number has never been larger than It was one of my original points that many people were members and have gone away. You still count those people as members right? As for people you say are currenly "on-line", do you count those who have not clicked or typed anything or even changed the page after five, ten even sixty minutes? If not, that means you are counting people who have the page open and not actually "on" the site. They have left the page up and could have dozens of other pages open at the same time or even watching tv or on the phone.....for hours. Right? Again, not attacking. I am just responding to your stats you give in your defensive reply to my statement.

FYI my site has 45,000 unique clients and over a million, unique visits each year. Those are people who have told me about this site and that they have left due to the negativity and illogic of a few of the people. Anyone involved with the internet for long knows that just a few, negative people can turn away hundreds and even thousands of people who want good information but don't want the taint of a few, negative people who have nothing better to do than state rumors, gossip and the like. That is what has happened here.

For the person who says I still have not answered their questions, I again ask that they email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com where I check my email regularly.
Sincerely,
Tim Miller

Timmy Miller
01-18-2010, 12:40 PM
FYI...Hutch is exactly right. I had forgotten about the one page, glued together, with one black side and one white side. I will again amend the auction and make sure the new buyer knows. For anyone here do NOT bid knowing this fact please.
Sincerely,
Tim Miller

turtlex
01-18-2010, 01:46 PM
Dude... that "active" members, that means that registered members were logged in at that time. :rolleyes:

Guess you didn't understand the lingo.

And 6500+ members for a site that's been online for about three years - and isn't a retail site, is damned impressive ... so you might want to check your experience and knowledge.

I'll let Matt respond to the rest of that... but just because someone questions you and your selling practices and history, that isn't a personal insult.

Daghain
01-18-2010, 02:22 PM
And Timmy, my name is DAGHAIN, not "The Manager". If you're going to call me out, dude, be a man about it. And yes, I'm still waiting for that list of offended people you keep talking about who have left the site due to "the negativity and uncollaborated attacks being made". Hell, I'll settle for ONE. And yeah, we'd know about it. Even if you ARE correct, bringing it up constantly is just sidestepping the real issue here - people are asking you to answer questions and all you're coming back with is comments about how all these claims against you are false and everyone is just plain wrong. Judging by the sheer number of them, however, I'm finding that REALLY hard to believe.

And as far as asking for all the "lies" to be taken off the site, this is a message board - anyone can post up their opinions here, and that's what they are - OPINIONS. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but no one is forcing you to keep trying to defend yourself, either. Sometimes it's better to walk away. Food for thought.

And that's pretty much my last opinion on the subject.

e_taylor
01-18-2010, 02:24 PM
I'll let Matt respond to the rest of that... but just because someone questions you and your selling practices and history, that isn't a personal insult.

Oh yes it is! After all, Timmy came and explained that people are very mean to him for no reason. That means those statements are untrue!

Simple fact, any message board such as this that has collectors of horror and small press books will have lots of negativity on the subject of businesses with poor customer service, quality and authenticity records. Case in point: Cemetery Dance, or FLATSIGNED.

A solution? Instead of coming to said message board and complaining that no one gives you a fair shake and that you are a good guy; not providing answers to the serious questions asked about you or your company; and resorting to attacking a fansite that couldn't care less if its successful by Timmy's standards - maybe these folks should focus on running their businesses properly.

Randall Flagg
01-18-2010, 02:31 PM
FYI...Hutch is exactly right. I had forgotten about the one page, glued together, with one black side and one white side. I will again amend the auction and make sure the new buyer knows. For anyone here do NOT bid knowing this fact please.
Sincerely,
Tim Miller
Apologies to our members for the delay in Tim's post being viewable for a brief period.
This post wasn't validated until minutes ago (The spam filter for the site blocks certain key words, links etc. from newer members).
It is nice to see an acknowledgment of the erroneous listing.
Thanks to Hutch for providing the irrefutable description.

turtlex
01-19-2010, 05:15 AM
Copying this to the Flatsigned Thread :


these are not the original endpages... they have been replaced.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-RARE-SIGNED-1st-CARRIE-Tabitha-Tabby-Book_W0QQitemZ380197620335QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item58858b4a6f


I sent a question through eBay asking about the end papers - wonder if he'll reply?


Dear Flatsigned - It appears that this book has had the endpapers replaced. The one's pictured here are not original. Your auction doesn't mention this fact. Please advise.

This is interesting... finally got a response from Flatsigned on my question :

The owner, another employee and I have all looked very closely at the book. The endpapers appear to all of us to be original. If they have been replaced, whoever did it, did an excellent job of replacing them. Thanks, Lucie

So, it looks like now Tim/Flatsigned is saying the end papers ARE original... or maybe a good replacement?

biomieg
01-19-2010, 06:08 AM
I must say I'm kind of amazed (in a negative sense) when I read this thread. Tim, I've never done business with you. I like to think of myself as being an openminded individual. But after reading your posts here, I will make sure never to get involved with Flatsigned in any way. Not because I let myself guide by the comments and judgments of others, but because you come across as a very paranoid and defensive individual.

Surely, you must understand that you are communicating with potential customers every time you post on this forum? I must say, you are not doing a good job of representing your company and yourself. Your lengthy defensive posts, and all the sidestepping of serious questions asked by respected members of the book-collecting-community paint a picture of someone I wouldn't want to buy books from. And that's too bad, because I depend on the Internet entirely for the growth and development of my English-language book collection, so the chances are high I would have purchased something from you sooner or later. Ain't gonna happen now, sorry.

e_taylor
01-19-2010, 07:09 AM
Copying this to the Flatsigned Thread :


these are not the original endpages... they have been replaced.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-RARE-SIGNED-1st-CARRIE-Tabitha-Tabby-Book_W0QQitemZ380197620335QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item58858b4a6f


I sent a question through eBay asking about the end papers - wonder if he'll reply?


Dear Flatsigned - It appears that this book has had the endpapers replaced. The one's pictured here are not original. Your auction doesn't mention this fact. Please advise.

This is interesting... finally got a response from Flatsigned on my question :

The owner, another employee and I have all looked very closely at the book. The endpapers appear to all of us to be original. If they have been replaced, whoever did it, did an excellent job of replacing them. Thanks, Lucie

So, it looks like now Tim/Flatsigned is saying the end papers ARE original... or maybe a good replacement?

But I thought everyone signed emails as Tim Miller for a more personal touch. Who's Lucie? Oh, I know - someone hacked into Timmy's ebay account to make him look bad - that explains it!

Matt
01-19-2010, 07:19 AM
To Matt:
There is no attack in the paragraph you copy and past there. In fact it is just the opposite. I was simply pointing out the obvious. If this is your personal website, then you have every right to state what you wish AND take a side of an issue. However, if you are truly a site for any portion of the general public, Stephen King fans in this case, it is considered inappropriate for the Owners and/or Managers of the site to take a position. Yet, you have here and you have yet to reply to my private email sent directly from my Outlook to your email account. Nothing I say in the paragraph is attacking. You are obviously sensitive to what is said which are STATEMENTS.

Now, how can YOU honestly say:

Our threads are monitored daily by a vast variety of management to make sure the community can be open and honest without personal insults. I think that has been accomplished here. I am sorry if you don't agree with some of the comments.

This Calvin's Corner is FULL of personal insults and lies about me and my company. I have also asked that especially the lies be removed. That was over a month ago and none of the lies have been removed. As for the "insults", even members here have posted to the fact that others have posted personal attacks. How can you say this???

As for the numbers you quote, I assure you that a site that has been up for so many years and has only 6500 members (which based on my experience and knowledge of the internet world) and less than 50 "active" members, that is not impressive. When I come here I can, as you say, see how many people are on-line. That number has never been larger than It was one of my original points that many people were members and have gone away. You still count those people as members right? As for people you say are currenly "on-line", do you count those who have not clicked or typed anything or even changed the page after five, ten even sixty minutes? If not, that means you are counting people who have the page open and not actually "on" the site. They have left the page up and could have dozens of other pages open at the same time or even watching tv or on the phone.....for hours. Right? Again, not attacking. I am just responding to your stats you give in your defensive reply to my statement.

FYI my site has 45,000 unique clients and over a million, unique visits each year. Those are people who have told me about this site and that they have left due to the negativity and illogic of a few of the people. Anyone involved with the internet for long knows that just a few, negative people can turn away hundreds and even thousands of people who want good information but don't want the taint of a few, negative people who have nothing better to do than state rumors, gossip and the like. That is what has happened here.

For the person who says I still have not answered their questions, I again ask that they email me at timmiller@flatsigned.com where I check my email regularly.
Sincerely,
Tim Miller

I don't see any reason to get into a war of words with you Tim. You are free to express your opinion like everyone else on this site. Its like you want us to allow you to say anything you like but not offer that benefit to others.

I appreciate the website class but I assure you I know how they work and I won't bore you with the amount of unique hits this site takes in a month but I will say it is much more than your number for the year. :)

You took what I said completely out of context in your first bit but seemed to get it in the end. I have read this thread and I do not think you or your company has been personally insulted. Neither does the rest of our staff who is by majority non collectors and has no personal stake in the conversation.

So the posts will remain, you are welcome to stop by anytime and post an explanation if you like. You are also welcome to consider the site small fish reguardless of what we have accomplished.

And by the way, the site is not yet 3 years old. Not sure how long you think we he have been around, maybe you are thinking of thedarktower.net.

lophophoras
01-19-2010, 07:57 AM
I must say I'm kind of amazed (in a negative sense) when I read this thread. Tim, I've never done business with you. I like to think of myself as being an openminded individual. But after reading your posts here, I will make sure never to get involved with Flatsigned in any way. Not because I let myself guide by the comments and judgments of others, but because you come across as a very paranoid and defensive individual.

Surely, you must understand that you are communicating with potential customers every time you post on this forum? I must say, you are not doing a good job of representing your company and yourself. Your lengthy defensive posts, and all the sidestepping of serious questions asked by respected members of the book-collecting-community paint a picture of someone I wouldn't want to buy books from. And that's too bad, because I depend on the Internet entirely for the growth and development of my English-language book collection, so the chances are high I would have purchased something from you sooner or later. Ain't gonna happen now, sorry.

I have a feeling that he lost quite a few possible sales because of his posts here.

I most certainly won't consider doing business with him again.

Cloysterpete
01-19-2010, 10:22 AM
Me either, I've never bought from flat-signed and never will, it's just one thing after another isn't it, if it's not questionable Obama books it's questionable endpapers it's.......

It just goes on and on. How can I have any faith in you or your company when half the time there is some controversy over a book/misleading description/schill bidding it's flat-signed thats involved. Are you saying it's some kind of massive conspiracy against you by members of this site?. Get real.

As for all that nonsense about major authors and loads of your customers having left the site because of the attitude and comments of the members......well your just making that up aren't you. No really Tim, you are.

I have read Calvin's Corner on this site everyday now since I joined two years ago, while I don't post much I do A LOT of reading in this part of the forum, In all that time I can recall only one heated discussion which only came about because said members wasn't available to set the record straight right away.

Anyway thats the main reason why I posted, I enjoy this site a lot and I don't think it's right for you to come on here and make blatantly false statements just because your arguments don't hold much weight with most members here .

Hutch
01-19-2010, 11:29 AM
For this last episode originally my post was in the BS thread, someone else moved it to this Flatsigned thread. I intentionally posted a link to the auction without identifying the seller.

Secondly, I am a strong believer that all collectors should educate themselves on potential acquisitions as much as possible and this site is a tool that can help in the acquisition process whether before or after acquisition.

Third and lastly, without Flatsigned's large quantity of images in this auction I would have never seen what was obvious to me and what may have slipped by others....That's why I posted the anonymous link. I commend them on the quantity of images posted. There is a strong possibility that the book in question is an ex-library book and that somewhere along the line the endpages were replaced and if any pages were stamped they may have been removed and clean unstamped pages may have been tipped in. (you should also note that the very edge of the dust jacket rear flap appears to have been trimmed full length right to the edge of the text probably to remove any glue stains) Flatsigned moves a large volume of books and some things will slip through the cracks. I think their return policy is a strong one and they do stand by it. This leads me back to point two, as a buyer educate yourself as much as possible, ask questions. With perhaps a bit more focus toward any large volume seller.

Rahfa
01-19-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm not taking Flatsigned's 'side' in all this...but I will say that, speaking as an ebay seller, there is a point where it's borderline harrasment to ask questions about a listing that you have no intention of bidding on. I know we do that with fake sigs, but for some reason this seems different to me. I think the motivation is in the right place, but when it gets into the 'groupthink' mentality, it takes a bad turn.

The auction in question is clearly a legit signature, and that's where the value comes from...I'm really not sure the replaced end papers change the value up or down...I suppose a little down.

I totally agree that Tim's responses here haven't been very productive...I don't know why he would use the "I didn't say that; somebody used my name" response...that doesn't sound anything but sketchy. But, whatever...it's his rep, not mine.

But...I kind of think if somebody here actually plans to bid on a FS item and wants advice on it, then it's obviosuly totally fine to post and have a back and forth about it...but if it's people just asking questions so they can critique him here, and nobody has any intention to ever buy it, than I guess I don't really see the point. It sort of veers into being a little meanspirited. Again - I totally agree with the motivation behind it! Just maybe not the execution.

And - sorry, Tim - Flatsigned's posts here are sort of doing a good job of making himself look kind of sketchy without any help from those of us here, so any further badgering is sort of redundant...

This is just my opinion, though...I certainly have no moral opposition to anything going on or that's been said. I just sort of feel bad, even with all the questions of reputation, etc...Like I've said, I've sold to FS, and it was a perfectly legit, easy transaction, and later I've seen one of the same books get sold for a pretty minimal profit. So, while I get people's suspicions about FS, I agree with Hutch that people need to do their own work if they want to collect stuff. The people HERE on THIS site know the deal, and probably aren't buying from FS. Point made, move on! Haha...

Dolan
01-19-2010, 09:38 PM
The auction in question is clearly a legit signature, and that's where the value comes from...I'm really not sure the replaced end papers change the value up or down...I suppose a little down.

For me, it's more about that the endpapers weren't addressed in the auction site that is the issue. When you fail to mention something like that, it looks like you are deliberately hiding something which leads me, a consumer, to not trust the seller.

And if you can do that once or twice... who's to say it doesn't happen once or twice a week?

biomieg
01-20-2010, 12:01 AM
I agree with you Rahfa and I totally understand how 'seller harrassment' could lead to Tim feeling as if everbody is lining up against him. That's why I stated I won't let myself guide by other's judgments. It's the posts by Tim himself that made me wary of ever doing business with him. I hope that, reading this, he realizes that as a businessman he's not in the position to let himself guide by his emotions on a public forum.

Calla_Wolf
01-20-2010, 02:25 AM
The auction in question is clearly a legit signature, and that's where the value comes from...I'm really not sure the replaced end papers change the value up or down...I suppose a little down.

For me, it's more about that the endpapers weren't addressed in the auction site that is the issue. When you fail to mention something like that, it looks like you are deliberately hiding something which leads me, a consumer, to not trust the seller.

And if you can do that once or twice... who's to say it doesn't happen once or twice a week?

But as hutch said, it is the BUYER's responsibility to know what he/she is buying. Tim is NOT a Stephen King expert, he's a book seller. In fact, if Hutch hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't have noticed, known nor (if I'd won the auction) cared.

There HAS to be a degree of responsibility on the buyer to know the facts before bidding. how many times have we watched with incredulity as an obvious fake is bid up and up and up. Who's fault is it? the seller's, for listing a fake? Of course. But is the buyer blameless??? Absolutely not.

The perfect example is JKRowling. She's publicly said that 80 to 90% of signed Harry Potter books are fakes......but how many 'signed' Harry Potter books do you see without bids?

Tim's (and Tim's staff's) use of the English language is poor. Tim's statements here are rambling and, at times, incoherent. BUT I think there has to be some acknowledgement of buyer responsibility before the bashing starts.

As I've said before, I've bought from him, have always been satisfied, and I know his returns policy is excellent (Waterstones and Cemetary Dance take note). I personally believe he artificially raises the prices on his books, but as I would never bid higher than market value, it doesn't affect me. If a buyer is willing to pay $700 for a $500, well done Tim. If he lists an SK fake and I or Hutch or someone he trusts TELL him it's a fake, that fake is pulled. Again, I don't have a problem with that.